Author Topic: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...  (Read 14394 times)

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

"Ignorance" probabily, the story and characters are fine, I am talking about the mechs specifically....this the response I would get from really young people, which falls into the "fan" category, they get so blind by a series that fail to realize certain obvious things...(read below please, I won't explain this again)

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They're basically invincible because of their AT fields

Which argument do you have that proves they are invincible with the AT field activated ?

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Please, people quit doing fan's comments, I won't explain this again: basically everything started with Super Robot, any japanese mech correspond that have an animated series and even Mangas (Getter/Mazinger/Gundam/Evangelion/etc.),  is soon or later included in SR, this is basic knowledge to talk about mechs from different series, and specifically make a comparation of mechs overall specs, abilities and skills:







Basically all japanese mechs are "shared" and linked by SR binds, don't you think I have already made a battle simulation power comparison, but I am afraid I am afraid that experience it's surely nothing compared about some affirmations without arguments...

And no, the AT field don't make the mech invincible, is just another illusion created by fans...the AT field just works as a shield (it can be destroyed), a erratic version of a shield since it doesn't always work well, considering your mech invincible because it has an active AT field would surely take you to a certain defeat (and death)...

So, please kids, remember to do your homework....I am just pissed of fans which say "I see the entire series, so I know everything about it". I am not a fan, it doesn't mean I am unable to know which mechs from which series are the strongest among all of them, evas are good at some point and worse at many others, specially space since they were never desingned for that use....
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 10:24:53 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Frankly I wouldn't take Super Robot as a fair comparison either. (In fact, I wouldn't even try and treat it as canonical at all. It screws up too many things, and must.) Besides, why bother when you can kill it on pure tactics?

The five-minute time limit means an EVA is basically doomed against anything capable of flight and posessing a pilot with half a brain and a basic understanding of the EVA's functioning. You can either sever the power cable or track it back to the generator and blast that; doesn't really matter either way. Then it's a simple matter of outdistancing the EVA and waiting five minutes.
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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(In fact, I wouldn't even try and treat it as canonical at all. It screws up too many things, and must.)

It's not canonical, I said not to the characters and story, I am talking about mechs specifically, basically this was later used for making Marvel vs. Capcom, see where is there is no real canon in MvC...also Namco does the same with it's RPG series nemed "Tales"

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Frankly I wouldn't take Super Robot as a fair comparison either

Yes, I would, models, skills, weapons and story are licenssed and everything which appears is not like Banpresto just create them, and even if they would want they can't , it would be against the license, most EMP would surely disrupt most robots from another series, but while Evas are not really mechanical at all, they have that adventage, specially in berserker mode.

Super Robot doesn't screw it, it just gives the same mission which happens at "xxxx" series, and makes add to let you use robots from another series in that battle, but the story, scenaries, and characters are the same...SR was never designed with the intention of screwing anything, barely later after you have passed over the original stories of mech's anime, add some exclusive really powerful enemy that all mech's will end fightning. Aside from that SR has it own "Original Generation" which is the exclusive story of SR with robots from SR series but not any other, so if they want to do some drastic they do it in there, they don't have any necessity of screwing anything...the point of SR is that you can see and play most (if not all) of the events that happen in mech's series with some addition, screwing the story would just be the opposite...

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The five-minute time limit means an EVA is basically doomed against anything capable of flight and posessing a pilot with half a brain and a basic understanding of the EVA's functioning. You can either sever the power cable or track it back to the generator and blast that; doesn't really matter either way. Then it's a simple matter of outdistancing the EVA and waiting five minutes.

The 5 minutes limits is only true after the start of the Eva series, there have been many ways to extend this, the Nuclear reator and what happens with Eva 01 at the very end of evangelion, not only that but if they go berserker they don't really need a power supply. The difference is that many other mech series like Gundam have robot's specs, usually gundam's source of energy is a ultracompact nuclear fission reactor with specific power output rated xx, that means their power source is enough for long time, much more than a battle...

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Besides, why bother when you can kill it on pure tactics?

If it goes berserker you're dead, mechs suffers transformation along series, this the Eva 01 case, as the series progress those weak points are usually improved...reliying on the enemy weakness isn't a good way of destroy it and prove xxxx mech is better, because if you're wrong then you're death...aside that you're talking about "kill" something which is stopped and has no movement, is that the case, then take that mech for you, don't waste it...
Even if another mech can fly Evas have really good additional long-range weapons, so it would be safer to be near it than away from it, there aren't much good close range weapons for evas...

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The conclusion is simple, Evas are limited in Boosters, hand-to-hand beam weapons, and high-energy guns all due to the lack of a good energy source, like a nuclear reactor. That's the only main and worst point with other mechs, any other difference is not really important at all to consider then worse...

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There is nothing more really to talk here, Evas lack from an energy source and so their performance is really halved, people can accept it or just free to believe whatever they like, it's everyone opinnion, but respect other opinnions, I'll just be reasonable and comprensive with someone who treats me the same way (do someone get the word reciprocal respect), I am satisficied because I know which ones are more reliable in a fight...and I have nothing wrong against Evangelion or any other series (but yes I really like the story, is very different from any other mech series)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 11:42:35 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Hm, this is starting to sound like Star Wars vs Star Trek :doubt:... Anyways, I'm not well versed in anime robot stats neither am I some mindless Eva fanboy. I was under the impression that AT fields couldn't be damaged by conventional weapons since the UN could never kill them, even with nukes. (Although now that I think about it, the N2 mines hurt them a little bit so they're not completely invincible) Still, the only things to ever seriously hurt or kill Evas or Angels were other Evas and Angels. I also remember when that Angel was going to crash down onto NERV HQ from orbit, Misato was thinking to herself that even though the entire city and HQ underground would be destroyed, the Evas would somehow survive. Finally, when it comes to hand to hand combat I'm a fan of Gundam energy swords as much as the next guy, but an Eva tearing out something's organs and muscles with it's bare hands is just hardcore :D.
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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AT fields couldn't be damaged by conventional weapons since the UN could never kill them

This is right, but Evas could damage Angels, because in this case is like a Shield technology, the AT Field is just the "Absolute Terror" field (do you see why I do this mechs goes more into fantasy), however yes, a Gundam would surely be vaporized if he get's near a sun, or suffer too much heat, energy shield's are almost non-existant in Gundam (there are some exceptions), the AT Field is a great adventage that Evas and Angels have, however yes there are other mechs which also have this kind of feature (not gundams).

Aside from this, this is because a Nuke thens to do more spread damage than a Beam, again Evangelion wasn't too developed to have those weapons, that's until the Plasma Rifle is introduced, if you check that out the energy was so focused in one point, that it ends piercing the Angel...

In Evangelion, humans also have an AT Field, barely is like the aura, basically somekind of one's energy, and as an energy it is you can run out of it, so in this case you can consider Shinji somewhat has super powers, if you would have placed another pilot, it's Sync would have been really low and not even be able to control the Eva and use properly it's AT field....

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Gundam energy swords as much as the next guy, but an Eva tearing out something's organs and muscles with it's bare hands is just hardcore Big grin.

It is... :lol: (if you like that part, XenoGears has some good ones like that, you just get an impression like: do it needeed to be too grotesque and bizarre?)


 

Offline redsniper

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
(do you see why I do this mechs goes more into fantasy)
True. I'll be the first to admit that an Eva doesn't seem like something that could actually exist... but I still want to drive one to school.
(that is sig material if I do say so myself, but who am I to judge?)
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The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
SR has to nerf a lot of the participants. Because let's face it, getting instantly annihilated by the UBERCANNONTHINGIEOFDOOM!!! (yes, it has to be said that way!) sucks. Whether it's a twin buster buster rifle, a satellite cannon, or the Main Gun, the death-instant-and-without-recourse shot is alive and well. And it tends to murder gameplay.

I try to block out the berserk, because it escaped from Copoutland, Plotdevica. Nonetheless, you have a point on that. Still and all, when you get right down to it an EVA has only two basic advantages: its control system (direct neural; you are the EVA, the EVA is you, with the vastly greater agility and fine control that grants), and sheer physical size (at a minimum of 80 feet, the EVAs tower over most designs). Neither of those are strictly unique. Everything else is a question mark.

EVA really only made two descents into total impossiblity; AT-Fields and the berserk mode.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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Whether it's a twin buster buster rifle, a satellite cannon, or the Main Gun, the death-instant-and-without-recourse shot is alive and well. And it tends to murder gameplay.

The Twin-buster Rifle correspond to the Gundam W, the satellite cannon could be the Libra (Installation) main gun, though the true Satellite Cannon was used in the Gundam XX (Double X), the Eva 01 was able to use the Plasma Rifle which is one of the most powerful I have seen for mech, do somoeone noticed that the Eva's Plasma Rifle (that kind of guitar weapon) is used in Armored Core, I believe AC copy it and not the opposite.

Again those weapons are powerful, but they aren't the strongest, those are weapons to be feared by something with no evasion, which can't move, as you see the Plasma Rifle is used over an Angel with the position was start, in Gundam the Installations have problems with this...but again that's because they can't move...

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(at a minimum of 80 feet, the EVAs tower over most designs). Neither of those are strictly unique. Everything else is a question mark.

Gundams are around 16.7 meters in height.....

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I have something to post about Evangelion, which will bring a sensation of pain to much people, it's not my fault, but again it's something that people would prefer to not known until the last moment and they have no other choice than facing a future true...

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
EVA really only made two descents into total impossiblity; AT-Fields and the berserk mode.
Well, as Evas are somewhat technically alive, going Beserk and ripping everything within a 20-mile radius to shreds isn't all that unbelievable... of course, a beserk Eva isn't exactly going to engage in any sort of tactics, so an opponent would definitely be able to use that to their advantage when facing down the 20-story behemoth...

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
yeah, basically the impossible or unbeliavable is that they are alive, being alive is more than enough to justify they can go berseker...

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Eva were designed to fight against Angels, basically because they have an AT field like the Angels, so the technology and power is at the very same level, again a "machine" (or a normal mech) doesn't have an AT field, so that simply means what Eva and Angels are......they are alive, otherwise it's impossible to have an AT field

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
look, you can't compare, Evas basicly incorperate magical force feilds that can only be countered by another magical foce feild.
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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Hm, this is starting to sound like Star Wars vs Star Trek ... Anyway

That's why SR exists, it clears many doubts about and pilot's skills and mech's specs, is not something about "hey this is better", in overall they are all cool, eva's desing specially the Eva 01 head looks damn good in the desing, even when it is not moving it looks like it is alive and ready to eat you, there's not something to be really fightning for...it's just official reference from SR, not a fan's invention...just some knowledge with a basis in a official argument...

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look, you can't compare, Evas basicly incorperate magical force feilds that can only be countered by another magical foce feild.

A - I was avoiding saying "Magical Force Field", I wrote "fantasy" but well...I bet if I ended writing "Magical Force Field" people would just kill me, but yes between calling it Absolute Terror Field and the other there isn't much difference about how it works, but AT sounds much better

B - No, the Plasma Rifle seems to have so much power (all Japan energy generators) and was able to destroy the Angel, that just tells you that it's power doesn't come from the AT Field but energy that can be generated artificially by humans....so it's not true that they are invincible except against something with an AT field
There are many other series which works with "magic" that are older in SR, "magic" means "magic", it doesn't mean something "magical" is "invincible", just that it's supposed to be unnusual and out of our actual "knowledge"...

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you can't compare

It's not me comparing, it's SR, it was much decades ago than Eva was released so...like Kunio Okawara, Hajime Katoki, Koichi Tokita which are Gundam W main mech's designers have giving the go to the overall specs in SR, also NGE mech's designers (Yamashi-ta Ikuto and creator Anno Hideaki) must have act the same, the Eva's are their creations, if they let use them for SR they will surely won't let anyone else screw their specs.

There is no real point in creating something "invincible", where would be the fun if you produce something like a ship which is "invincible" ?, I bet most people would just hate to by piloting and invincible ship or mecha...you can just try it in FS2 hack the TBLs and see how fun is to fight with something which can't be destroyed...besides if a mech designer made something which is invincible, which would he desing later a "super-invincible" Class ship/mecha ?

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It seems there will produced (by Richard Taylor) an US version Live Action Movie of "Neon Genesis Evangelion" (Shin Seiki Evangelion) that will be finished in later 2006. NGE movie will take place in New York, not in Tokyo, just because the placement of all the needed resources would be harder, one of the companies involved is WETA, which was the company involved for making the effects in LOTR, it is still don't well know if the characters will be done through CG (3D) or will be actors:

**Announcement in Japanese at Gainax Official Web Site (In Japanese):

http://www.gainax.co.jp/anime/eva/hollywood.html

**Interview with Richard Taylor (Producer):

http://eva.trivialbeing.net/

**IMDb entry (Earth's Biggest Movie Database):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0400911/

**WETA Project:

http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/projects/filmography/film/neon_genesis

**WETA Filmography (galleries):

http://www.wetaworkshop.co.nz/projects/filmography/galleries/neon_genesis

**If you select the Angel names here you'll see some of the Human versions that Gainax designed (like the Angel 17, Tabris):

http://www.gainax.co.jp/goods/angel_xx/01.html

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It seems that the company in charge says they will try to keep stick to the original NGE as most as possible, however NGE story takes place in 26 chapters of 30 minutes each, and 2 movies, it will be hard to show a true more real version of NGE with just 2 hours of video. The opinnions of most fans is just that if this goes out too much of the canon story it will be really bad for NGE, though Gainax seems to have no problem with it taking place in New York and not Tokio...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 11:25:48 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline ZylonBane

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

"Ignorance" probabily, the story and characters are fine, I am talking about the mechs specifically....this the response I would get from really young people, which falls into the "fan" category, they get so blind by a series that fail to realize certain obvious things...

No, now I'm certain it's because you're exactly the sort of pimply-face hentai-hoarding otaku who will go on and on and on and on with moronic, irrelevant comparisons of completely different fictional universes as if anyone besides yourself (and similarly pathetic people) gives a ****.

Jesus christ, just shut up already.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
This is pointless...

For any vs. scenario one can have multiple reults, since there are no definite comparisons in power..

For instacne, I can say the SDF-1 would pawn everything - it's absolutely uber-massive, has hunderds of mecha, turrets and launchers at it's disposal, and let's not forget hte main gun and the defense field...

Of course, that's assuming the Main Gun can pierce an Eva AT field..

Or I can say that Escaflowne can pawn the SDF-1! How you ask? It simply teleports INSIDE, where all  it's firepower is sueless and trashes the generator, then bugs out.

Of course, there are allso a lot of assumptions here - there allways willl be when comparing different, not enough documented universes...
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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No, now I'm certain it's because you're exactly the sort of pimply-face hentai-hoarding otaku who will go on and on and on and on with moronic, irrelevant comparisons of completely different fictional universes as if anyone besides yourself (and similarly pathetic people) gives a ****.

Jesus christ, just shut up already.

no, I don't even have a chapter of any anime series, I don't even know well their names, and I don't posses nothing to be defined as an Otaku, again your argument is random and senseless to define me, and the expression "anyone besides yourself" can be used for anyone and anything, I already said it, the mech's designer's care as they agree to give and sell the licenses, you can freely talk about me, but all series, like NGE and mech's weren't created spontaneously, it means a lot of work to their creators, at least have some respect to their creators if you at least respect NGE, though it is said that if you know what the word Otaku means you're half the way to it (not in my opinnion...)

I don't care for a comparison, as you shouln't really have cared for my post, everything started with this:

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originally posted by ngtmr1:

I gave up on NGE when I found out an Eva could only run for about 5 minutes without an external power source. So, that was...years before I even saw an episode.

then, my post:

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This is true, an Eva can even't fly and can't really match another robots specs from another series (except for the Eva 01 with wings), not only that but they aren't really mechanical, so they go more into "fantasy" section...

then yours ZylonBane:

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Originally posted by ZylonBane:

I'm not sure why exactly, but this paragraph makes me want to cockpunch you.

If "anyone besides myself" care for a comparison, then why do you want to "cockpunch me", it doesn't affect you as you say, as I am the only who "I care" for it, so why...there must be something else that you have tell me that makes a vague explanation about why do you reacted that way to my opinnion...

I bet you were waiting for a "thank you" after that post, I can only say that I am sorry and I apologize, but it won't hurt anyone if you try to be kind, better than saying "Jesus christ, just shut up already.", but if it makes you happy to treat people like this, I won't post again here, some people needs that to be happy...

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This is pointless...

It is, I have never the intention to go into a SR comparison...it was just an opinnion, everything started up there in those posts...

Please people focus in NGE, as this thread was meant to talk about it, I am truly sorry and apologyze to all of you, it's my complete fault for going off-thread (even if the mechs are related by SR and the license of their creators...)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 10:09:25 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
you know that both she and the evas are basicly Shinji's mother, right?

adds a whole new layer of fuct don't it?

Been a while since I saw it, but IIRC Rei was a part of Lillin (sp? The **** downstairs in the basement, Adam was in Gendou's hand) - didn't have anything to do with Shinji's mother.

On the other hand, EVA 01 had a lot to do with his mother.

At any rate, Rei is more or less of a jailbait people's fantasy, then again so's Asuka.

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Been a while since I saw it, but IIRC Rei was a part of Lillin (sp? The **** downstairs in the basement, Adam was in Gendou's hand) - didn't have anything to do with Shinji's mother.

On the other hand, EVA 01 had a lot to do with his mother.

At any rate, Rei is more or less of a jailbait people's fantasy, then again so's Asuka.
If I remember correctly, I believe it was Lilith that was in the basement, while Humanity was referred to as the Lillen.

Also, I think the Evas all had a human soul in them, and inside Unit 01 was the soul of Shinji's mum.

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Okay...I'll try to translate this:

Long ago God created the world. To populate it God created a man and a woman to his resemblance, they were Adam and Lilith (**), but Lilith and Adam relationship was very bad, always fightning, so one day God was angry for this, so God expelled Lilith for this, and enclose her in a isolated island.
God created Eva, and her and Adam relationship was good, but God put a trail for them (the forbidden apple) and as they didn't fulfil it, God expelled them from paradise.
Time later Adam feel guilty for the imprison of Lilith in that island, so he decided to go search for her to the Earth (in the era of dinosaurs), but why so bad luck that he collide against the Earth while he was landing and he made the 1st Impact.

(**) Lilith is from the original bible, but was removed for some reason (unknown to me)

Time later, Seele (a secret organization) found the "Manuscript of the Dead Sea", which explain the history of humanity, so they were for Lilith and captured her, after this they wanted to capture Adam which was aspleep in the North Pole...but humans don't only wanted to capture him, if not maniulate him and send him back to his embryonary state, with this the human race could forge it's own destiny.
But God don't like that human disobey about their ownr destiny, and they God punished them by provoke the anger of Adam, which spreads all of his energy into the Earth, producing the 2nd Impact.

As God see that human race wasn't disposed to change, God's second punishement was to empty the room of Gauf, a room which contains all of the human's souls (***), for so every child who was born after that date (or time) woulnd't have a soul.

(***) In Judaism, the number of souls is not infinite, so between time to time God refill it again

That means that neither Shinji or Asuka posses a soul, the only exception is Rei Ayanami, as the human race won't have souls, humans decided to create one, and they implant it to Rei, which is the only vessel with a soul that haves only 14 years. That's why the Evas need to have a Soul, to complete the one imcomplete souls of the pilots

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I translated this from one of my sources (it may have some errors), this is just a fragment at that takes place on the beginning of NGE, I can post all of if someone (or "anyone besides me") is interested...

 

Offline Ulala

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
*shrugs* I just watched the end of.. movie (I had seen the series, but never bothered watching the end), and maybe I'm just not cultured enough or something, but all I have to say about it is:  :wtf:
I am a revolutionary.

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
True. But, you've got to admit, it's damned cool right up until Seele initiates 3rd Impact.