Author Topic: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...  (Read 14391 times)

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...

I know, and I want to see it, the problem was that almost a week before it was starting to be broadcasted in my country, everyone started to hype it like NGE, and my judgement over the series was already too distorted to enjoy or understand the series, so I choose to let time pass and calm down before see it (it's a shame that now no one broadcast it).

Regarding your question of the Escaflowne, I think it was never introduced to SR, at least I haven't see it, the point is that even if it can teletransport it would never know where the generator is located in a ship about 1100 meters long, and even if so it may depend on it's internal structure which is mostly unknown, the Macross is considered as a base (mother ship) more than a mech, that means every ship that it transport is considered as a extra unit.

-----------------------------------

Some info regarding Anno Hideaki (NGE's creator), it maybe a little long, but believe me it's a summary:

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1 - The creator/director, Hideaki Anno, suffered from a long period of depression prior to creating Evangelion; much of the show is based on his own experiences in dealing with depression and in psychoanalytic theory he learned from his psychotherapy. As a result, characters in the anime display a variety of mood disorders and problems with emotional health, especially depression, trauma, and separation anxiety disorder.

2 - Different endings:

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After the ending of the TV series, Gainax and Hideaki Anno received numerous letters and emails from fans, both congratulating and criticizing the last two episodes. Among these were death threats and letters of disappointment from fans who thought Anno had ruined the series for them. Prompted by these responses, Gainax launched the project to create a movie with a "proper" ending for the series in 1997. Due to scheduling difficulties, they released Death and Rebirth consisting of a character-based recap of the entire series (Death) and half of the "proper" ending to Evangelion (Rebirth). The project was completed later in the year, and contained the complete section of Rebirth, i.e. End of Evangelion(...)
(...)Despite the success of End of Evangelion, its ending was considered controversial by many fans. Some believe that it was a manifestation of Anno's frustrations with the fan culture that attacked his original ending, and used End of Evangelion as revenge against those. Others have argued that Anno intended End of Evangelion to be the proper climax all along but that he was unable to show it because of budget restraint and television content laws. One other theory that is not commonly talked about is it was to supplement the last two episodes; some believe the last two episodes occur in Shinji’s mind, while the movie showed the events occurring to the world. Many have come to the conclusion that it will be up to the viewer to decide the finale, as everyone has different interpretations.(...)
(...)On the other hand there is some evidence that Anno's frustrations began earlier than End of Evangelion, and that this film was the culmination of a growing anger as evidenced by the sudden shift in tone around episode 16. (It is also worth noting here that in this episode the Angels were going to speak to Shinji, but the creative team dropped this in favor of a more original concept in which the Angel shows Shinji various images within his mind, while he 'talks' to himself.) Several sources (interview with Kazuya Tsurumaki, interview with Hiroki Azuma) seem to indicate that although Evangelion was sketchily pre-planned, the story details were open to alteration, possibly for the purpose of adapting to audience demands or more likely (regarding Anno's tastes and fights with sponsors) free directorial decision making. The shift in tone and style corresponded with a shift in Anno's worldview that would lead him to abandon the "otaku lifestyle" and temporarily leave anime for live action film making. He made his live-action debut with "Love and Pop" in 1998 (posters were designed by longtime collaborator Yoshiyuki Sadamoto), then went back to animation with the 26-episode "His and Her Circumstances", then made the live-action "Shiki-Jistu" in 2001 (which used brief pieces of animation in key scenes), and was uninvolved with animation until his participation in supervising (but not directing) the 2004 Cutey Honey OAV Project.

"death threats", why do some fans never cease to amaze me ? (this is not the worse thing that happened regarding NGE, it was much worse than this...if I could just find the article now...)

If I would have to look back, and choose which anime series is the one who really leaves me with less knowledge of all, I would choose NGE...barely all that you may learn from it, just applies to it and not anything more, not even a similar series...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 11:48:44 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
"If I would have to look back, and choose which anime series is the one who really leaves me with less knowledge of all, I would choose NGE"

Evangelion: the anime that leaves you srupider than it found you.
:lol:
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Quote
Evangelion: the anime that leaves you srupider than it found you.

Oh no, what I was trying to write?, proof that it's starting to make effect on me. :lol:. Mech series don't find me, I am not lucky enough, so I am always searching them...
Well knowledge can lead human race to salvation and destruction, at some point specific "knowledge" will lead some humans to take stupid actions. What I try to say (and failed) is that the knowledge that NGE could give any spectator is worthless for anything else (useless for anything besides NGE)...

Maybe I should have wrote "...and which anime series is the one which leaves me with useless knowledge, I would choose NGE..."

--------------------------------------------

Here is that article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Tsuchida

I don't want to make a joke of this (no one wants), but it is true NGE is so weird and gives so little info or knowledge that just some people go berserker, and after that they reach the limit point of human stupidity...in some cases is just people fighting, in some other are "dead threats", and in this case was a tragedy.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
makes me think of a funny situation I can visualise with a frend of mine:

frend:Bahka!
me:...Otaku
frend:...wha...what did you just call me?
me:otaku.
frend::mad: your pronounceing it wrong! there is no hard vowel sound in Ja/*cut off*/
me:I rest my case.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I seen al lthe series episodes, but still wan't clear with the Evangelion storyline..


After reading the last few posts things have become clearer.

I now officially want to change my oppinion - Scientology actually might have a better story than this!
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
After reading this entire thread...  :wtf:

*snipped for great justice*


What. The. ****. That is the most messed up bull**** I have ever heard.


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Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...


Double :wtf:. That's just....what the hell?

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...

Bah! Trigun deserves that title...
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
No way, Macross FTW!

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Quote
I seen al lthe series episodes, but still wan't clear with the Evangelion storyline..


After reading the last few posts things have become clearer.

I now officially want to change my oppinion - Scientology actually might have a better story than this!

:lol:

----------------------------------------

Quote
Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...

No, it's not that, it's (near the end):

Asuka (time - 1:28:17): What a disguting feeling...

I think she means "pity", supposedly Adam goes searching for Lilith because he feel sorry for her imprison in the Earth, basically he feels pity towards her...and that's one of the worse feelings you can have towards other people (if it is not the worst)

She never talks when she careses him, I have the japanese (subtitled) version of EoE. NGE is so distorted that people should be able to see that it has become a commercial mark, it's like if someone refuses to believe "no!!!, Yu-Gi-Oh! is not commercial, liar, I don't hear you, liar, bahka (start to cry, and then run)"...I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow I discover they produce sanitary paper with that name...

And here is when both talk as Adam and Lilith viewpoints:

Shinji (time - 1:05:13): I want to help you, and I want to be with you forever.

Asuka (time - 1:05:14): Then don't do anything. Don't come to my side anymore. You will only hurt me.

Maybe there is some details that just appear in the NGE Manga ?. Usually most anime series were really distorted when they make the audio/video version, there are details that are removed or changed just because they want to, or just for taking more profit from it...

If someone remember the review I posted above, it said that the fans known that in Episode 16 the Angel was supposed to talk with Shinji, however, it start showing him images due to special issues (money!!!), maybe they get this info from the Manga, until they got some kind of mind reader machine I can't think of another way why they know...

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What I can't understand, is the plot, specially in EoE near the end, it's a s**t, see why:

Towards the EoE, all humans (or souls ?) become one, there are no humans left except from Shinji or Asuka, leaving aside, the fact of why do the rest of the people without souls were supposed to unite ? (Shinji and Asuka don't have souls and they didn't really unify with the others)...the life in Earth is still standing, it the worst case humans would have dissapeared from the face of the whole earth, but the point life, all other non-human species are still there, so is that supposed to be tragic at all?

The Labyrinth of plot and mysteries, and other mysteries which basic function is to explain early mysteries, here you have an "uncertain" fact explained with another "uncertain" fact, what' sure about that is nothing, you can argue to death because it lack of a true explantion and the interpretations will always vary from different people...well anyways you pass over all that psychology stress trying to understand and searching for something pointless, a valid and true NGE plot explanation, and in the end we get to see that all the tragedy was just human's extinction, not life's extinction, but for some reason EoE hides this, is like human is no more, everything is silent...it's the end of universe...

The point is, do it was necessary all that to just get that end ?, just some average quality plot with a meteor collision with the earth would have caused much more damage to the earth, and all the life in it, so I fail to see where is the so tragic, so apocalyptic as NGE is claimed...maybe it is, but not that much, a meteor would be really terrible and the fact that NGE EoE is unbelievable unrealistic, while a meteor collision is something that might happen someday...

-----------------------------------------

My opinnion is that no one can't really rate which series is the "best" specifically, maybe in a liberal and overall way, until at least you have see all of the series of that genre. I can just compare over the series I see, but telling something like "is the best series in all the universe" would be inadequate, if you look I would be rating in one small sentence all the series, not to talk about the lack of arguments, it doesn't seem fair at all. A different case would be to choose which one I like more, but I can't...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 12:03:58 am by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
No, it's not that, it's (near the end):

Asuka (time - 1:28:17): What a disguting feeling...

I think she means "pity", supposedly Adam goes searching for Lilith because he feel sorry for her imprison in the Earth, basically he feels pity towards her...and that's one of the worse feelings you can have towards other people (if it is not the worst)
Nah. Think about it from Asuka's perspective; she lost synchronisation with Unit 02 and her life effectively lost all meaning, and she attempted to commit suicide. She then falls into a coma, and the next thing she knows, she's inside Unit 02 under attack by the JSSDF, which she summarily annihilates. She then takes on the Eva Mass-Production Series, takes them out, only to be impaled through the eye [due to the heightened Sync Ratio, she'd feel it as if it were happening to her], have them reactivate and eviscerate her, and subsequently impale Unit 02 [and her] with 8 spikes. The, she reawakens beside the Sea of LCL [I believe there is a running theory that at this point she is in fact an amalgum of Asuka, Rei and Misato] to the sight of Shinji choking her... that is one hell of a bad month.

I think "What a disgusting feeling" is rather appropriate given the circumstances.

What I can't understand, is the plot, specially in EoE near the end, it's a s**t, see why:

Towards the EoE, all humans (or souls ?) become one, there are no humans left except from Shinji or Asuka, leaving aside, the fact of why do the rest of the people without souls were supposed to unite ? (Shinji and Asuka don't have souls and they didn't really unify with the others)...the life in Earth is still standing, it the worst case humans would have dissapeared from the face of the whole earth, but the point life, all other non-human species are still there, so is that supposed to be tragic at all?

You're right in the fact that all Humans were united, but you've still got the idea a little wrong. The Human Instrementality Project was designed to artificially advance Humanity to the next stage of evolution, to dissolve every Human's AT Field - which kept any given individual isolated and lonely from every other individual - and unit everything into what ends up as the Sea of LCL [in a nutshell]. This occured, only at the last minute Shinji stopped it, choosing individuality, and thus the Egg of Lilith burst, and Shinji was not liquified. As the Human Instrumentality Project failed, Humanity is now free to become individuals once more, if they can muster the will-power to seperate themselves, so Humanity is not extinct, we're just in a different form. Asuka was somehow able to do this instantly, and thus she appears next to Shinji when he awakens, or else she's an amalgum of the three women in Shinji's life as I stated earlier... i'm sort of going off several hours of reading from several locations, not to mention the theories and ideas of a couple dozen people, so bare with me.

The point is, do it was necessary all that to just get that end ?, just some average quality plot with a meteor collision with the earth would have caused much more damage to the earth, and all the life in it, so I fail to see where is the so tragic, so apocalyptic as NGE is claimed...maybe it is, but not that much, a meteor would be really terrible and the fact that NGE EoE is unbelievable unrealistic, while a meteor collision is something that might happen someday...
It's funny you bring up the Meteor thing. Remember, the Meteor was not only a cover story for Second Impact, but it was a bad cover-up story. According to a screencap of a textbook in one of the episodes, they claimed that a Meteor about 4 inches in diametre smashed into the Antarctic at 95% C [the Speed of Light]. Those scientifical peoples around here will be able to tell you that that meteor in the coverstory was both way too small and going way too fast for it to be plausable.

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
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You're right in the fact that all Humans were united, but you've still got the idea a little wrong. The Human Instrementality Project was designed to artificially advance Humanity to the next stage of evolution, to dissolve every Human's AT Field - which kept any given individual isolated and lonely from every other individual - and unit everything into what ends up as the Sea of LCL [in a nutshell]. This occured, only at the last minute Shinji stopped it, choosing individuality, and thus the Egg of Lilith burst, and Shinji was not liquified. As the Human Instrumentality Project failed, Humanity is now free to become individuals once more, if they can muster the will-power to seperate themselves, so Humanity is not extinct, we're just in a different form. Asuka was somehow able to do this instantly, and thus she appears next to Shinji when he awakens, or else she's an amalgum of the three women in Shinji's life as I stated earlier... i'm sort of going off several hours of reading from several locations, not to mention the theories and ideas of a couple dozen people, so bare with me.

Yes, I remember the Black Moon (Lilith's Egg), it's not me, the reviews in overall claim it as an apocalyptic plot specially in EoE, but EoE tries to give the impreson Earth is Isolated after the Human Instrementality Project is almost completed...I do not not really know, what I am sure is that it was Gendou and SEELE will, but the others seems to be fighting until the end, even when they could have surrender and just let the same event happen...

I was carried away by XenoGears's Human Instrumentality Project, were humans were forced to sadistically become god, well they indeed become...but the point is that they didn't have choice, because they where forced by the will of the most powerful ones...again seems like XG shares a lot of things with NGE, however it explains every single detail towards the end, and that's the main difference between them...you can be sure of what you talk about XG, while NGE is a mess...

Quote
It's funny you bring up the Meteor thing. Remember, the Meteor was not only a cover story for Second Impact, but it was a bad cover-up story. According to a screencap of a textbook in one of the episodes, they claimed that a Meteor about 4 inches in diametre smashed into the Antarctic at 95% C [the Speed of Light]. Those scientifical peoples around here will be able to tell you that that meteor in the coverstory was both way too small and going way too fast for it to be plausable.

I wasn't talking about any of NGE Impacts, I was just making an example, of what a more apocalyptic plot would be...

 

Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
You're right and wrong. a lot of things were edited for the English version (the series I bought) so your time codes (while thoughtful) are useless to us...

That is how the version I have ends. I have no illusions that the Japansese version is different.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I wasn't talking about any of NGE Impacts, I was just making an example, of what a more apocalyptic plot would be...
Right, misread that passage, I was in a hurry to finish that post as I was already 5 minutes late for a lecture... :rolleyes:

 

Offline redsniper

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Screw the movie. I've found a fanfic that, so far, doesn't seem to suck. It picks up right at the end of the show and ignores the movie. It treats the last two episodes as occuring entirely in Shinji's head, rather than being some reality altering, soul unifying, Instrumentality whatsit. I've only read a few episodes so far so I can't say much about the plot, but I think the author got the atmosphere just right. This is the kind of continuation I've been wanting since the show ended: something that just feels like the show, as opposed to the movie which just wasn't the same.
Enough talk. Here's EVA-R.
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Quote
I've found a fanfic that, so far, doesn't seem to suck. It picks up right at the end of the show and ignores the movie. It treats the last two episodes as occuring entirely in Shinji's head, rather than being some reality altering, soul unifying, Instrumentality whatsit

If I don't remember wrong, some or most fans believe that the last 2 episodes of Evangelion (25-26 ?) happens in Shinji's mind, but EoE is what is happenning in reality, if you want you can get a long overall review in wikipedia, but it's too long and contains lot of known info...

---------------------------------------

Quote
Here's EVA-R.

Nah...I like this more (Page 10 from Echoes 2 - Mysteries of Eva, there are just a few pages containing relevant data, all other is just pure "fanfic"):



Ayanamiel, the 18th Angel...now that's funny :lol:

Page 15 from Echoes 2 - Mysteries of Eva number 2:

Narrator: You wouldn't expect them to forget but could it be important to the acting ?
Narrator: Even though the inside of the Entry Plug is filled with LCL, they sweat anc cry and such.

---------------------------------

Narrator: Being sumerged in liquid, wouldn't their hair float upward?

---------------------------------

Narrator: By the way, the reaction at seeing Ayanami's corpse in Ep.23 ("Tear")
Voice 1: Dr.Akagi what is this!?
Narrator: What on earth did they see?
Voice 2: Did she sprout wings?

There are other kind of parodies, "the foot-like things sticking out of Lilith's body" (that is from were all of Rei empty vessels come), which is compared with the way of reproduction with the Mantis's Egg, but if you check you will see both are the same kind...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 11:14:40 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline Grey Wolf

Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Flaser

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Dear HLP,

Lately I haven't been too active on the board, and even when I am; I usually restrain my temper and try to argue my point in a civilized and thought provoking manner.
There are times when ones has to take a sterner stance, but letting your temper have the better of you would ruin all whatsoever wisdom thy post may contain, so you should forever be polite and cosiderate.
This, however isn't such a time:

You're all a bunch of pussies.

I've watched Eva when I was 13, way back, when the internet was full of the criketry of modems sweating with massive kilobytes of data. I also watched Serial Experiments Lain (another title, acclimed to be more 'problematic' to understand) around that age, and managed to percieve a lot of insight into my life and the humans in general.

First of all: this series wasn't made to entertain and give you your daily dose of action/humor/escapist heroism
Second: this series has nothing to do with beating the bad guys, triump over percieved devious enemies or saving the f-...orsaken human race
Third: this series doesn't tell you what to think or that everything would be alright - so don't expect it to be spelled out for your convinience!
Fourth: the series, while flaunting heavy judeo-christian symbology, is actually heavily leaden with Jappanese culture; the characters are part of that culture, so unless you're willing to view them to an extent through that culture's customs and ideals much of their interaction and feelings will be totally lost to you
Fifth: at the heart of the series the main question is not one of "finding the right values" or "standing by your values"; but the lot more crucial question of to what extent do you allow society to dictate your values and your life

I could claim, that one has to ponder Eva to achieve and understanding - hell I did a lot of that -, but to be truthful during my first run, I simply allowed the show to wash over me.
Without either bogging down in the details of political cloack and dagger or interpersonal melodrama, I tried took in the bigger picture.

It's a tragedy of classical proportions.
A young boy who lived his life in practical exile - a non-life - is allowed to rebuild his life, bit-by-bit he reestabilishes his self through friendship, comarandine, duty and love....only to have it all taken from him, torning him to shreds in the process.
Through the various stages of his self discovery he also has to deal with issues of sexuality, responsibility and ultimately taking charge of his own life. These are things vital to any human.

Angels, battles, slapstick comedy, secret agents, beings of immense power - these are all just giant plot devices to hurtle the true story along that never emerges into the immediate events.

All said Evangelion is a seriously flawed piece of art: it encompasses so much, tries to work on so many layers, sacrifices so much in its quest that it inevitably fails to daliver on almost all conventional aspects of storytelling.
With such a shift of tone and theme, it can't fufill even the most rudimentary requirements of simetry, the basis of all works of art and and prose. It's impossible to wrap up, to give you the big all encompassing, cathartic resolution.

Therefore Evangelion can't be a morale tale. It can't portrey our ideals, our dreams, our even our subconscious nightmares.
All it can show is ourselves - in all our ****ed up glory.

Evangelion is oft quoted as revolutionary, fantastic or superb - what makes me boil with an unrestrained rage, is that it's quoted so for all the wrong reasons.

The true achievement of Evangelion is the abandonment of the classical story telling formula - even the poetic question that holds pretensious of understanding in itself - and being the perfect warped mirror - unassuming, nothing more and nothing less than confrontation with ourselves.

The rest is window dressing, byzantine worship of garnden gnomes; the rabid superstitious interpretation of the Bible by soccer moms whose sole religious experience consist of stupidvision and supersales at Walmart.

PS.: I read Eva-R right when it was written, hell I chatted on #eva-r on Dalnet.
It's fic of gargantuan proportions, and has its issues; but it's admitedly one of the better ones ever written.
My nominee for best fanfic though goes to this title:
Daniel Snyder - Symphony for the Devil
http://home.doramail.com/mew3point14/eva.html

For a list of classical/old Evangelion fanfiction follow this link:
http://www.angelfire.com/anime/evangelion2000/fanfiction.htm

These are still active evangelion fanfic archieves:
http://www.darkscribes.org/
http://www.evafics.org/
http://www.evamade.net/
http://ayanami-chan.student.ugm.ac.id/stories.php

« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 07:35:09 am by Flaser »
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Janos

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Dear HLP,


You're all a bunch of pussies.



I like your style  :cool:

lol wtf

 

Offline ZylonBane

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Anyone attempting to make perfect sense of Eva should bear in mind that the person who wrote it was apparently a bit insane.
ZylonBane's opinions do not represent those of the management.

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
NM, I'm a retard and should be shot.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 09:48:11 pm by Jetmech Jr. »
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