Author Topic: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...  (Read 14395 times)

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
As God see that human race wasn't disposed to change, God's second punishement was to empty the room of Gauf, a room which contains all of the human's souls (***), for so every child who was born after that date (or time) woulnd't have a soul.

(***) In Judaism, the number of souls is not infinite, so between time to time God refill it again

That means that neither Shinji or Asuka posses a soul, the only exception is Rei Ayanami, as the human race won't have souls, humans decided to create one, and they implant it to Rei, which is the only vessel with a soul that haves only 14 years. That's why the Evas need to have a Soul, to complete the one imcomplete souls of the pilots

Shinji and Asuka must have souls because the point of the Instrumentality project is to crush all souls together into one, and if Shinji and Asuka didn't have souls to begin with then eps25-26 and the second half of EoE would be even more odd then they already are.

While not AFAIK officially confirmed (we only have what happens in EoE to realy confirm this) , it is popular belief that Rei has the soul of Lillith but she has been made in the image of Shinji's mother, Yui.

While it is common knowledge that in NGE humanity is the spawn of Lillith, some people have suggested that the Angels are the spawn of Adam.

However I am open to other interpretations and would like to hear more from your source, Shadow0000.

Enjoy:
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Offline Kamikaze

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Now, I'm not saying that all anime is bad or with 2D characters (Macross, the original Gundam, Ghost in the Shell, Evanglion, etc), but a lot of them are.

Are you sure you watched the same Macross I did? The characters in Macross were horrifically uninteresting and, as you say, 2 dimensional. This is particularly true in the movie version, where character development was thrown out an airlock into vacuum.

I'm not sure where your claims about modern anime trends comes from either. Most psycho-trippy anime that people mention are pretty old (e.g. Lain and Eva). Most of the notable anime of the past few years have had more solid footing. For example, look at animenfo's Top 200 list and check anime from the past few years. I don't see any of the convoluted and ridiculous storylines you talk about there.

Anyway, why do you even care? Just watch what's good. There are plenty of anime that are not pointless and boring like Evangelion. A new season of anime just started up in Japan and there are maybe 3 or 4 series that are really worth watching (e.g. Ouran High School Host Club, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi, and Ergo Proxy), but that should be plenty.
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Offline Grey Wolf

Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".

 

Offline Grey Wolf

Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Evangelion takes the bare framework of Judeo-Christian mythos and a bit of psychology and places it within an anime. It overlooks most of the deeper questions within both the psychology and mythos it builds upon.  Honestly, it's nowhere near as deep a piece as is often claimed.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I honestly can't stand a lot of the pretentious "theology" that's in Evangelion.
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".

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Offline redsniper

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
:eek: I watched End of Evangelion...

Giant Rei scares the bejeezus out of me. Asuka's owning session was "pure, badass, awesome coolness."™ When I first started watching the show, I thought Shinji and Rei might get together but not like that (that is to say, some crazy, sea of LCL, mental, psycho... stuff).
Although I like the first half where things are still 'normal', I prefer the trippy last two episodes to the trippy second half of the movie. Somehow the whole thing seemed 'off' to me; it just didn't feel the same as the show, almost like it was forced or overdone. Everyone pronounced Eva wrong. I didn't get to see Unit 01 fight :(. Shinji was more of a pansy than usual. And did everyone get put back on Earth, or are Shinji and Asuka the only ones left?
Excuse the dubious coherency of this post as giving the movie any great thought makes my brain hurt.
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Offline Ulala

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I don't understand the last line of the movie: "That's disgusting" or something..? Someone clarify for me?  :)
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Evangelion takes the bare framework of Judeo-Christian mythos and a bit of psychology and places it within an anime. It overlooks most of the deeper questions within both the psychology and mythos it builds upon.  Honestly, it's nowhere near as deep a piece as is often claimed.

Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion stroy it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Asuka's owning session was "pure, badass, awesome coolness."™
And how...


 

Offline ZylonBane

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
See, I usually don't trust people who refer to art as "pretentious", because "pretentious" is all too often a term employed by embitterred anti-intellectuals, and actually means "went over my head because I don't like art that doesn't fit my child-like parameters".
But we musn't forget that 99% of "performance art" is in fact pretentious. And anything described as an "installation" is highly suspect as well.
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Offline Janos

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I don't understand the last line of the movie: "That's disgusting" or something..? Someone clarify for me?  :)

It's actually something along the lines of "I am unwell" and that particular translation error (if you watched the AmeriKKKan engrish version) is somehow important but I have no idea what.

Shinji just needs someone to screw.
lol wtf

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Quote
Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion story it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...

You know what? To hell with you all. You guys are so obsessed with controversy that I wonder whether you have actual personal opinions on things. Who the **** cares if fanboys think it's the best thing ever? Get over it. Is it good or bad, how about asking that?

The fact is, once you get past the meaningless (though beautiful) biblical imagery and the mediocre mecha battles, evangelion actually does say something about human suffering. It's hard to recognize, especially since it suffers from what I shall now officially term Naruto Syndrome (when an anime is criticized as crap, for the sake of being criticized as crap simply because it's popular, when in fact it may actually be very well done), but it's there.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 05:57:25 pm by Mr. Vega »
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Offline neo_hermes

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
*Neohermes Brain Melts* :D
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Quote
Honestly, reading the whole Evangelion story it reminds me more and more of Scientology - basicly, a load of psycho bull****...

You know what? To hell with you all. You guys are so obsessed with controversy that I wonder whether you have actual personal opinions on things. Who the **** cares if fanboys think it's the best thing ever? Get over it. Is it good or bad, how about asking that?

The fact is, once you get past the meaningless (though beautiful) biblical imagery and the mediocre mecha battles, evangelion actually does say something about human suffering. It's hard to recognize, especially since it suffers from what I shall now officially term Naruto Syndrome (when an anime is criticized as crap, for the sake of being criticized as crap simply because it's popular, when in fact it may actually be very well done), but it's there.

Ehm...and to think that I like Evangelion probably more than most of the posters on this thread...
Did you perhaps hit the wrong "quote" button?

Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.
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Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
After reading this entire thread...  :wtf:

Eva 101:

  Eva units are biological lifeforms created by genetic engineering (from Adam's cells, they admit it). they posess a myrid of powers I won't get into... Except to say the AT Field is related to the strength of one's "soul"...

   Now afer the Eva is "Grown" it is cyberized and encased in "Armor" which is actually the restraint system turning it into a marionette (How would you like it if someone strapped your arms and legs on a taller person???)

  All the mechanincal crap is for the PILOT and control of the Eva. It can move on it's own as a living being.. The POWER SOUCE BATTERY lasts 15 minutes when interruptd by failure or disconncted from power line (which are located all over the city if neded. Inone episode you see the Evas re-connecting near an armory to get a better position on an ambush).
 
When the "accident" (Never specified) happened, Shinji's Mom Yuri ws killed and her soul trapped in the 01 Eva. Gendo takes DNA from Adam and Yuri and makes Lillith/Rei 1.  Rei 1 preteen is killed by Ritsuko's mom after Gendo fails to teach her restraint and she teased the "old hag" Gendo may or may not be banging her...

Qith Rei II, Gendo is more stand-offish with this clone and yet there is still sexual tension/control obvious with this one as both man and boy fight for her affection.

Shinji gets aroused watching Rei's ass as she scrubs a floor and embarreses her when he then tells her she "reminds him of his mom". Definate incest overtones there, of course he has no idea the girl he's hot for is a partial CLONE of his MOMMY!... Aw so cute...

Anyway skipping all the other metaphysicl crap, it's a decent series and enjoyable combat.

Fast forward to the end (sorry if spoiler) Best scene in the whole friggen series is when shinji gets his "revenge" on Asuka...  This is the only series, non-hentai, I ever saw the hero do a Bukakke! Go Shinji give it to that *****! (she so deserved it!)


In the english version it goes SOMETHING like this: So don't sue me if it's wrong.

Shinji is on top and strangling Asuka and about to cllapse.

Aska: "I hate you" as she careses his face.

Shinji:  "I feel sick".

It then ends with destruction and a sea of LCL around them and has a real Adam& Eve feel to it. The implication is that they ned to reseed Humanity...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 06:36:46 pm by Getter Robo G »
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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
Okay, everyone calm down and don't take this seriously, either you will go berserker (like me) or just melt your brain, just try to be comprensive and reasonable, and be open to others interpretations (as butter_pat_head
 is). This will be long, so take read with patience, I'll continue since I left:

...Rei was the only human with a soul and the Eva 00 worked with the Dummy Plug, an artifact which emulates a soul, so both the Eva 00 and Rei have identical souls. The other Eva that never has a soul was the Eva 03 (Toji's Eva, the black one), however they (NERV?) also wanted to use the Dummy Plug in it so the pilot would be able to command it.
Going backwards in the history, the case is that God started sending one by one the "Angels" (named an "apostle" in the original Japanese version, anyway it refers to the sons of Adam), the contact between one of his sons and it's father (Adam and and any Angel), would start the 3rd Impact instantaneouly. But what the Angels didn't know if that Adam isn't not in NERV basement, but Lilith is...

For example Kaworu Nawisa (**), goes in search of Adam, he realizes that is Lilith and he ask himself why there is to annihilate all of them. To refresh the memory, Kaworu reachs there thanks to the Angel Lilim (the Production Model: Eva 02 / Asuka's Eva), Lilim is made by humans for combat, so it is the best fitted to represent humanity (said in another way, Lilim is the human race):



Kaworu Nawisa, also know as the Angel 17º named Tabris:

Some Magazines said that he is Jesus, and that his mission is to give choices to humanity, as he is known as "The Angel of Free Will", one of the reasons that he has to not continue fightning is because he fail in his try of find Adam, so he decide to surrender and give pass to humanity, this is arguible (I bet many of you wondered why he almost suicided)

The only Angel that really knows were Adam is and goes for him, is the most powerful of all (surely is), the Angel 14º Zeruel (***), this one entered NERV really easy (compared to the others), and as you may remember it stopped in front of the supercomputer MAGI which control NERV and it's scientists, included Gendou Ikari, and try to kill them...the question is why do it tries to kill them, that's not at all the Angel mission, human annihilation may be a collateral damage...
The reason is simple Gendou ordered Kaji to bring him the Adam's Embryon, Gendou implant it in his hand and so he could unleash the 3rd Impact, so he and his wife (Yui) could become Gods. That means that Zeruel wanted to touch Gendou right hand and unleash the 3rd Impact not controlated by humans.

(***)


After the series finish (Episode 26), Seele sees Gendou's true intentions and decide to take NERV control using the force...attacking MAGI, later NERV with infantry, and finally Evas to destroy Evas (fire to kill fire). Even so, Gendou tries to continue it's scheme of human complemention, which was supposed to be realized in the next way:
Join his hand to Adam to the soul of Rei once there is no ATF, once in unison Rei would become Lilith (as Rei is a clone between Lilith and Yui), and so Lilith would unificate with the Eva 01 and that would unleash the 3rd Impact, however what happened was the next :
Gendou tries to unite to Rei, but when he put his hand inside of her (without an ATF), she takes the entire of Gendou and Adam's Embryon, so Rei now with the Embryon of Adam was able to unite with Lilith and with the Eva 01 which ended becoming the soul of Yui, Gendou's Wife and resident soul of the Eva 01, and so a new god (not physic), Shinji (the son of Gendou and Yui, pilot of the Eva 01) is now the chosen to decide the faith of human race, that means if he will fulfill the "Proyect of Human Complementation" (where the or a human ascend to Gods, I believe) or everything will start over again...So the souls could keep floathin in the void or just return to the Gouf Room, where they would be called again and returned to Earth...

Then the Final comes and is one of the most complex moments, when we see Shinji and Asuka and Rei's phantom (or soul) just floating everywhere...well, most people say that Shinji becomed Adam and Asuka was Eva...this has a solid argument in the chapter Asuka attack NATO (OTAN, in other languages) and SEELE says: "Eva is giving troubles again", but they don't refer to Asuka, they referred to the Evangelion, this is so weird that the Author (Anno Hideaki) needed to make a conference in order to clear this matter, again other point that is not seen in the series...
And so on the End of Evangelion is the start, Shinji as Adam, Asuka as Lilith (yes you heard it), and Rei as Eva...the explanation is easy, Adam and Lilith relationship was very bad, as Shinji and Asuka was, while the opposite Adam and Eva relationship was good, as Shinji and Rei was, as Shinji and Rei were in love, though they never say it honestly, just in case Rei mention it in the EoE....
So Shinji (Adam) needs to kill Asuka (Lilith), in order to give place Rei (Eva) to enter as you remember he grabs her by the neck and goes berserker, but Asuka reaction is so cold that he start to think about and he don't kill her....

Opinnion from the original source:
Until this point everything could be possible, but the logic would be that he kills her in order to be able to let Eva join the paradise with him, and everything start again.

------------------------------------------

My oppinnion:

A - Adam (Shinji) goes searching for Lilith (Asuka). I bet this means that Eva remained alone and was abandonded in the paradise, it won't surprise me if she ended making the 3rd Impact because she was really pissed by Adam

B - It seems that the "logic" that is named above, refers to God's destiny, as it was meant to happen, by the counterpart, if Shinji makes his choice and don't kill Asuka (Lilith), that means he was able to decide by himself (and  so he frees from the destiny that god have prepared, or just God's will), and if he wanted to remain with Lilith it would be so, and not as God wanted...

C - He goes searching for Lilith, I bet this mean that he somewhat realizes that he love, or at least she wanted her for a very good reason.

I mean they fight a lot, but that doesn't mean that they weren't in love...., God didn't wanted Lilith, but wath was what Adam wanted ?, after all why he goes searching for her if there wasn't anything special?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is really left to understand missing points here:

1 - The Red Cross Book (the ordered seended to Japan, Neo-Tokyo-2
2 - The Longinus Lance (there is no special meant to the series, just what appers in religion), the question is why Lilith has it attached to it's chest...aside from this, this is the true proof that an Angel/Eva and an AT field can be damaged or destroyed by something without neither an ATF or a soul, and even better, something as a Mass produced weapon is...
3 - The bad time that Anno's Hideaki suffered while making NGE (yeah it's necessay specially for NGE)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Some quotes, though this has been answered already above :

Quote
While not AFAIK officially confirmed (we only have what happens in EoE to realy confirm this) , it is popular belief that Rei has the soul of Lillith but she has been made in the image of Shinji's mother, Yui.

She is supposed to be a clon between Lilith and Yui, that's why Gendou was so...well she take care of herself as if they were really close, and as he wasn't close to Lilith of course, Yui was what was left...

Quote
While it is common knowledge that in NGE humanity is the spawn of Lillith, some people have suggested that the Angels are the spawn of Adam.

The Angels in NGE are named like the sons of Adam, and in the Japanese version they were referenced as "Apostles", but they meant the same...otherwise the is no real reason to cause an Impact when both enter in physic contact.

Yes it is confirmed, humanity spawn from Lilith the 2nd Angel, humanity so are named the "Lilim", however as Adam is the 1st Angel, and somewhat she is the spwan of Adam as the other Angels are, it's cosidered that the humanity somewhat is also considere partially the spawn of Adam...

Quote
Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.

The combination of humor and battles is something which makes it different from any other mech series, if you see Gundam W or most Gundam series there isn't nothing of humor, this is not to blame, most people just see a mech series like Gundam and makes a vague an and partial description as "two robots fighting, end of the series", while Gundam just tries to reflect war among all of it's series, and maybe it does too much, Macross somewhat takes more a romantic point of view for example....
One of the reasons I could never finish to see Escaflowne was specially that it lacked of humor of any means, I mean, well maybe in that alternate universe it didn't exist, but after a few episodes I was ready to enter in hibernation state...I didn't really see the rest of the series, so...my opinnion just apply to this brief start I see.
But yes, I like more combination of situations and emotions, than just fight, fight, fight, war, war, there are some other mech's series which are like NGE and combine episodes and situations which are quite opposite frequentely....
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 01:50:31 am by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
The only Angel that really knows were Adam is and goes for him, is the most powerful of all (surely is), the Angel 14º Zeruel (***), this one entered NERV really easy (compared to the others), and as you may remember it stopped in front of the supercomputer MAGI which control NERV and it's scientists, included Gendou Ikari, and try to kill them...the question is why do it tries to kill them, that's not at all the Angel mission, human annihilation may be a collateral damage...
The reason is simple Gendou ordered Kaji to bring him the Adam's Embryon, Gendou implant it in his hand and so he could unleash the 3rd Impact, so he and his wife (Yui) could become Gods. That means that Zeruel wanted to touch Gendou right hand and unleash the 3rd Impact not controlated by humans.
Actually, if I remember correctly, when the Angel comes barging through the Holographic Display thingy and stops in front of the Magi systems, powering up it's main weapon, Gendou wasn't actually there, he was in the Cage with Unit 01. I believe he left about 5 minutes before to assist in getting the dummy-plug operational in Unit 01, which wouldn't accept it. So, Zeruel was only going to kill the command staff in the attack you mentioned.

 
Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...
I actually don't really remember it too well, but what I believe the author of that review means is that he could have ignored them and go direct for it's objective, I mean the scientients were harmless to Zeruel, so there was no reason to just destroy everything...Anyways I don't really like trying to understand Evangelion is worth, it would be almost like tryring to understand the creator (Anno Hideaki), and even his psychoanalyst must have passed serious troubles to make that possible (if he succeded in that)

Aside all that happen in NGE, humanity never have it's free will, it's either God's, Adam's, Lilith's or the Angels's that decide for the fate of everyone, or coorporations like SEELE or NERV, and if that isn't worst enough, then comes Shinji, and everybody get the idea "humanity is already doomed in his hands", if we would have to make a votation on which character you would want to hit, I bet most people would name Shinji...he really lacks of...well "everything"...

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: I just saw the last episode of Evangelion...

Quote
Animation is good, humor is good, battels are good, maby it even has some hidden meaning that is good, but let's fact it - the story sucks.

The combination of humor and battles is something which makes it different from any other mech series, if you see Gundam W or most Gundam series there isn't nothing of humor, this is not to blame, most people just see a mech series like Gundam and makes a vague an and partial description as "two robots fighting, end of the series", while Gundam just tries to reflect war among all of it's series, and maybe it does too much, Macross somewhat takes more a romantic point of view for example....
One of the reasons I could never finish to see Escaflowne was specially that it lacked of humor of any means, I mean, well maybe in that alternate universe it didn't exist, but after a few episodes I was ready to enter in hibernation state...I didn't really see the rest of the series, so...my opinnion just apply to this brief start I see.
But yes, I like more combination of situations and emotions, than just fight, fight, fight, war, war, there are some other mech's series which are like NGE and combine episodes and situations which are quite opposite frequentely....

Ye, Macross does have a more romantic feel to it..
Escaflowne is more serious in that regard and you really should watch it. the best anime IMHO...
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