[Col. Fishguts]

You may think those teams play the same style, but they're all inferior to Czech Rep. and Italy (Ghana is a blank paper).

thank you Captain Presumption Obvious for telling me what I already know and for presuming that I'm not taking that into my analysis

And yet you used the friendly matches as an argument why the US should have won against the Czechs ?

[Kazan]

And yet you used the friendly matches as an argument why the US should have won against the Czechs ?

learn to read

I said that losing to the czechs was consistent with the pattern in the friendlies - but still anomalous because of the fact that it was the first friendly and we were doing lineup playing.

IE not suprising to loose to the czechs (like 1-0 style), but playing that badly was atypical

[aldo_14]

And yet you used the friendly matches as an argument why the US should have won against the Czechs ?

learn to read

I said that losing to the czechs was consistent with the pattern in the friendlies - but still anomalous because of the fact that it was the first friendly and we were doing lineup playing.

IE not suprising to loose to the czechs (like 1-0 style), but playing that badly was atypical

right, and you don't think the opposing teams' lineup (players and formation) might have had an impact upon that?

[Colonol Dekker]

Thats not how football works surely............

[Kazan]

right, and you don't think the opposing teams' lineup (players and formation) might have had an impact upon that?

*sigh* please learn to read my posts (where I make reference to a certain czech player being important, and where I include who is missing from the roster as important in tommorow's games)

I do think the opposing teams lineup in Czech Republic v USA mattered

if they hadn't had Jens Koller to get the early goal and demoralize an already not-completely-there USA squad I think it would have been a 0-0 draw or a 1-0 game that could have gone either way

[aldo_14]

right, and you don't think the opposing teams' lineup (players and formation) might have had an impact upon that?

*sigh* please learn to read my posts (where I make reference to a certain czech player being important, and where I include who is missing from the roster as important in tommorow's games)

I do think the opposing teams lineup in Czech Republic v USA mattered

if they hadn't had Jens Koller to get the early goal and demoralize an already not-completely-there USA squad I think it would have been a 0-0 draw or a 1-0 game that could have gone either way

Then why are you citing friendlies against rather poor non-qualifying teams as any sort of guide?

[Kazan]

Then why are you citing friendlies against rather poor non-qualifying teams as any sort of guide?

because play style matters almost as much as individual talent!

am I seriously the only person in this thread who has stepped foot on the pitch in a competative league before?

[Colonol Dekker]

My god he doesn't know english natives at all does he, i played for catford wanderes for at keast 2 years when i ws 15. Done a bit of rugby/footbal for the CRE in the forces and Im thinking about playing for the corporate games.

http://www.corporate-games.com/newweb/eng_pages/gamesinformation.asp?GAMESID=93&LANGUAGEID=1
Come on really, did you think no-one from england played, its like crumpets and red busses, Football is our blood..........

[aldo_14]

Then why are you citing friendlies against rather poor non-qualifying teams as any sort of guide?

because play style matters almost as much as individual talent!

am I seriously the only person in this thread who has stepped foot on the pitch in a competative league before?

The style with which a team plays is determined by ability.  The tactics and formation within which a team plays are also determined by ability, and part of that includes the teams ability to play within that set of tactics and formation.  Would the Brazilian diamond be as effective without 2 tremondously fit full backs? Or what about the Italian diamond - same basic shape, but different manner of play; instead of the fullbacks pressing up so much (especially as Zambrotta is naturally right footed but usually plays left side), Gilardino and Toni tend to spin off into the flanks and make space for someone like Totti through the middle.

This is not a dispute that organization, etc, can win a game; just look at, for example, Northern Ireland versus England.  But, you can't expect to play one team with a similar set of tactics to another and then expect the same result against superior players using a similar setup.   Do any of those 3 friendly teams have a Rosicky, a Nedved, or an Essien?

[Colonol Dekker]

This is not a dispute that organization, etc, can win a game; just look at, for example, Northern Ireland versus England.

All good points Aldo, but was that about footy or thw IRA?<confused>

[Kazan]

Then why are you citing friendlies against rather poor non-qualifying teams as any sort of guide?

because play style matters almost as much as individual talent!

am I seriously the only person in this thread who has stepped foot on the pitch in a competative league before?

The style with which a team plays is determined by ability.  The tactics and formation within which a team plays are also determined by ability, and part of that includes the teams ability to play within that set of tactics and formation.  Would the Brazilian diamond be as effective without 2 tremondously fit full backs? Or what about the Italian diamond - same basic shape, but different manner of play; instead of the fullbacks pressing up so much (especially as Zambrotta is naturally right footed but usually plays left side), Gilardino and Toni tend to spin off into the flanks and make space for someone like Totti through the middle.

This is not a dispute that organization, etc, can win a game; just look at, for example, Northern Ireland versus England.  But, you can't expect to play one team with a similar set of tactics to another and then expect the same result against superior players using a similar setup.   Do any of those 3 friendly teams have a Rosicky, a Nedved, or an Essien?

in my expirience overall regional style comes before individual skill in determining the style of football playedo n the pitch

[aldo_14]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the actual ability of the team.  Otherwise Luxembourg and Holland would be equal.

[Roanoke]

don't forget tho, freaky things happen in finals. I mean. Greece winning euro-whatever-year-it-was ?

[aldo_14]

don't forget tho, freaky things happen in finals. I mean. Greece winning euro-whatever-year-it-was ?

Yup, that's true.  Very much an exception, though.

[Ghostavo]

Another "we won" time...

We won!!

Too bad Angola couldn't make it , they showed they are a team not to be understimated.

[Night Hammer]

How very American of you dear chap 

hold on, dont throw all of us in with this dick



now you brought up us getting to the quarters in '02 and that it wasnt an anomaly, but I seem to recall S. Korea making it the semis or somthing like that. Is that the norm too? Did I miss where S. Korea became a world power in soccer(football)? No didnt think so, anomalys do happen

[aldo_14]

How very American of you dear chap 

hold on, dont throw all of us in with this dick



now you brought up us getting to the quarters in '02 and that it wasnt an anomaly, but I seem to recall S. Korea making it the semis or somthing like that. Is that the norm too? Did I miss where S. Korea became a world power in soccer(football)? No didnt think so, anomalys do happen

Albeit...home advantage.

[Shade]

Indeed. Home advantage can be huge in motivating a so-so team to play above their ability.

[Edit] And lack of anything to play for can do the opposite... case in point, Argentina-Holland. Gawd what a bore. Two great teams, much skill, nothing to play for. Second half slightly better than the first, but still, for two teams of this caliber it's a letdown.

[aldo_14]

Yes, very dull.

[Black Wolf]

Kazan, question. Hypothetically, if the USA do lose to Ghana, will you admit that your analysis might be slightly off? And that's hypothetical, so there's no ""But they wont" or anything like that. It's a few days from now, the USA have lost and been eliminated, was your analysis before the game inaccurate?