[AlphaOne]

Cuz the Shivans do NOT use such tactics. I believed that was already established.

Also rememeber the mission where we have the jugg actualy some distance from the node? You know the one where you get the chance to actualy take out its beams.

Also the shivans are a race which prefers an agresive tactic meaning attacking the enmi positions fleets and so on not a race that uses ambush, or anything like that. Also I do not believe I have ever seen a shivan warship bug out of a battle with the GTVA that just isnt in theyr nature. Especyaly the ambush tactic. Or rather I don believe they did. Cant remember exactly every move the shivans did during the game.

[aldo_14]

Cuz the Shivans do NOT use such tactics. I believed that was already established.

Also rememeber the mission where we have the jugg actualy some distance from the node? You know the one where you get the chance to actualy take out its beams.

Also the shivans are a race which prefers an agresive tactic meaning attacking the enmi positions fleets and so on not a race that uses ambush, or anything like that. Also I do not believe I have ever seen a shivan warship bug out of a battle with the GTVA that just isnt in theyr nature. Especyaly the ambush tactic. Or rather I don believe they did. Cant remember exactly every move the shivans did during the game.

The Shivans have used ambush tactics.    Almost every initial encounter in FS1 was an ambush; of the Bastion when it sent in fighters to investigate cargo, of convoys carrying shield prototypes, of Lt.Ash in the cutscene, in destroying the Taranis.  Not to forget ambushing the GTC Vigilant, and the Erinpura and the Vauban (Triton) when they travelled to the Warspite prior to the TAG test, or even the first encounter with the Ravana.  an ambush is simply an unexpected attack and the Shivans have done that extensively.

In any case, if this tactic was as effective as you think it would be, do you really think the Shivans wouldn't try to counter-act or nullify it?

It's also worth noting badly damaged GTVA ships rarely bug out either, so it's probably not any reflection on the race but upon the realities of gameplay.

[Colonol Dekker]

Reality / gameplay balance... Heres a whole new topic that could spin off if we're not careful 

[AlphaOne]

Well now that i think about it that has happened. but still the GTVA i believe has a neck for luring out of theyr hiding places shivan capships at least in fs2 and then coming in with bommbers and even another capship to take them out. the point of these ships would be to get them fast where you need them, do significant damage if not destroy the enemy warship if posible then bug out. That is why they are dedicated to this role . If look carefully they do have a weak point and that is theyr AAAF defences which would have to be adequate at best. There is only so much firepower you can put on a warship.

sure they will be able to defend themselfs from attack but not a determined attack via assault fighters and bommbers. They are not ment for such action.

You will say that what is the point to such vessels when we have corvettes but then again i have failed to see a corvette mount anything other then slashers which are adequate at best for taking out warships. You need quite a lot of shots for them to do enough damage and that exposes the warship to unnecesary risks where as 2 BG or 1 BFG and 2 slashers would be a lot more usefull.

The fact that they are fast and agile is the whole point combined with theyr firepower. Agilaty is the whole point.

[Colonol Dekker]

Is there an energy / reactor size minimum for different beam sizes (Like in my bestest most favouritest mech game ever - Starsiege) If so i reckon you could solve that arguement by whacking a couple of capacitors and energy banaks/batteries to cycle up your reserves of power/ammo while your HK ships are in waiting, mebbe in an asteroid belt / stealthed.

[aldo_14]

Well now that i think about it that has happened. but still the GTVA i believe has a neck for luring out of theyr hiding places shivan capships at least in fs2 and then coming in with bommbers and even another capship to take them out. the point of these ships would be to get them fast where you need them, do significant damage if not destroy the enemy warship if posible then bug out. That is why they are dedicated to this role . If look carefully they do have a weak point and that is theyr AAAF defences which would have to be adequate at best. There is only so much firepower you can put on a warship.

sure they will be able to defend themselfs from attack but not a determined attack via assault fighters and bommbers. They are not ment for such action.

You will say that what is the point to such vessels when we have corvettes but then again i have failed to see a corvette mount anything other then slashers which are adequate at best for taking out warships. You need quite a lot of shots for them to do enough damage and that exposes the warship to unnecesary risks where as 2 BG or 1 BFG and 2 slashers would be a lot more usefull.

The fact that they are fast and agile is the whole point combined with theyr firepower. Agilaty is the whole point.

Agility and speed are very....murky concepts when we have instantaneous point-to-point travel.  Any ship, given the intelligence, has the capacity to jump and ambush enemy vessels in milliseconds - and any ship is susceptible to such an attack.   That's likely why GTVA forces, the design of which is the result of the long defensive great war,  are designed firstly to survive.  If we're talking of a ship that can carry BFGReens or heavy beams, it's very likely that ship will need to be fairly large and impressive (even the Colossus didn't have BFGs') to have an ability to support those beams (given the comparative armament of other GTVA ships).  In turn, the resultant size of that warship will make it more expensive and a tempting target for enemy ambush, particularly if AAA is only adequate (adequate in itself implies a fair whack of weaponry).

[AlphaOne]

well we do know that vasudan beams use some sort of capacitor to acheive a bigger power output. So that would be a good idea to have the vasudans incoporate theyr engine and weapon eractors as well as theyr beams.
they mai not do as much damage as the terran ones but that is from what i have seen in another post only a marginal diference. And they have a faster recharge rate then the terran one which would be agreat thing for these ships.

[Colonol Dekker]

If scaled the beams down, requirements would be less, recharge time would be faster, then just link them togetherinto an array and power requirements would be- Um probably the same "Meh

[AlphaOne]

umm well we could use vasudan beams on the other hand and have them overload them in order to do more damage. On the other hand this ship would not be able to carry the complex equipment that the other warships have i mean beam cannons as is the case for the corvettes its closest matching size warship... well its about 200 m longer but you get the point. Fine then lets say the ship cant carry a BFG or even 2 heavy beams then just mount one heavy beam on it and 2 slashers and some bomb/torpedo launchers on it that should do the trick i mean make it more realistic so to speak.

[Colonol Dekker]

I reckon if an Ursa could carry X amount of Helios', which look half the size of a Hygeia when you launch one, then Why not let a n 800m have BFG, BBFFG's in fact. In the collossususss(s/P? ) cutscene i'm sure it shows thevarious weapons systems being integrated, Including beam weapons. They may even be standalone units (power wise) Just look at the mjolniiiiiiiir (s/P? ) its not got a power lead trailing to the nearest ARcadia (although that would be cool).

[TrashMan]

Interesting notion...the Mljonir is a stand-alone cannon, but as I recall it is bigger than a normal beam cannon..

While I belive one could build a frigate around a BFGreen, it should have weaknesses..

Maby a forward fixed weapon..or, as someone pointed, it has to store the power in huge batteries and has heat managment problems so it can only fire a few shots and then it must bug out

[aldo_14]

well we do know that vasudan beams use some sort of capacitor to acheive a bigger power output. So that would be a good idea to have the vasudans incoporate theyr engine and weapon eractors as well as theyr beams.
they mai not do as much damage as the terran ones but that is from what i have seen in another post only a marginal diference. And they have a faster recharge rate then the terran one which would be agreat thing for these ships.

We don't know that (capacitor) atall; it's a guess as to the meaning of something a destroyer does once in the whole campaign, and in a mission scripted to show off beam weapons.  Moreso, there's patently not some easy advantage of bolting on Vasudan beams and getting more power, as there are Terran ships which use Vasudan reactors and Terran beams.

[AlphaOne]

Say what i missed the point in your post again! I think. (Colonel_D)
but the again if you have a ship which has integrated into it 2 or 3 beams anc a couple of topedo/bomb launcher you will efectively have a ship that is ment for efensive duties. and since we all know that the GTVA desperatly needs a ship with which to take the fight to the enemy instead of constantly beeing on the defensive this thing would be great.

Why? because you have a ship that is cheaper then a corvette yet more powerfull from a beam only point of view. they have a small crew to man them and are very good for hiding them in the upper layers of a gas giant or an asteroid belt perhaps even stealthd like. Prepare the killing grounds for the enemy then just order them to come in fast, attack the enemy warships while you scramble fighters to assist in theyr defence and there you have it and efective and deadly force. whitout actualy commiting destroyers to the battle or a major fleet fo that matter. and you can cover a lot of ground with them too.


I would imagine them having the beams mounted somewhere in the front as to the traditional side mounted beams.

[AlphaOne]

well we do see use of the vasudan reactors in the deimos corvette and it says that it is the most advanced or powerfull (cant remember exactly) reactor ever designed for its size. It says that its so efective that....errr...cant remember what is says next but it has something to do with beams and speed.

[Colonol Dekker]

<Speculative>Why not have the ship sporting,..............Wait for it,         A  n e w  b e a m ! <Speculative/>

[AlphaOne]

Well you could do that but then again everyone would be jumping on my head for pulling imaginari beams out of thin air. On the other hand a beam designed specificly for this ship would be good. This way you can have a powerfull enough beam to make the ship credible and realistic yet not have huge reactors to power them. This would ensure the ship maitanins its speed manouverabilaty yet deos not sacrifice its ofensive capabilities.

Its actualy a good idea. Something weaker then a BG yet more powerfull then the SG and with a good refire rate i mean something built by the GTVA enginiers not terran , not vasudan but a joint endeavour. This way you can conbine the terran beams range and damage with the vasudan refire rate and relative low energi usage. (if they actualy have lower energi usage) and why not incorporate the vasudan overloading technique without actualy ripping the ship apart.

[aldo_14]

I would imagine there are very good reasons why allied scientists have different beams with different characteristics such as one which is powerful versus one which is fast firing.  Namely, that they can't do both together without melting something.

[Colonol Dekker]

It may sound stupid, but with all these heatsinks, allied staff keep mentioning, why dont they keep BC's compartmentalised and vent atmos every time time they want a rapid temp drop, Like in Mech warrior 4 -Flushing coolANT.

[aldo_14]

BC?

[AlphaOne]

WEll thats a good point.(C_D) On the other hand the GTVA has these beams for like what..30+ years?? they must be able to improve on the beam tech by now. surely a more eficeint beam cannon can not be far away.

BC=beam cannon , i think!