[Mars]

Because it'd strongly indicate that destroyers don't have vastly large crews due to fighter support, and that'd royally screw up Trashmans entire justification (no fighters, no crew, can be loaded with stuff) for the uber-battleship class he usually punts in these types of discussion.

Ah, I knew it was somthing like that.

Well like the guis said its your mission and posibly your campaign so you can do whatever you want with it. You can even have zods and sjivans having a picnic with the main course beeing fish and human brains . Also I alwais considered that the AAAF defences were centered too much around large powerfull weapons. I mean if missile launchers are that hungry for space then by all means just go with a maxim and a circe or dual kaisers. I'm actualy tring to work on a ship about 1,6 km long . It uses around 15 dual turrets. (maxims coupled with some good shield depleting weapong). they ae used for keeping fighters at bay and for protection against bommbers. But it also has 5 AAAf beams 6 flack's and 8 misile launchers. Coupled this with 3 beam cannons and a 90 spacecraft fighterbay.

At least that is what I inted to do but then agin i bareli managed to get a rough shape of it's frons portion let alone the whole ship.

Yeah I know its offtopic just wanted to brag.

Man i really must be more carefull this post is for CP5670

You can do whatever you want in your mission, as long as you don't expect it to be taken as gosple as the saying goes.

[CP5670]

Exactly. It is a fanmade mission after all, which can't be considered canon anyway.

Without giving away too many details, I basically need a certain percentage of them to die in a short amount of time, and unless some of them are using wallhacks, the casualty numbers come out looking much more believable with 1000.

[Black Wolf]

Exactly. It is a fanmade mission after all, which can't be considered canon anyway.

Without giving away too many details, I basically need a certain percentage of them to die in a short amount of time, and unless some of them are using wallhacks, the casualty numbers come out looking much more believable with 1000.

50% Chance Radiation, 30% Chance Virus, 10% chance Vasudan Halflife

[NGTM-1R]

I want ot ask you something.. What if in hte debrief the number was 6000000? Would you still want us to blindly cling to it WITHOUT QUESTIONING It?

Yes.

It's canonical. Canon trumps all. it really is that simple, if you're making something claiming to be Freespace.

[Sarafan]

Well like the guis said its your mission and posibly your campaign so you can do whatever you want with it. You can even have zods and sjivans having a picnic with the main course beeing fish and human brains . Also I alwais considered that the AAAF defences were centered too much around large powerfull weapons. I mean if missile launchers are that hungry for space then by all means just go with a maxim and a circe or dual kaisers. I'm actualy tring to work on a ship about 1,6 km long . It uses around 15 dual turrets. (maxims coupled with some good shield depleting weapong). they ae used for keeping fighters at bay and for protection against bommbers. But it also has 5 AAAf beams 6 flack's and 8 misile launchers. Coupled this with 3 beam cannons and a 90 spacecraft fighterbay.

At least that is what I inted to do but then agin i bareli managed to get a rough shape of it's frons portion let alone the whole ship.

Yeah I know its offtopic just wanted to brag.

Man i really must be more carefull this post is for CP5670

AlphaOne, what kind of ship is that? A destroyer?

Well, about that 6000 number, everyone can chose to believe if its canon or not, I personally believe its not but if I saw a good explanation to it I would change my mind, in the end its you who's going to choose. : Now can we just go back to talking about cruisers?

I think they're going to be around and that the GTVA wont even retire the class because its still the basis of it fleets and higly useful.

Really didnt meant to offend anyone.

[Mars]

I don't think anyone was offended, I was just getting tired of arguing over somthing so... pointless.

Haven't we been over the cruiser thing?  I personally think they're being phased out (at least for now) but that they might make a comback  later.

[Sarafan]

I don't think anyone was offended, I was just getting tired of arguing over somthing so... pointless.

Haven't we been over the cruiser thing?  I personally think they're being phased out (at least for now) but that they might make a comback  later.

Comeback later as what?

[Mars]

As in they'll find a new use for the form factor, later on, maybe when they have better reactors.

[Polpolion]

It may not make sense, it may well be a mistake, it way may well be simply ludicrous to abide by that piece of information. But it's what we're given, so we've got to adhere to it. If we just assumed that bit was just a 'mistake', then maybe the Sathani jumping out after Capella goes supernova was a mistake too, just a little bit of coolness added by the animators that [V] didn't want in there. It's only seen once and never mentioned in gameplay, so what's the problem with admitting it's simply a drunken mistake? What? That makes just as much sense as what you're proposing...

There's a big difference tehre. Tehre's nothing solid to go against the Sath part, but with crew numbers there is.

I want ot ask you something.. What if in hte debrief the number was 6000000? Would you still want us to blindly cling to it WITHOUT QUESTIONING It?

You're playing the 'what if' game. I can do that to. What if you didn't try changing canon facts into something completely different, just because you didn't like them. If you don't like canon FS2 things then don't play FS2.

Anyway, state the SOLID EVIDINCE that there is not approxamatly 6000 zods on a Sobek. I'm curious.

[Pnakotus]

I want ot ask you something.. What if in hte debrief the number was 6000000? Would you still want us to blindly cling to it WITHOUT QUESTIONING It?

Yes.

It's canonical. Canon trumps all. it really is that simple, if you're making something claiming to be Freespace.

This is inane.  If the canon says Earth is red or the Orion is the biggest ship in the game, it's WRONG.  Of course, in this case we have only speculation and I have no problem with accepting the number.  Simply saying 'lolz canon is teh rightzor allah time' is bollocks.

Really, I think the issue is size and not capability.  Corvettes are nearly destroyers-without-fighterbays, but are much, much smaller.  4,000 extra guys isn't too strange for the destroyer fighterwing, but it seems wrong to us because an Orion is many times larger than a corvette.  The Sobek is pretty damn small, but without contrary evidence we can't really just ignore it.  Unless someone wants to scale it and reveal it would be physically impossible to fit 6000 men in there or something. 

[Sarafan]

I think that from now (post Capella) cruisers will have these 4 roles: Anti-fighter plataform, strategic assault, guerrilha warfare and guard duties.

I want ot ask you something.. What if in hte debrief the number was 6000000? Would you still want us to blindly cling to it WITHOUT QUESTIONING It?

Yes.

It's canonical. Canon trumps all. it really is that simple, if you're making something claiming to be Freespace.

This is inane.  If the canon says Earth is red or the Orion is the biggest ship in the game, it's WRONG.  Of course, in this case we have only speculation and I have no problem with accepting the number.  Simply saying 'lolz canon is teh rightzor allah time' is bollocks.

Really, I think the issue is size and not capability.  Corvettes are nearly destroyers-without-fighterbays, but are much, much smaller.  4,000 extra guys isn't too strange for the destroyer fighterwing, but it seems wrong to us because an Orion is many times larger than a corvette.  The Sobek is pretty damn small, but without contrary evidence we can't really just ignore it.  Unless someone wants to scale it and reveal it would be physically impossible to fit 6000 men in there or something. 

Actually just take a existing ship (navy or anything) that is about the same size of a Sobek and see if it fits so many people.

[Mars]

This is inane.  If the canon says Earth is red or the Orion is the biggest ship in the game, it's WRONG.  Of course, in this case we have only speculation and I have no problem with accepting the number.  Simply saying 'lolz canon is teh rightzor allah time' is bollocks.

Really, I think the issue is size and not capability.  Corvettes are nearly destroyers-without-fighterbays, but are much, much smaller.  4,000 extra guys isn't too strange for the destroyer fighterwing, but it seems wrong to us because an Orion is many times larger than a corvette.  The Sobek is pretty damn small, but without contrary evidence we can't really just ignore it.  Unless someone wants to scale it and reveal it would be physically impossible to fit 6000 men in there or something. 

First of all, canon is not inane, because if it isn't canon, it can't be considered part of the Freespace universe. Also, like I've said previously, if 5,000 people can fit on a Nimitz, surely 6,000 Vasudans will be able to fit on somthing more than 2X its size.

I think that from now (post Capella) cruisers will have these 4 roles: Anti-fighter plataform, strategic assault, guerrilha warfare and guard duties.

Right after Capella cruisers are largely useless, there's probably few of them left (considering the majority have been through 3 wars by now) and the corvette  has displaced them in all of those abilities. Probably the cruisers will stick around until the FS economy has recovered, and then will be scrapped soon therafter. I think they will come back, and do somthing, but not as things are post Capella. I think in the post Capella era light cruiser or gunboat type ships might come into play, warships with absolutely no anti-capital armament, making them cheaper, but with flak guns and AAA.

[Mefustae]

This is inane.  If the canon says Earth is red or the Orion is the biggest ship in the game, it's WRONG.  Of course, in this case we have only speculation and I have no problem with accepting the number.  Simply saying 'lolz canon is teh rightzor allah time' is bollocks.

Irrelevant. While you seem to think a corvette staffed by 6000 is as outlandish as 'The Earth is Red' or some such crap, go right ahead. But we're not talking about something that is contradicted by ingame event or common fact. Hell, it's not even contradicted at all! Why you compare it to easily contradicted facts i'll never know, but doing so is and forever shall be completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Really, I think the issue is size and not capability.  Corvettes are nearly destroyers-without-fighterbays, but are much, much smaller.  4,000 extra guys isn't too strange for the destroyer fighterwing, but it seems wrong to us because an Orion is many times larger than a corvette.  The Sobek is pretty damn small, but without contrary evidence we can't really just ignore it.  Unless someone wants to scale it and reveal it would be physically impossible to fit 6000 men in there or something. 

If you seem so sure of yourself, get 6000 scale-model Vasudans and whack 'em into the Sobek to see if they fit. Go on, do it. I think you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

On a side note, are we told how many Vasudans are present in a Hatshepsut? I only ask as it seems rather off to compare a 10,000-strong Orion compliment, a completely Terran vessel, to a completely Vasudan vessel that may be constructed in an utterly different manner. I mean, we've seen Shivan architecture to be decidedly alien, so is it such a stretch to assume that Vasudan architecture may be sufficiently different from Terran architecture as we know it that it could explain what some would deem a ludicrous compliment figure?

[Mars]

Yeah, I thought of that, the problem is, there's no canon data on any Vasudan warship besides the Sobek and the Colossus, which is only part Vasudan and we don't even know if there are any Vasudans in it.

[Sarafan]

Well, a light cruiser with 5 anti-fighter beams, 5 flak turrets and 2 or 3 missile launchers would be something deadly to small craft, there was this campaign, the Titan Rebellion, I think, that it had 2 Aelous completely armed with anti-fighter beams and the other with flaks, I never saw something crush two wings of fighters so fast.

[Mars]

I'm thinking of somthing maybe 150m long and maybe 2 AAA turrets and 4 flak guns, maybe with a rockeye launcher thrown in

[Sarafan]

I think that a ship for this role would have to be able to cover most directions, a good example its the 4 AAA beams of the Leviathan, so were would those turrets be?Although I would add another AAA beam and 150m seems a good size.

[Mars]

I was thinking a pretty flat design with the turrets spread evenly along the sides.

[Sarafan]

Something flat like the Mentu so to speak?

[Mars]

Yeah, but with better turret placement / weapons choice.