[TrashMan]

Give a even a microscopic bit more?

Strangely, you're the one saying 'it doesn't make sense' with absolutely no backup to that.  I, however, can always point out that it's part of the game and written by people who did know what made sense, and that it's more likely their best value for a corvette crew rather than, say, someone having a bizarre fit that resulted in them writing all the FS2 debriefings.

I did give a backup - insanely large crew numbers when compared to other FS2 ships. Deimos is 700 meters, a Hecate/Orion is over 2100... that's 3 times the length..

About the same as the difference between the Colossus and a destroyer.. And a Colossus can fit TWELVE Lucifers (destroyers). A ship that's 3 times as long has 12 times the volume.

Thus, a destroyer has 12 times the volume of a corvette, carrier 150 fighters and yet has only 4000 crew more????
Whereas the canon numbers for a cruiser are (as I recall from FS2) around 150 or so.

---------
DoFS  fighters require less crew than today? Probably the same. Even tough the constructio nadn mantainance tech moves forward, so is hte complexity of hte things that neeed mantainance. A couple of years ago every mechanic could have fixed your car -  now every car needs specific equuipment and specialyl trained mechanics. Go figure..

[Mars]

I did give a backup - insanely large crew numbers when compared to other FS2 ships. Deimos is 700 meters, a Hecate/Orion is over 2100... that's 3 times the length..

About the same as the difference between the Colossus and a destroyer.. And a Colossus can fit TWELVE Lucifers (destroyers). A ship that's 3 times as long has 12 times the volume.

Thus, a destroyer has 12 times the volume of a corvette, carrier 150 fighters and yet has only 4000 crew more????
Whereas the canon numbers for a cruiser are (as I recall from FS2) around 150 or so.

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Random rethoric

Yes, but even though the Colossus has more than 12X the voleume of an Orion, but only three times the crew, the density goes way down, you could argue that that doesn't make any sense, and in a way it doesn't, however it shows that crew density varies widely in the FS universe.

There are no canon cruiser crew numbers, you can check, there aren't any

If fighters take so many people, why is it all of the extra wings on a Hecate don't up its crew number compared to an Orion?

[TrashMan]

but shouldn't then the Destroyer have 3 times as much crew as a deimos?
Especially since it's not only bigger, but allso has fighters?

Why does the Orion have 10000?
Dunno..maby [V] gave us average numbers, not exact (similar to when you say that a Nimitz carrier has 6000 crew, alltough that number varries from one ship of that class to another, and it's actually 5874 or something like that)
Or maby the Orion has more repair crew since it's a front-line bruiser.

[Mars]

but shouldn't then the Destroyer have 3 times as much crew as a deimos?

Not nessesarially, I was just showing that crew size depends on more than just size, otherwise the Collie should have 120,000 crewmembers by all rights

Especially since it's not only bigger, but allso has fighters?

This is where I ask, with all due respect, did you even read my post?

Why does the Orion have 10000?

Cause it was :Volition:'s game, and :Volition: could do whatever the hell they wanted to do?

Dunno..maby [V] gave us average numbers, not exact (similar to when you say that a Nimitz carrier has 6000 crew, alltough that number varries from one ship of that class to another, and it's actually 5874 or something like that)

Well we can assume that, but that still suggests that the crew size of all ships is very close to where the number is, for instance, with the Sobek, we can assume that the number is not 6,000, it's 5,890, or 6,125, or somthing like that, it doesn't mean there are actually 600.

Or maby the Orion has more repair crew since it's a front-line bruiser.

Why would it need more repair crew? As far as I can tell it's the Hecates that are routinely taken down to 3% hull.

----------------------

As far as cruisers go, I'm going to make an about face. After more carefully considering it, I agree, cruisers such as the Leviathan and Aeolus are a benifit to tha allience, but not the way they're typically used in the game. As long as they're used for point defense, the GTVA should continue production of the Aeolus. I seriously think the "only 2 dozen produced" thing was :Volition:'s attempt to self-limit their usage in the main campagin.

[aldo_14]

Give a even a microscopic bit more?

Strangely, you're the one saying 'it doesn't make sense' with absolutely no backup to that.  I, however, can always point out that it's part of the game and written by people who did know what made sense, and that it's more likely their best value for a corvette crew rather than, say, someone having a bizarre fit that resulted in them writing all the FS2 debriefings.

I did give a backup - insanely large crew numbers when compared to other FS2 ships. Deimos is 700 meters, a Hecate/Orion is over 2100... that's 3 times the length..

About the same as the difference between the Colossus and a destroyer.. And a Colossus can fit TWELVE Lucifers (destroyers). A ship that's 3 times as long has 12 times the volume.

Thus, a destroyer has 12 times the volume of a corvette, carrier 150 fighters and yet has only 4000 crew more????
Whereas the canon numbers for a cruiser are (as I recall from FS2) around 150 or so.

---------
DoFS  fighters require less crew than today? Probably the same. Even tough the constructio nadn mantainance tech moves forward, so is hte complexity of hte things that neeed mantainance. A couple of years ago every mechanic could have fixed your car -  now every car needs specific equuipment and specialyl trained mechanics. Go figure..

I'd like you to point out the canon source for cruiser crew numbers, because I have never seen anything of that nature.

Furthermore, who's saying fighters can't have automatic maintenance?  Just because we see a human welding on the flight deck doesn't mean automatic repairs are impossible 'behind the scenes'.

Anyways, with all the vast space I remember you saying fighters, etc, took up, maybe there's not room for more than 4000 extra?

[kv1at3485]

It would be interesting if somebody could take the models and measure how much volume each one takes up.  (I wonder if 12 Lucifers really can fit inside a Colossus...)

[Mars]

I think it could, but I don't know for sure, put them next to each other in FRED somtime, the Colossus is to the Orion as the Orion is to the Fenris

[S-99]

wow, 5 days gone and this baby blew up since page 17. People really need to learn how to use the word "than" in correct placement of "then". You use the word "than" in a sentence such as, "i would rather do that, than this", not to be as many say"i would rather do than then this" The word "than" exists for a reason, and the hlpbb makes me almost cry because of it, well that's ok because up at my university it makes me almost want to cry for the same reason to(uaf should try hiring people who can spell to make flyers, or i should really think about transfering )
Well, from the great war, zods and terrans learned some great things. Antifighter roles is highly prized among the gtva and should never go away(pat on gtva back), corvettes are definitely covetted by cruiser crews(pat on gtva back), superior capship weapons like beams flak and subach turrets(gtva has only upwards to go if more fightermounted weapons replace blob turrets(besides prometheus blobs)), and the gtva has definitely seen the opeval of a frigate
The fenris needs to go the way of the ****ter(flush). I mean, having a wing of bombers against an orion, is like having a myrmidon against a fenris. The shivans really should get a hold of an orion some time, and remove all but two of the AAA beams, and replace all the normal beams with shivan ones. I don't really see very well at all how cruisers are supposed to have capship abilities anyway. The fenris just sucks. The leviathen is very deadly to fighters and very longlasting The aeolus is very deadly to fighters and pretty and has like fenris armor, the aeolus is a great replacement for the fenris in a flakked up sort of sense
I think gtva would get rid of fenrises first, leviathens are very effective. But, cruisers shouldn't go for capship roles, it just doesn't work, the beams mounted on cruisers aren't that strong, and are really only good for cruiser-cruiser combat. Anyway, that's why gtva is probably going to go the corvette route, it does what an aeolus and leviathen does very good, and it can go up against bigger ships too. Cruisers are only really good for antifighter roles and that's about it, but that doesn't mean do away with them completely. I can see a couple of leviathens and aeoli escorting an orion or a convoy effectively, as long as bigger capships don't warp in, the leviathen would last a lot longer than an aeolus or fenris in that situation, losing battle for the leviathen anyway. But cruisers are supposed to be complimented with fighters and such, so not a losing battle in that situation I really don't know what i'd do if i were the gtva, i like the cruisers a lot, except for fenris and aten, the corvettes are great too, and a lot better, i'd have to go with corvettes until pre-capella recovers, and then jump in cruisers again Cruisers are very useful, it would be a loss for the gtva's flexibility if it didn't have them at all.

[Mars]

wow, 5 days gone and this baby blew up since page 17. People really need to learn how to use the word "than" in correct placement of "then". You use the word "than" in a sentence such as, "i would rather do that, than this", not to be as many say"i would rather do than then this" The word "than" exists for a reason, and the hlpbb makes me almost cry because of it, well that's ok because up at my university it makes me almost want to cry for the same reason to(uaf should try hiring people who can spell to make flyers, or i should really think about transfering )

I think I use then and than correctly

Well, from the great war, zods and terrans learned some great things. Antifighter roles is highly prized among the gtva and should never go away(pat on gtva back), corvettes are definitely covetted by cruiser crews(pat on gtva back), superior capship weapons like beams flak and subach turrets(gtva has only upwards to go if more fightermounted weapons replace blob turrets(besides prometheus blobs)), and the gtva has definitely seen the opeval of a frigate

The green blobs are actually less powerful than the orange blobs, you know that, right?

The fenris needs to go the way of the ****ter(flush). I mean, having a wing of bombers against an orion, is like having a myrmidon against a fenris. The shivans really should get a hold of an orion some time, and remove all but two of the AAA beams, and replace all the normal beams with shivan ones. I don't really see very well at all how cruisers are supposed to have capship abilities anyway. The fenris just sucks. The leviathen is very deadly to fighters and very longlasting The aeolus is very deadly to fighters and pretty and has like fenris armor, the aeolus is a great replacement for the fenris in a flakked up sort of sense

It is actually stronger in FS2, it has come to my attention that it actually has 10,000 hitpoints, as opposed to 8,000. This means it takes 5 cyclopse torpedos to take it down, rather than 4.

I can see a couple of leviathens and aeoli escorting an orion or a convoy effectively, as long as bigger capships don't warp in, the leviathen would last a lot longer than an aeolus or fenris in that situation,

No it wouldn't, the Aeolus has more hitpoints than a Leviathan

[Solatar]

I'll second the fact that the Fenris has less hitpoints in fs1 'cause it always made me laugh when the Chronos had more armor than the mainstay cruiser...

Speaking of which. Cruisers were kickass in their heyday during the Vasudan War (8 blobs were actually really effective). After ships got shields, they became less and less effective as fighters became more and more advanced. Sure, the firepower from an unshielded Anubis could whittle down a Fenris pretty quickly (mostly because of all the Furies/Fangs it can carry), but the turrets would blow it to shreds (bar a human player possibly). The difference in FS2 is more than just higher fighter firepower. It's the fact that a fighter has the firepower to bring down a cruiser faster than the cruiser can bring the fighter down. During the T-V War, an 8,000 hitpoint cruiser wouldn't be extremely hard to down, but it shoots back. In FS2 the cruisers can't shoot back fast enough (except maybe the Aeolus). The Aeolus has the right idea, but it needs a bit more of it.

[Mars]

Have you ever played the main campagin on insane? The cruisers can usually fend for themselves, except  where Alpha 1 and the Maxim are concerned.

[Solatar]

I was more referring to people's comments on how Myrmidons and such could take down Fenris's. Sorry for not clarifying.

What I meant about the Aeolus (which does "smack you up") is that it has very little capital ship power (compared to other, larger ships). It's focus is more on weapons that attempt to shred fighters pretty fast. This is the evolution of the cruiser. Originally designed to be a jack of all trades ship, now it's resigned to anti-fighter roles, or at least starting to be. Future generations of cruisers will be meaner to fighters and leave the warship combat to corvettes.

And admittedly, I've been playing the Port and FS1/Restoration era stuff for so long I haven't played the main campaign in a very long time, so there is a possibility I might be mistaken about some stuff. Kindly correct me if I am (as Mars has done). I like my blob turrets too much...

[Colonol Dekker]

Aeoulus has two Greeny beams AFAIK Fenithans have one.

Not sure about types of beam in qquestion but hardpoints are there /can be modified at later date as tech increases for either class.

[Mars]

The Aeolus has two SGreens and the Fenris has 1 LTerSlash, and there's no reason not to look it up in the wiki, under Freespace 2 > Ships.

[Ghostavo]

So the Fenris has more anti-cap firepower than the Aeolus or the Leviathan?

 

[Mars]

Yes, LTerSlash has more than twice as much sustained damage / second than an SGreen, so the Fenris has more firepower than the Levi or Aeolus but it's a slashing beam thus it isn't really more effective, just more powerful

Weapon Comparison (FS2)

You also have to figure that every flak gun on the Aeolus does more damage than either the SGreen or LTerSlash at 200 damage / second, compared to 62 sustained damage / second with the SGreen and 149 / s for the LTerSlash. So... really, it depends on what you mean anti-capital (the Aeolus tends to make its anti-capital kills with flak)

[Ghostavo]

Anti-Cap = weapons that have Huge flag. Flak doesn't.

[Mars]

Even weapons without the huge flag can damage "huge" ships and destroy cruisers. The only reason the Aeolus is one of the better cruisers in a criser to cruiser duel is because of its flak guns.

[Ghostavo]

Cruiser != (is not equal to) Capital ship

[Mars]

You mean cruiser =/= capital ship, or cruiser = capital ship