Author Topic: Did Snipes betrayed you?  (Read 8108 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
No, that was a real Chronos in the Colossus cutscene, not an Amazon.

Yes, I said that.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Sorry, read carelessly.

Further proof of unseen classes comes from extrapolation of this tech description:
Quote
Description:
[edit]
Where the Aten cruiser failed, the Typhon succeeded well past expectations. The Typhon is an incredible work of engineering and the model of Vasudan technology. When the first one was sighted at the Vega Engagement, it was laughed at by our technicians as a foolish display of non utilitarian design. The subsequent destruction of the GTD Eisenhower and the total decimation of the 4th fleet changed their minds very quickly. The Typhon should never be underestimated. It wields massive weaponry, and has more armor plating than any Terran Destroyer. Its only known weakness is its turret armor, which is significant, but lower than expected. In the two years since this ship first appeared, we have only managed to destroy two of them.

The Typhon is considered a Class A threat to any ships within the same system. Do not engage without backup.

 

Offline Fergus

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Plus there were more "of us" in the Argo in As Lightening Fall, which may indicate the NTC Alexandria was SOC controled for a while, even if the crew didn't know it.

I also remember several friendly non-Erinyes fighters defending the Argo that you're sent to rescue, although I always assumed that they were all NTF and when Snipes told them they could get a lift, they didn't care who rescued them, so long as they were.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
No, they were Hercs, probably piloted by SOC pilots, but they still registered as NTF at first.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Further proof of unseen classes comes from extrapolation of this tech description:

Technically, 'any Terran destroyer' can mean any instance of the Orions', and it's also not infeasible they underwent periodic armour and weaponry upgrades over the 14 year war, as well.

Although I would think it makes logical sense myself to have some from of Vasudan precursor to the Typhon which the Orion was created to defeat, and hence an Orion precursor that the Vasudan precursor was created to combat or held some initial advantage over (because the Vasudans wouldn't survive 12 years or so without some form of destroyer, and they wouldn't keep that type for 12 years if the Orion was holding an advantage over it).  (phew)  But it's not proof.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
I think there was definitely somthing before the Orion, it would stand to reason, wouldn't it?

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
I would think that extremely likely, it's quite possible that the GTVA's first 'Destroyers' were about Corvette sized actually, though that's more guesswork and as such should be considered :)

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Regarding Snipes, I'm thinking that the reason he was still alive, was because of how long he'd been with the NTF.  He'd likely been under cover flying as an NTF pilot for some time.  Rather than executing him, they'd want to interrogate him to see how much he knew about their opperations, and how much info on the GTVA and SOC he could divulge to them.  It'd be rather short-sighted to terminate such a valuable resource.  As for the Hercs in the nebula ("As Lightning Falls"), I just figured they were all that was left of the Alexandria's cover.  I figured that the NTF pilots and the other crewmen on the Grall, realized that they were out of options, and they all turned to Snipes to get them out.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
We really need to get an offical forum image

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Heh, well I made 3 .jpgs a while ago for a laugh...

- Canon
- Non-Canon
- Non-Canon pretending to be Canon...

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
well regarding snipes.....he is one very slippery operative. I mean someone who has been dooing this for so long undercover business al all that must have made more the one friend from his enemies or at least have some very impresive knoledge of something of value or something like that to bargain for his life in case his cover gets blown.

Also i would imagine the SOC as having some rather interesting ships since I do not believe they have standard equipment. Maibe some modified cervettes or cruisers or even destroyers hell they might have theyr own destroyer/s for all we know. they sure as hell have the knoledge.

This would not mean thy have a masive fleet jus one or 2 destroyers a hand full of corvettes and cruisers or whatever it is they have for all we know they could have even one or 2 Iceni frigates along for the ride. Thsi wont mean the GTVI is just a sidenote..oh no....the GTVI has a way of how shall i put this managing to keep one step ahead of the rest of the GTVA fleets.and since neighter of these would actualy have large fleets i would imagine they are pretty special to say the least.

Oh and if you aro gooing to say that GTVA command would of known about these vesseles from the begining and showen them to us i believe you should actualy take a closer look at GTVA command to start with. They have no ideea what happenes in front of theyr eyes let alone know every little secret ship and project a secret service has or an inteligence service has.


As someone once said: "When you decide you need a secret serviceand decide to create one, once that service has grown to maturaty you can not hope to control that service no matter how hard you try. This is the price you must be willing to pay in order to have a secret service or at least a good one"
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
I sorta agreed with what you said AlphaOne especially on their fleet, but I think that, thankfully, the GTVA, given the whole experience with GTI would have better means to controls its agencies, especially SOC since they're THE elite of the elite. But, yeah, it wouldnt be possible to fully control (100% I mean) them so if they think that they needed to do something to in order to save the GTVA but that goes against it (something like ignoring BETAC or betraying a certain pilot, for example) they would definitely do it and nobody would know.

About GTVA comand, I dont think they're that stupid, they're just letting everyone think that. Also to quote someone:
Bismarck - When you want to fool the world, tell the truth and People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
[IMO]

GTVI is an intelligence gathering agency. That means no military grade vessels or their own personal army.

SOC is an special branch if the GTVI that specializes on the stuff that Snipes said it does. That means deep strikes and intelligence gathering in hostile enviroment. Or anything that requires use of force. Since their job is so special, a destroyer seems a bit too big gun for them. Since they rely on covert ops, I'd say their fleet is made of one or two fighter squadrons with possibly couple of cruisers and corvettes. And a smaller-than-a-destroyer sized base for the fighters. A destroyer is an enermously big target that requires a lot of maintanance. It cannot remain hidden because it has to travel troguht those bottlenecks called jumpnodes. Or they might not have a dedicated base at all. They could service their fighters at any base they wish since. Or they might just ship the pilots to the operation area, and commandeer fighters from the nearest friendly base. Just flip an GTVI badge on the base commanders face and be on their way.

In other words the SOC is a "tool" of the GTVI (kinda like a SWAT team).

[/IMO]
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
I'm not sure why the SOC would need any custom built ships; to me having your own designs, etc, would create too much of a conspicuous audit trail.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Unless there is anything canon I've missed I dispute that SOC actually is part of GTVI. After the Hades rebellion it would seem to me that GTVA command would be careful to make sure that their intelligence forces didn't have a miltiary wing. Note the briefing you get from Snipes in the first mission.

Quote
You have volunteered for a covert assignment with Special Operations Command (SOC), in conjunction with Galactic Terran-Vasudan Intelligence (GTVI)

You're working in conjunction with GTVI not for them. Most likely the SOC are a special forces unit within the GTVA military that is commonly loaned out to GTVI. Note that as soon as you're revealed to be a traitor it's regular military command who start giving you orders not GTVI.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Unless there is anything canon I've missed I dispute that SOC actually is part of GTVI. After the Hades rebellion it would seem to me that GTVA command would be careful to make sure that their intelligence forces didn't have a miltiary wing. Note the briefing you get from Snipes in the first mission.

Quote
You have volunteered for a covert assignment with Special Operations Command (SOC), in conjunction with Galactic Terran-Vasudan Intelligence (GTVI)

You're working in conjunction with GTVI not for them. Most likely the SOC are a special forces unit within the GTVA military that is commonly loaned out to GTVI. Note that as soon as you're revealed to be a traitor it's regular military command who start giving you orders not GTVI.

I'd imagine so, in a similar way to how the SAS intelligence gathers for a bunch of purposes, alongside other operations, but isn't part of the intelligence services.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
well actualy if you look carefully at the way new ship are first presented to you they tend to be either from a GTVI squadron I mnea bommbers/fighters/interceptors/etc. or an SOC ship. So i would imagine that the GTVI has and will have more advanced ships the  the normal GTVA fleets. Although no hades or stuff like that. Also it would be kind of hard for the GTVI to actualy renegade since we have the Grand Terran-Vasudan Inteligence. Also since the SOC is the elite of the elite I seriously do not believe they do not have some sort of base of theyr own and also a few capital ships like destroyer sized ships only more advanced. And who sais the SOC has to be 1 or 2 squadrons large?? For all we know they could be like anywhere form 10-20 squadrons with theyr own base of operations, destroyers and stuff like that.  I have yet to see a secret service or an elite branch of the milatary use standard equpment for theyr operations.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
well actualy if you look carefully at the way new ship are first presented to you they tend to be either from a GTVI squadron I mnea bommbers/fighters/interceptors/etc. or an SOC ship. So i would imagine that the GTVI has and will have more advanced ships the  the normal GTVA fleets. Although no hades or stuff like that. Also it would be kind of hard for the GTVI to actualy renegade since we have the Grand Terran-Vasudan Inteligence. Also since the SOC is the elite of the elite I seriously do not believe they do not have some sort of base of theyr own and also a few capital ships like destroyer sized ships only more advanced. And who sais the SOC has to be 1 or 2 squadrons large?? For all we know they could be like anywhere form 10-20 squadrons with theyr own base of operations, destroyers and stuff like that.  I have yet to see a secret service or an elite branch of the milatary use standard equpment for theyr operations.

(NB: Galactic TVI, not Grand)

a) a cursory scan of the FS2 briefing text doesn't show any mention of the GTVI beyond them either being provided with information, or giving it to the fleet; nothing indicating any military force

b) there's nothing explictly preventing a Terra-Vasudan rebellion beyond an arguable implausibility, nor specie-ist factions of the GTVI breaking off.  Offhand, IIRC the GTVA has species-split command structures for the military, so it may be that the GTVI itself is split in similar lines.

c) the SOC, offhand, is only shown to have one new fighter type - the Erinyes - which IIRC is clearly identified as operating in an Op-Eval period.

d) there is no need for the GTVI to have a military force; same as there is no need for the CIA or MI5 (etc) to have private armies.

e) the larger the SOC is, the less secretive it becomes.  Plus, it's a special operations unit; it performs what might be termed 'discreet' actions, something which have a large fleet sort of negates (not just in terms of visibility, but also because the SOC uses minimal logistics; I'd wager any scale of operation requiring more than a few squadrons would actually fall out of its remit and into regular fleet operations).  You already have regular fleet to do the whole fleet-scale job, after all; you wouldn't scale up the SAS to do the exact same job as the regular army, would you?

f) the SAS uses regular army equipment, with the exception of specialised (but existing; I'm thinking things like kit for hostage rescue or infiltration) stuff for jobs the regular army doesn't do.  I can't offhand think of anything the SOC would need - in the context of its spaceborne operations - that isn't seen in the regular GTVA.  And the stuff like, say, stealth capships, would be of such an advantage it would surely be inevitable to see it in regular fleet use.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Thanks aldo. I just had to delete 10 minutes of typing because you posted it first. :rolleyes:

But basicly what aldo said. It takes time to distribute new tech to the fleets. You need to tranfer the stuff and train people to usae and maintain the equipment. So it makes sense the equipment is given first to those who can make the best of it. Like the SOC.

And losing a destroyer is a huge blow to the standart GTVA fleets. How would an agency like the SOC endure such a loss of personnel and material? A force that is focused on intelligence gathering and stealth cannot be large. You cannot paint a destroyer white and glue a cleaning company logo on it, and then hope it passes unnoticed trought a jump node. NTF is a good example why SOC must be kep a secret as possible, even from your own fleets.

I have yet to see a secret service or an elite branch of the milatary use standard equpment for theyr operations.
Forget 007. Many, many special forces use 10 years old equipment because quess what. It kills just as well as the newest german über-rifle. And when they use different equipment than the regular army, it's usually because its too expensive to be given to the grunt fighting in the front lines.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Did Snipes betrayed you?
Special ops tend to be covert, The reasons for having such a division in any military are to enable actions to be taken that would be derogatory to a cause, should that cause be found to be commiting those actions. IE plausible Deniability.
GTVA want a rebel uprising quelled before its initiated/comes to fruitiion, Mr secretary for defense(GTVA equiuvalent) asks SOC commander to kill the leader his family, and their dogs. while wearing an I hate the GTVA and all they stand for style logo, Therefore, It couldn't have been the GTVA.
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