Author Topic: My Textbook Scans....  (Read 10301 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Let's put it this way. When lions and tigers (or some other organisms) stop being able to produce viable offspring after they already have for many years, it'll be sound proof.


It will indeed. But we already have other sound proof already. I can link to lots of papers which prove speciation has and does occur. Feel free to take a look at this list of observed occurances.

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Who cares anyway?

Those of us who think that science shouldn't be hobbled in an attempt to drag it back to the dark ages.

It's not a defence, it's a statement of fact. The earth really does have most of what we need to know about the origins of life written into some part of it, either the rocks or the organisms on it.

Mefustae's point is that science doesn't need to defend itself. Creationism needs to prove why it is correct. That's how science works. You can't simply say "Theory A is wrong so my theory must be right." You have to prove your theory is correct. If deepblue wants to assert that you can never know he must explain away every single possible way of knowing (including the one you posted as well as more outlandish ones like simply time travelling back and watching it happen).

I said why couldn't they?

They can't because they are incompatible if you take the bible as literal truth. The bible states that wheat came before life in the oceans. That's completely at odds with the evolutionary timeline.

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I have no idea on genesis, but I'm really sick of everyone arguing about something so trivial.

Well I hate to say it but the majority of this thread has been people answering your assertions. If you're that sick of people arguing about it maybe you could avoid saying anything in the first place :p

Umm actualy scientists ,at least those with ana open mind, never said that the Bible was wrong..i mean the whole cration stuff.


Wrong. most scientists with an open mind refuse to say that the bible is wrong when it is taken symbolically but absolutely deny that it can be taken literally. Any scientist who claims that it can be taken literally is a disgrace to the term.

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But there are some very important aspects of the whole evolution theory that actualy dont make sence. Dont ask me now to tell them to you cuz well mi brain is shot to pieces...!

So you claim it doesn't make sense and then further state that your brain is shot to pieces. Could it be that it does make sense to those of us who haven't got their brains shot to pieces and it's just that you don't understand it? Arguement from personal ignorance is a very weak argument. I don't understand how baseball stats work but that doesn't mean that they don't. Simply that either I've never taken the time to understand them or don't have the right kind of brain to understand them.

soo the fact that some scienists have actualy confirmed some of the dates and writings and facts as are mentioned  in the bible is of ne consequence right??

It's not completely inconsequential. To be honest I'd be amazed if the bible failed to get some historical facts right. It's pretty hard to write a book about the world around you and not get certain things right. However that doesn't mean that just because some of the bible is historically accurate that it all is. If you examine the writings of any civilisation you'll find that they all got historical facts correct. Does that mean that Ramayana is correct because Ayodhya actually did exist? Does that mean that muslims are correct cause many of the undertakings of Muhammad can be historically proven? Of course not. It's possible for a religious book to contain many correct historical facts.
 It's rather foolish to argue that the bible has no historical validity as it is plainly obvious that it does but as with the religious documents of other faiths the fact that some of the details are correct can't be taken as proof that the entire thing is correct.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Umm the poit of mi brain beeing shot to pieces was that I have a splitting head hurt from las night and cant come up witha decent search and link to the whole arguement. Not in regards to mi ingnorance.

Oh and by all means do tell me how the bible writers actualy managed to predict the fall of the city of Ierusalim i thin i was several hundreds of years ahead of the actual event and even managed to get the people (the armyes in this case the roman armies) correct and some of its details.

But forget about that I do agree that the Bible must not be taken literally since it wasnt written in a literral fashion well not most of it. You have to carefully interpret what the Bible is actualy saing in aordance with the way it depicts facts and the way they actualy happened in order to get a real clue as to what they are saing there.

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Offline Mefustae

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Oh and by all means do tell me how the bible writers actualy managed to predict the fall of the city of Ierusalim i thin i was several hundreds of years ahead of the actual event and even managed to get the people (the armyes in this case the roman armies) correct and some of its details.
Once again I have to point out that it is in fact the job of the individual making an provocative comment to explain/back-up said comment. So show us some evidence, and then, only then, will we explain it to you. :rolleyes:

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Umm the poit of mi brain beeing shot to pieces was that I have a splitting head hurt from las night and cant come up witha decent search and link to the whole arguement. Not in regards to mi ingnorance.

Oh and by all means do tell me how the bible writers actualy managed to predict the fall of the city of Ierusalim i thin i was several hundreds of years ahead of the actual event and even managed to get the people (the armyes in this case the roman armies) correct and some of its details.

I would strongly suggest they didn't.

Cite your source, please.  A quote from said bit of the bible would be adequate.

quote author=AlphaOne link=topic=40356.msg822353#msg822353 date=1149852473]

But forget about that I do agree that the Bible must not be taken literally since it wasnt written in a literral fashion well not most of it. You have to carefully interpret what the Bible is actualy saing in aordance with the way it depicts facts and the way they actualy happened in order to get a real clue as to what they are saing there.
[/quote]

In other words, you should ingore the bible and stick to actual facts which can't be twisted to say more or less anything through interpretation.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Oh and by all means do tell me how the bible writers actualy managed to predict the fall of the city of Ierusalim i thin i was several hundreds of years ahead of the actual event and even managed to get the people (the armyes in this case the roman armies) correct and some of its details.

Nostradamus supposedly predicted all kinds of ****. Does that make him a source of the word of God too? A prediction is only as good as the specificity it has. To say that Jerusalem would one day be invaded was no great feat. All cities got invaded in those days sooner or later. Had the bible predicted the date, the name of the invading leader and his nationality that would be a bit more impressive but even then you'd still face the possibility that the leader was simply called that deliberately by someone who knew of the prophecy already.

But the bible isn't even that specific. It's predictions have no scientific validity simply because they are so vague.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
He didnt even know about daylight savings time, so the apocalypse at the turn of the millenium could be a bit late by his prediction. IE        </spooky>    It could be very son,  <spooky>
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Actualy it predicted that it would be roman before they roman empire even existed.

Al do a search as soon as mi blasted brains shrinks down abour 2 sizes. Any good remedies for semi-hangovers overwork and a sleepless night??

Oh and just so that you dont missunderstand me I just hate the evolution theori. And i happen to believe its just as coerct as you say the bible is and just as scientificly valueble.

As soon as the Evolution theori can explain to me the missing links in humanitis "evolution" and ****less other inconsistencies I will be open to accepting such a thing.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Actualy it predicted that it would be roman before they roman empire even existed.

Al do a search as soon as mi blasted brains shrinks down abour 2 sizes. Any good remedies for semi-hangovers overwork and a sleepless night??

Oh and just so that you dont missunderstand me I just hate the evolution theori. And i happen to believe its just as coerct as you say the bible is and just as scientificly valueble.

As soon as the Evolution theori can explain to me the missing links in humanitis "evolution" and ****less other inconsistencies I will be open to accepting such a thing.

State these inconsistencies, and I'll explain it to you then.  But bear in mind a fossil record without 'missing links', i.e. a complete fossil record, would truly be an act of god.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
evolution -can- explain it

we just need to find the evidence that proves the explanation

of cours first we need to evaluate the evidence from a non-biased perspective and not try to distort the evidence to fit any particular theory, but once the proper evicence is found it'll be put into place.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
QED in other words.
> Quod erat demonstrandum
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
In other words when such evidence is presented in a objective manner so as not to fit any paricular theory i'l talk again about this subjet but untill then i'l stick with the first one..the whole bible full of predictions one. Oh and since nostradamus predictions were actualy proven to be a cleaver hoax that did not stop lost of people to believe in them.

So when you have the bible with proof about diferent events and time periods (meaning they happened as depicted in the Bible) why is it so hard to believe that but easier to believe some nutjobs cleavger hoax?
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Offline Turambar

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
as far as i'm concerned, the Bible is some nutjob's clever hoax
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 08:02:14 am by Turambar »
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
A)- Gullibility of modern soxciety/Breakdown of intellectual creativity through poor education, pressure to fir into stereotypical groups bombardment of Media?

B)- American fundies?
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
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-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Quote
Oh and by all means do tell me how the bible writers actualy managed to predict the fall of the city of Ierusalim i thin i was several hundreds of years ahead of the actual event and even managed to get the people (the armyes in this case the roman armies) correct and some of its details.

1) There were likely a whole hell of a lot of books written about the fall of Jerusalem; it's not like it wasn't a hot topic of the day. The early church leaders likely picked the books that were closest to the actual outcome to give a bit of support to infallabililty.

2) Cite your source. Again, the fall of Jerusalem is a hot topic in the late years of the Old Testament and the early years of the New Testament. If you mean "his blood be on us and our children", then say so; if you mean some Old Testament prophecy, then say so. We can draw all sorts of different conclusions based on when it was said/written.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
So when you have the bible with proof about diferent events and time periods (meaning they happened as depicted in the Bible) why is it so hard to believe that but easier to believe some nutjobs cleavger hoax?
What? What proof?! All we have is your incoherant ramblings about the Bible describing future events, with no further information to back that assertion up! Present some f***ing evidence, cite some sources, or present some logical arguements before attacking what anyone "believes".

  

Offline aldo_14

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
In other words when such evidence is presented in a objective manner so as not to fit any paricular theory i'l talk again about this subjet but untill then i'l stick with the first one..the whole bible full of predictions one. Oh and since nostradamus predictions were actualy proven to be a cleaver hoax that did not stop lost of people to believe in them.

So when you have the bible with proof about diferent events and time periods (meaning they happened as depicted in the Bible) why is it so hard to believe that but easier to believe some nutjobs cleavger hoax?

I don't know what 'nutjobs cleavger hoax' is (Nostradamus), but there's a difference between a mythology referencing history, and a mythology predicting history, and I'd like you to justify your belief of the latter.  In actuality, Nostradamus is brought up to show exactly how vague statements can be liberally interpreted to be foreshadowing or predictive, when they are really just simple old vague statements.

You should also clarify what you mean by 'such evidence is presented in a objective manner so as not to fit any paricular theory', because the whole point of the evidence is not only that it overwhelmingly supports and demonstrates evolution, but that the theory itself is built around observing said evidence, and upon expanding or adjusting based on that evidence.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Forget it when i'm feeling up to it il post some links or something like that but for now im to tired too sleepy to everithing to go search.

Also just stating mi an onli mi opinion and beliefs. Also some cleaver guy as aldo think put it would have to of live like what several thousand's of years?? Id like to see anyone try that. Oh and the scrools of the dead see i think i'm not sure of though so dont scream at me if i'm wrong were carbon dated and actualy describe whole books of the Bible.

But thats pointless i do realize that some of you are actualy scientists or will become scientists one day so to try and get this though you is pointless.

Also noone ahas actualy managed to explain to me the mising link in the human evolution thing. There is actualy a missing link forgot about the precise reference to it but you guis as so eager and exilarated suporters of the evolution theori must know what i'm talking about.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
Also noone ahas actualy managed to explain to me the mising link in the human evolution thing.

You mean like say... Aldo_14?

State these inconsistencies, and I'll explain it to you then.  But bear in mind a fossil record without 'missing links', i.e. a complete fossil record, would truly be an act of god.


There is actualy a missing link forgot about the precise reference to it but you guis as so eager and exilarated suporters of the evolution theori must know what i'm talking about.

And this is something I never got, which scientific theory is competing with evolution? Saying we are suporters of evolution makes as much sense as saying we are suporters of gravity!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 09:09:53 am by Ghostavo »
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Offline ZmaN

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
ok I would like someone to point out whats on the pages Color0024 and color0025.

How is it possible for ANY animal to transform over a period of thousands of years?  If thats teh case, the animal is renedered unusable.  it isn't able to get any food, water, it cant walk, it cant do anything but sit there.  Thousands of years?  haha, try death in 2 days.

If a bat did turn into a rodent like described, and it took thousands of years for those wings to turn into legs, whats in between?  Its not in a usable state if its "in-between".
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Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: My Textbook Scans....
You never saw a bat walk on solid ground then ?
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