[DaBrain]

I'm searching for tutorials. Do you have any idea how the shader filestructure will look like?

Is there a standard format for this, so we can just pick stuff from the net, or will we have our own way of doing this?


I'm well aware of the fact, that you might not be able to answer that at this point.

[taylor]

I'm well aware of the fact, that you might not be able to answer that at this point.

Yeah, it's a little tough to answer right now with any firm details. 

I want to try and make this as easy as possible though so the plan is just have the tbl there to offer multiple versions of the same effect, but the effects themselves will be standard shader language.  Just think of it like multi_text in other tbls, the shader script will just get sucked out of a tbl, and that script can just be a copy&paste job out of a tutorial or something.  There will be some specific layout/order to the tbl format so that the code can pick out just what it's looking for, but beyond that the actual shader should be 100% standard.

[Mehrpack]

I'm searching for tutorials. Do you have any idea how the shader filestructure will look like?

Is there a standard format for this, so we can just pick stuff from the net, or will we have our own way of doing this?


I'm well aware of the fact, that you might not be able to answer that at this point.

hi,
i have search a little bit, i hope that links will help:

GLSL – An Introduction:
http://nehe.gamedev.net/data/articles/article.asp?article=21

GLSL Tutorial:
http://www.lighthouse3d.com/opengl/glsl/

theres can you find the shader designer to play with shaders:
http://www.typhoonlabs.com/

gsls dokumentation:
http://www.opengl.org/documentation/glsl/

GLIntercept, another tool for shaders:
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~radlegend/GLIntercept/index.html


and dabrain, ask in the programming forum of 3dcenter.de
i have found there that links, and i think they help you there with material over shading and shadercode itsself.

Mehrpack

[Overlord]

We've got to wait for all of the data to catch up too.  The MediaVPs are still lagging behind at the moment.  With the shader support, we'll actually need shader effects, so that will be something for people to come up with.  And I've got partially working bumpmap code with these test images I've been sent, so that will be something else that the map makers will have to deal with when that hits CVS.  I'll probably add the bumpmap support about the same time as the shader support hits CVS so those things will hit everyone at once.  The problem is, of course, that those features are useless without the data to go with them.  :

I did not read the whole thread yet, but I already posted a bump map shader here:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,29853.0.html
Maybe you can use it.

[DaBrain]

Oh... Vertex Shader 1.0...

Should work for all cards <Geforce 3.

I don't know if we can use it as it is. But I think the maths might be helpful... at least for me.


taylor is probably already done with this part, since he has tested some normal maps already...

[neoterran]

Correction : that should read :


Should work for all cards >= Geforce3.

[Commander Zane]

I'm really sorry for bumping this, but I was curious if there's a finished version of this around, considering the site with the download says it isn't.

And does any Nividia card naturally support bloom at all?

[Taristin]

Umm... nope, and nope. Well, nVidia can support HDR (what bloom is) but theres no cheat program like the ATi one here.

[Mefustae]

All the more reason for the SCP lads to get off their fannies and make proper HDR support built-in.

[Commander Zane]

Umm... nope, and nope. Well, nVidia can support HDR (what bloom is) but theres no cheat program like the ATi one here.

So you're saying not even a custom built Nvidia specifically made for something like the Unreal 3 engine could support bloom?

[S-99]

Lol, the ati hdrish smart shader is not real hdr, in fact it's fake hdr that's static. It's always been said that cards that didn't have shader module 3.0 couldn't do hdr. Which is not true, it just depends on what you write the hdr for which shader module. The real hdr in farcry is meant only for sm3.0, the real hdr in hl2 works with sm2.0 and 3.0 and idk which others.

And does any Nividia card naturally support bloom at all?

...
................................yes, nvidia and ati cards all can, just depends on which card you use that has the right shader module that ultimately decides which card can do bloom. Pretty much cards that are sm2.0 equipped can do bloom. Maybe lower shader modules can do it also like 1.1 and 1.0, but i really don't know about that....Then again any card doing bloom is a lot easier than older cards being able to do hdr.........................hdr is more than just that famed bloom affect you're looking for, hdr has bloom, but is mainly overall dynamic brightness and contrast that depend on the game environment you're in. Bloom has been done for years before hdr even came out in games. You can have bloom without real full featured hdr, and that was what the scp was after mainly just for that bloom aspect only. They didn't want to do the full hdr. Don't mistake bloom for hdr, they really are two different affects.

[Turambar]

All the more reason for the SCP lads to get off their fannies and make proper HDR support built-in.

theyre off their fannies.  theyre just doing the important stuff that we dont even know we appreciate.

[Mehrpack]

hi,
bloom support: imho is the effect if you look in FS2 in the suns, bloom too, simple bloom but i think its the same name for it.

not full HDR supporting all cards with pixelshader support 2.0 (DirectX 9 cards, like the Radeon 9500 or higher).
not full HDR support, but better support as 2.0 pixelshader have 2.x cards (like the Geforce FX 5800 or higher, not the x800 series).
and full HDR supporting all cards with pixelshader support 3.0 (Radeon x1800 or higher and Geforce 6 or higher).

HDR dish was a driverprogramm of ATI to use the Pixelshader on thier cards for Post Processing effects.

the most games use only HDR with cards they support 3.0 (Farcry with patch 1.3, Obivilion) and bloom for cards they supporting only 2.x.

Only Half Life 2 and some Demos useing HDR with 2.x cards, but thats doesnt have all features of the HDR what is possible with 3.0 cards and the programmer have more work.
because you need 2 or more implantations of HDR and have to do most of the work 2 or more times.
the reason is: the implantation of 2.0 is different to 2.x and 3.0 cards, as far as i know.

the other thing is, that i believe you need the seperation content for all HDR implantations, too.
so its a lot of work, for a HDR that doesnt look so good as with 3.0 and the most 2.x cards are really old and can get performence problems.
so isnt really enticing for the studios to make an 2.x HDR implantation.

Mehrpack

[CP5670]

They didn't want to do the full hdr. Don't mistake bloom for hdr, they really are two different affects.

To make things more confusing, there are two distinct effects in games that are both called bloom, and they're both different from HDR. One is the type that applies a static glow to all light sources in view. This has been around for quite a while now (I think I first saw it in the original Splinter Cell in 2002) and the HDRish thing is basically this effect, although somewhat more primitive. Another effect that is also called bloom is the one that dynamically changes the brightness level depending on the scene you're looking at. This is the kind of thing you see in Far Cry, for example, and it's easy to do with the FP16 EXR HDR, although it's not actually a part of HDR.

the other thing is, that i believe you need the seperation content for all HDR implantations, too.

The new lighting information is apparently only needed for the SM2.0 version. Far Cry and the two newer Splinter Cell games don't have any additional content to make it work. I think it's needed for the second kind of bloom I referred to earlier. The radiance values need to be manually specified for all the individual walls/rooms/etc., whereas with the EXR HDR, they're automatically computed and the range of the tone mapping is adjusted to change the brightness level.

HDR in FS2 would be nice but I don't think it would be that noticeable in this type of game. The main improvement would come from the first kind of bloom.

[Goober5000]

All the more reason for the SCP lads to get off their fannies and make proper HDR support built-in.

theyre off their fannies.  theyre just doing the important stuff that we dont even know we appreciate.

QFT.  Especially Taylor.