Author Topic: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation  (Read 5709 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/gizmos/0,71626-0.html?tw=rss.index

Quote
Sean McCarthy believes his small Irish high-tech company has overturned one of physics' most fundamental laws.

It happened by accident, he says. His company Steorn was looking for an efficient way to power closed-circuit TVs that spy on ATMs, and instead stumbled on a technique they think produces more energy than it consumes.

The company hasn't released specific details about the process, other than to say it involves magnetic fields configured in precisely the right way. Using the magnets results in a motor that's more than 100 percent efficient -- essentially creating energy, McCarthy says.

For scientists and engineers, this is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine, and is almost unanimously viewed as flat-out impossible. McCarthy, an affable former energy company engineer, knows just how preposterous his claims sound. So, he advertised in this week's Economist for a panel of the "most cynical possible" physicists to help validate them.

Figures he's Irish. :p
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Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Well, if it works, he's gonna get filthy rich.

But besides from being impossible by any reason,  I only believe it when I see it.
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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
lol.

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Am I the only one who immediately thinks of that Family Guy gag where they show the Irish first inventing Whiskey?

  

Offline karajorma

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
"In this house WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!"
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Offline Night Hammer

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
"In this house WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!"

lol that simpsons was on last night here
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Offline Tyrian

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
I can only think of the other things science has said were impossible.

Five hundred years ago science knew the world was flat.

Three hundred years ago science knew the Earth was the center of the solor system.

I'll reserve judgement until that experts rule on it.
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Offline Fineus

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
This is... impressive stuff. I wonder what possible applications this has. Could it run our cars indefinitely? Could it run anything that runs on electricity for that matter?

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Five hundred years ago science knew the world was flat.

And several thousand years before that we knew that it was spherical until the christians burnt down the Library of Alexandria for containing heathen knowledge. :p

I've seen lots of these perpetual motion devices appear and be debunked previously. That doesn't mean that this one shouldn't be investigated, simply that it isn't worth consideration by anyone other than the experts until it has been proved to live up to the claims of the inventor. Because the majority of these things turn out to be shameless self promotion or simple lunacy (With the rest being outright frauds).

So given that the most simple explaination is that this guy is wrong (Like every single person before him who has made the same claim) why should we give him and his company any free publicity in the meanwhile?
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
I can only think of the other things science has said were impossible.

Five hundred years ago science knew the world was flat.


Aristotle (384 – 322 BC) thought earth was round. And he used the shadow of Earth and differences in night sky stars visible from Athens and from Egypt as proof to that.

Of course, Erastothenes of Alexandria (276 BC - 194 BC) actually measured how big the Earth was. He also developed latitude/longitude coordinate system...

And contrary to popular beliefs, people in middle ages didn't actually believe that earth was flat. Most likely normal people never even thought of it, so they didn't believe in either flat or round... But sailors at least knew the earth was round, and so did scholars.


Quote
Three hundred years ago science knew the Earth was the center of the solor system.


Considering that Newton published his Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica July 5, 1687 (and that was 319 years ago), I'd say that there were no real scientists 300 years ago that STILL did prefer the geocentric model of universe. People, yes, but no scientists.

What you refer to was not science but dogmatic view of nature preferred by religious authorities.


However, it is true that modern day physics is in quite essentially in same state as it was before quantum mechanics and relativity principle were introduced... in 19th century and early 20th, many scientists really thought that most natural phenomena had already been explained and the classical physics, coupled with Maxwell's electromagnetics, was the key to understanding everything in nature, and only minor details needed clarification.

Those minor details were really minuscule - but they had a profound effect in physics. After Planck's and Einstein's presentations of what's actually going on in electrodynamics really expanded the physical knowledge, and that expansion has been continuing until present day...

Today, we again seem to think that we know most things, and just a few things are in need of a finalizing, great unification, and then all the physics can be summed together into one Grand Unified Theory.


Anyway, one thing is sure - no device produces energy of *nothing*. It comes from something. We may not know what causes it, but something does, and some day we'll find out how it happens.

That's assuming that this news is not just another flase alarm. There has been numerous quite similar news, and nothing has ever been heard of them later. And don't you dar even look at the door that reads CONSPIRACY with big, red letters. We don't need any (more) theories explaining how oil companies silently get rid of the energy machines that could threaten their business... :rolleyes:


EDIT: One more thing, quote from th eopening message's link:

Quote
"Such devices directly violate the most fundamental laws of nature, laws that have guided the scientific progress that is transforming our world."

Devices can't violate laws of nature.

They can seemingly work in a way that is in controversy with human knowledge of laws of nature, but that's no reason to say the devices themselves violate laws of physics. :D

If something happens, it happens, no matter how impossible it might look like. If this device indeed produces energy, that energy comes from something, and it's up to scientists to research the phenomenon and define the mechanisms behind it.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 12:42:08 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
I can only think of the other things science has said were impossible.

Five hundred years ago science knew the world was flat.

Three hundred years ago science knew the Earth was the center of the solor system.

I'll reserve judgement until that experts rule on it.

Worth mentioning, methinks, that 15 thousand years ago the Vedic scrolls described the Earth as spherical and orbiting the sun...

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Worth mentioning, methinks, that 15 thousand years ago the Vedic scrolls described the Earth as spherical and orbiting the sun...

No way. 15 000 years can't be what you are meaning... :nervous:

You must be meaning five thousand years ago.
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Offline Tyrian

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
I was speaking metaphorically.  I merely meant to point out that science has been wrong before.  My sources were...ill chosen.
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This year, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union Address occurred during the same week.  This is an ironic juxtaposition of events--one involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, while the other involves a groundhog.

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Offline Sandwich

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Quote
"Such devices directly violate the most fundamental laws of nature, laws that have guided the scientific progress that is transforming our world."

Devices can't violate laws of nature.

They can seemingly work in a way that is in controversy with human knowledge of laws of nature, but that's no reason to say the devices themselves violate laws of physics. :D

If something happens, it happens, no matter how impossible it might look like. If this device indeed produces energy, that energy comes from something, and it's up to scientists to research the phenomenon and define the mechanisms behind it.

QFT. :yes:
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
I can only think of the other things science has said were impossible.

Five hundred years ago science knew the world was flat.

Three hundred years ago science knew the Earth was the center of the solor system.

I'll reserve judgement until that experts rule on it.

Worth mentioning, methinks, that 15 thousand years ago the Vedic scrolls described the Earth as spherical and orbiting the sun...

that would be impressive, considering writing hadn't been developed at that point! And wouldn't be for another 10000 years (and that's for the Near East, iirc writing in the Indus valley was a bit later)
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Yes, I'm talking out my arse.  Where the hell did I get that date from?  Now I look a twat :o

Anyways, the Vedic scrolls had the first description of this solar system arrangement, well before the Greeks.  Just, er, not quite that long ago.  2500-500 BC, I believe.

 

Offline Ulala

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Exciting improbability indeed, the applications could be incredible.
I am a revolutionary.

 

Offline ME$$ENGER

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Problem with these types of things is that they all claim very fascinating phenomena and practical applications. The first time it happened everyone's excited until they found out it's fake. Lo and behold, here comes the second, the third and the fourth imitator! Now it's more like someone comes along and says "the moonlanding is fake", "9/11 was an inside job" and "I invented a PMM". Before you know it everyone is calling him an idiot.

Seriously, I don't buy it either. I hope someone goes there and analyzes it nevertheless. Even if it isn't a PMM (which is VERY likely), chances are it's very efficient. Efficiency never hurts.

 

Offline Ulala

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Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Oh, I invented the internet by the way.
I am a revolutionary.

 
Re: Perpetual Motion claimed, under investigation
Honestly, I want this to be real simply to annoy and confuse scientists for at least the next two centuries.

I'd also love it if the "gizmo that saved the world" did turn out to have been invented by the Irish, by accident. There something about that idea that's just so perfectly wrong it's right, and has to be true.
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