[redmenace]

Now this is funny and depressing:

[aldo_14]

I'm not sure how millions of people living in abject poverty, famine conditions and without such basic comforts as heat or light can ever be considered funny...

[redmenace]

Funny that millions of people living in abject poverty, famine conditions and without such basic comforts as heat or light are duped into thinking that the south is the same way. And yet we wish to keep these people in that situation by effectivly propping up their government.

[aldo_14]

Funny that millions of people living in abject poverty, famine conditions and without such basic comforts as heat or light are duped into thinking that the south is the same way. And yet we wish to keep these people in that situation by effectivly propping up their government.

No, 'we' wish to stop a collapse that would worsen the situation over a wider area.  This has got nothing to do with propping up the NK government, and all to do with keeping the regions' humanitarian economy (amongst other things) stable.  Any form of action will result in grinding poverty - but just removing the NK government in a swoop, tempting as it sounds, would spread that out to cause chaos in SK and China (in particular) as well.  Having squalid refugee camps housing hundreds of thousands - if not millions - on the suburbs of Seoul or Kaesong isn't going to solve anything, and we've seen in Iraq what happens when you remove a government without the plans or means to cope with the aftermath (and Iraq is a cakewalk compared to NK in this aspect).

[redmenace]

Which is pure speculation. The effective result of aid we are giving them is only to feed their "military" and thus allow a malignant regiem to continue to exist. I don't support removing their gov't either. I just say let it collapse under its own ineptness and deal with the consequences. The alternative of helping that inept and retarded regiem to exist under the guise of order is foolish and dare I say we would likely grow to regret such actions in the future.

Also, China and Russia are partly responcible for the state of NK. They should be having to deal with this more than the US.

[Wobble73]

BTW it's regime and not regiem   

[redmenace]

Mel Brooks: The inquisition, The inquisition

[aldo_14]

Which is pure speculation. The effective result of aid we are giving them is only to feed their "military" and thus allow a malignant regiem to continue to exist. I don't support removing their gov't either. I just say let it collapse under its own ineptness and deal with the consequences. The alternative of helping that inept and retarded regiem to exist under the guise of order is foolish and dare I say we would likely grow to regret such actions in the future.

Also, China and Russia are partly responcible for the state of NK. They should be having to deal with this more than the US.

Technically, China are dealing with it.  They're just dealing with it in a way that - shock!  horror! - befits their national interest (i.e. not having thousands of refugees pouring in).  After all, it's not like they're the only nation willing to tolerate a dictatorship in the furtherance of their interests.

[Rictor]

http://times.hankooki.com/service/print/Print.php?po=times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200610/kt2006101217510111990.htm

A Korean-Japanese scholar who is considered North Korean leader Kim Jong-il’s unofficial spokesman said yesterday that Pyongyang has a hydrogen bomb it would test as part of a series of actions mentioned in its statement against the United States.

uh-oh.

[NGTM-1R]

Was that not an allegation, based upon an alleged statement by the NK ambassador (or some other official) to a US representative which the North Koreans denied ever making? (i.e. handy invented pretext)

According to the BBC's timeline, it was more along the line of truckloads of fuel rods being sent to a known centrifuge site after the DPRK removed the seals and monitoring devices the IAEA installed.

[Ford Prefect]

I'm not sure how millions of people living in abject poverty, famine conditions and without such basic comforts as heat or light can ever be considered funny...

Ehhh, it's pretty funny. Granted, that's because I'm not living there, but humor is humor.

[Unknown Target]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061013/ap_on_re_as/us_nkorea_49;_ylt=AuTedB1cNbyDsZuhpSANbDKCscEA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

WASHINGTON - Results from an initial air sampling after
North Korea's announced nuclear test showed no evidence of radioactive particles that would be expected from a successful nuclear detonation, a U.S. government intelligence official said Friday.

[aldo_14]

Was that not an allegation, based upon an alleged statement by the NK ambassador (or some other official) to a US representative which the North Koreans denied ever making? (i.e. handy invented pretext)

According to the BBC's timeline, it was more along the line of truckloads of fuel rods being sent to a known centrifuge site after the DPRK removed the seals and monitoring devices the IAEA installed.

What timeline are you reading?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2604437.stm

   
Last Updated: Tuesday, 3 October 2006, 10:18 GMT 11:18 UK
E-mail this to a friend    Printable version
Timeline: N Korea nuclear standoff
Tensions have been building in recent years over North Korea's nuclear weapons ambitions.

2002
2003
2004
2005
2006

2002

3-5 October 2002: On a visit to the North Korean capital Pyongyang, US Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly presses the North on suspicions that it is continuing to pursue a nuclear energy and missiles programme.

Mr Kelly says he has evidence of a secret uranium-enriching programme carried out in defiance of the 1994 Agreed Framework.

Under this deal, North Korea agreed to forsake nuclear ambitions in return for the construction of two safer light water nuclear power reactors and oil shipments from the US.

16 October: The US announces that North Korea admitted in their talks to a secret nuclear arms programme.

17 October: Initially the North appears conciliatory. Leader Kim Jong-il says he will allow international weapons inspectors to check that nuclear facilities are out of use.

18 October: Five Japanese citizens abducted by North Korea 25 years before are allowed a brief visit home - but end up staying, provoking more tension in the region.

20 October: North-South Korea talks in Pyongyang are undermined by the North's nuclear programme "admission".

US Secretary of State Colin Powell says further US aid to North Korea is now in doubt.

The North adopts a mercurial stance, at one moment defiantly defending its "right" to weapons development and at the next offering to halt nuclear programmes in return for aid and the signing of a "non-aggression" pact with the US.

It argues that the US has not kept to its side of the Agreed Framework, as the construction of the light water reactors - due to be completed in 2003 - is now years behind schedule.

14 November: US President George W Bush declares November oil shipments to the North will be the last if the North does not agree to put a halt to its weapons ambitions.

18 November: Confusion clouds a statement by North Korea in which it initially appears to acknowledge having nuclear weapons. A key Korean phrase understood to mean the North does have nuclear weapons could have been mistaken for the phrase "entitled to have", Seoul says.

11 December: North Korean-made Scud missiles are found aboard a ship bound for Yemen, provoking American outrage.

The US detains the ship, but is later forced to allow the ship to go, conceding that neither country has broken any law.

12 December: The North threatens to reactivate nuclear facilities for energy generation, saying the Americans' decision to halt oil shipments leaves it with no choice. It blames the US for wrecking the 1994 pact.

13 December: North asks the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to remove seals and surveillance equipment - the IAEA's "eyes and ears" on the North's nuclear status - from its Yongbyon power plant.

22 December: The North begins removing monitoring devices from the Yongbyon plant.

24 December: North Korea begins repairs at the Yongbyon plant.

North-South Korea talks over reopening road and rail border links, which have been struggling on despite the increased tension, finally stall.

25 December: It emerges that North Korea had begun shipping fuel rods to the Yongbyon plant which could be used to produce plutonium.

26 December: The IAEA expresses concern in the light of UN confirmation that 1,000 fuel rods have been moved to the Yongbyon reactor.

27 December: North Korea says it is expelling the two IAEA nuclear inspectors from the country. It also says it is planning to reopen a reprocessing plant, which could start producing weapons grade plutonium within months.

[NGTM-1R]

Same one you are. Teach me not to try and quote from memory.

[aldo_14]

Well, as an update it's appearing there may not have been a nuke after all;  I can't find a link justnow, but reportedly US intelligence has said they failed to pick up any radiation signal as would be expected.

I have to admit this is pretty hilarious if true; "We now have a nuclear weapon!"  "No you don't, but here's some sanctions anyways"

[Unknown Target]

I just posted the article like five posts back

[vyper]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6050236.stm

And yet now this. Hmm, intriguing?

[aldo_14]

Confusing!

[Bobboau]

all that confirms is that they probably did try to test a nuke, ie they probably didn't try to fake it.

[IPAndrews]

Korea claims a state of war exists between the UN and their country. British news leads with Madonna. Looks like Apathy has set in already.