Author Topic: I demand unfettered access to ...  (Read 17766 times)

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Offline Kazan

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I demand unfettered access to ...
... boobies in public!

http://www.nbc6.net/news/10068660/detail.html


seriously though... do laws against women going topless serve any secular purpose?

they're breasts ffs.... so what
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Offline Hippo

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
\o/
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
seriously though... do laws against women going topless serve any secular purpose?

Yes, preventing auto accidents.
-C

 

Offline Kazan

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
seriously though... do laws against women going topless serve any secular purpose?

Yes, preventing auto accidents.

hehe

i'm serious now
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Offline Mathwiz6

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
the sirius jump node?

Umm... its for the children? It's to prevent horny teenagers from wrecking society?

Ummm...

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
It's true! You ever see that video of the F1 driver crashing because a woman flashed him? :D

  

Offline Hippo

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
a lawmaker or lobbyist would probably argue that public boobies would lead to more rape/sexual assault. complete bollocks of course.


Liberate teh boobies!
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
Topless=braless. Braless=saggier quicker. And nobody wants saggy boobs.

And besides - there are plenty of women who's bare chests I just do not want to see - in fact, plenty of women who should be draped in the losest, thickest most opaque cloth one can find. Moreover, the boobs I do want to see unclothed are generally not that hard to find at the beach in summer. So, yeah. Go the quo.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 03:03:38 pm by Black Wolf »
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Offline Hippo

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
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Offline karajorma

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
Once you start using the "Its not secular" argument though you can't really protest much about bottomless too.

I'm always reminded of this when people bring this up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQW_HENbW10
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
i'm serious now

So am I. How many auto accidents are caused because people were talking on cell phones? And that doesn't really impair any of your senses. How is it going to work out when not only is the driver distracted, but he's checking out some chick on the street and not looking at the road?

For that matter, I find it amusing that you're apparently trying to draw a contrast between the 'secular' point of view (pro-topless) and the 'religious' point of view (pro-modesty). Does that mean you're fine with watching the 50-year-old at a food line in front of you drop his pants and start masturbating furiously? Because I'm fairly sure that that cultural taboo has roots in religion as well. :p

I'm just not very sympathetic to anyone who tries to blame some external force for something that they don't like, when really what they're protesting is basically somethat that has continued for the sake of continuing, and because it has continued for so long. Bras exist today because it's part of modern American culture, not because men are oppressing women or because religion is oppressing the masses. If you choose to see it that way, all you're doing is doing yourself a disservice and alienating those that don't share your hatred and intolerance of religion.
-C

 

Offline Hippo

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
Does that mean you're fine with watching the 50-year-old at a food line in front of you drop his pants and start masturbating furiously?

:wtf:


How did you... I mean... Uh... O_o
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Offline karajorma

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
For that matter, I find it amusing that you're apparently trying to draw a contrast between the 'secular' point of view (pro-topless) and the 'religious' point of view (pro-modesty). Does that mean you're fine with watching the 50-year-old at a food line in front of you drop his pants and start masturbating furiously? Because I'm fairly sure that that cultural taboo has roots in religion as well. :p

Hang on a sec.

Didn't we have a long argument last year where you were on the other side of the debate?
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Offline Hippo

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
* Hippo pukes
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Offline Kazan

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
If you choose to see it that way, all you're doing is doing yourself a disservice and alienating those that don't share your hatred and intolerance of religion.

excuse me? if I was intolerant of religion I wouldn't defend their right to believe that bull**** - tolerance of an opinion doesn't require accepting the validity of that opinion, nor does it require considering that opinion non-harmful. 

You and a bunch of other people need to learn to differentiate between "disagreeing with a position and debating against it's validity" and "wishing to make it illegal to be something" - I support their right to BE what they are as  vehemently as I defend my right to be free from their coercion in government - the two are one and the same.   

Don't confuse tolerance with being PC - it's being PC to accept the validity of a position even if it's invalid.


it is true that the taboo about exposed boobies in public is thanks to hyperventaliative "moralists" (Which are an exclusive feature of religion) and your "old man masturbating in public" is a false analogy - exposure of breasts/genitalia is not the same thing as actively engaging in usage.. furthermore there is a difference between what should be considered rude/inappropriate and illegal

allowing nakedness in public is not the same thing as allowing masturbation/sex in public.

way to setup a false dichtonomy
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 03:27:21 pm by Kazan »
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Offline achtung

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...

allowing nakedness in public is not the same thing as allowing masturbation/sex in public.

way to setup a false dichtonomy
See though, the American taboo of naked boobies turns it into a sexual thing.  In France for instance, topless beaches and the like are common, but they are used to it, so they don't think twice.  Here though, we're forced into the taboo so bare boobies is turned into a major thing.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
If you choose to see it that way, all you're doing is doing yourself a disservice and alienating those that don't share your hatred and intolerance of religion.

excuse me? if I was intolerant of religion I wouldn't defend their right to believe that bull**** - tolerance of an opinion doesn't require accepting the validity of that opinion, nor does it require considering that opinion non-harmful. 

You and a bunch of other people need to learn to differentiate between "disagreeing with a position and debating against it's validity" and "wishing to make it illegal to be something" - I support their right to BE what they are as  vehemently as I defend my right to be free from their coercion in government - the two are one and the same.   

Don't confuse tolerance with being PC - it's being PC to accept the validity of a position even if it's invalid.

How can you call yourself 'tolerant' when your behavior towards those that you see as religious is often offensive, provocative, and focuses very strongly on their religious affiliation?

it is true that the taboo about exposed boobies in public is thanks to hyperventaliative "moralists" (Which are an exclusive feature of religion) and your "old man masturbating in public" is a false analogy - exposure of breasts/genitalia is not the same thing as actively engaging in usage.. furthermore there is a difference between what should be considered rude/inappropriate and illegal

allowing nakedness in public is not the same thing as allowing masturbation/sex in public.

way to setup a false dichtonomy

Yet the taboo against public masturbation is also thanks to those aforementioned "hyperventaliative moralists" (I presume you're referring to the Puritans here).
-C

 

Offline Kazan

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
How can you call yourself 'tolerant' when your behavior towards those that you see as religious is often offensive, provocative, and focuses very strongly on their religious affiliation?

I don't "see" them as religious, they are religious. 

If denouncing their totalitarianism ways is offensive then you're going to be offended quite often - every time someone stands up for democracy you're going to be defended.   Sure, some of them are not totalitarian - so they should know my statements of that nature don't apply to them.  You find me a christian that isn't predjudiced against atheists, in america, and I will give you a freaking medal.  Even the so called "liberal, tolerant" christians are closet bigots against people not of their religion in my expirience - my own mother even!


Denouncing their being deluded may be - but the truth sometimes hurts.   I don't give a **** if they're offended by the truth - that's their problem not mine.  Simple fact is: they fit the textbook definition of delusional.  They are believing in something without the slightest scrap of evidence, and some of what they believe goes AGAINST evidentially established fact.  Worse they let this delusion control decisions they make that affect other people.

Their religious offiliation is something they _choose_. 

I have every right to denounce it, I can logically justify why it's dangerous, and I can demonstrate and prove the harm it's done to me. 

No... whatever I do that you claim is offensive is not a single ten thousandth as offensive as what they have done. 

Yet despite all these things I still defend their right to believe what they believe - I'd say that is the pinnacle of tolerance.  I consider their beliefs (and rightly so) a threat to my rights, and the survival of the human species - and yet I defend their right to believe it! 

After they have been responsible for the supression of my rights, the mutilation of my body, the cause of many wars, the death of millions, the source of mental illnesses, and any other offenses - I still defend their right to be what they are!

no... that is not intolerant - that is the very definition of tolerance - allowing something to exist that you disagree with.   

Stop confusing "tolerance" and "agreement"!

If I was intolerant of their position I wouldn't be friends with them, if I was intolerant of their position I wouldn't have the best man in my wedding being one of the more religious people I know.  If I was intolerant of them I would not consider hiring them if I was an employeer.

so stop insulting me with your faulty presumptions!





Quote
Yet the taboo against public masturbation is also thanks to those aforementioned "hyperventaliative moralists" (I presume you're referring to the Puritans here).

irrelevant - it can be secularily justied (rude because most people simple don't want to see someone beating it in public, potentially banable because exposing children to sexual acts _can_ be harmful to them if exposed in the wrong situation)
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
How can you call yourself 'tolerant' when your behavior towards those that you see as religious is often offensive, provocative, and focuses very strongly on their religious affiliation?

I don't "see" them as religious, they are religious. 

If denouncing their totalitarianism ways is offensive then you're going to be offended quite often - every time someone stands up for democracy you're going to be defended.   Sure, some of them are not totalitarian - so they should know my statements of that nature don't apply to them.  You find me a christian that isn't predjudiced against atheists, in america, and I will give you a freaking medal.  Even the so called "liberal, tolerant" christians are closet bigots against people not of their religion in my expirience - my own mother even!

Your opinion that someone is 'religious' is not necessarily fact. 'Religious' is a vague label that can have a wide variety of meanings. Someone may structure their entire life around biblical teachings, be openly bigoted against gays, bisexuals, atheists, etc etc and insist that they be kicked out of the country. Or they may go to church once a month, and occasionally use biblical ideas for guidance.

For that matter, if you don't belive in any sort of divine intervention, the all religion is just the opinion of the people that make it up. Therefore drawing generalizations based on it isn't really different than drawing generalizations based on someone's race or sexual preferences. It's a very fine line of stereotyping that you're trying to justify here.

Denouncing their being deluded may be - but the truth sometimes hurts.   I don't give a **** if they're offended by the truth - that's their problem not mine.  Simple fact is: they fit the textbook definition of delusional.  They are believing in something without the slightest scrap of evidence, and some of what they believe goes AGAINST evidentially established fact.  Worse they let this delusion control decisions they make that affect other people.

Their religious offiliation is something they _choose_. 

I have every right to denounce it, I can logically justify why it's dangerous, and I can demonstrate and prove the harm it's done to me. 

No... whatever I do that you claim is offensive is not a single ten thousandth as offensive as what they have done. 

Yet despite all these things I still defend their right to believe what they believe - I'd say that is the pinnacle of tolerance.  I consider their beliefs (and rightly so) a threat to my rights, and the survival of the human species - and yet I defend their right to believe it!

Your belief that you are doing something that benefits the survival of the human species is no more testable than the existence of a deity. At least, from what I've observed, no human has the ability to predict the exact consequences of their words. I haven't seen any evidence that indicates you to be an exception to that case. So how is your belief that your actions will promote the survival of the human species any more valid than their belief that there is a higher being, plane of existence, or other system at work that humans cannot understand?

After they have been responsible for the supression of my rights, the mutilation of my body, the cause of many wars, the death of millions, the source of mental illnesses, and any other offenses - I still defend their right to be what they are!

no... that is not intolerant - that is the very definition of tolerance - allowing something to exist that you disagree with.   

Stop confusing "tolerance" and "agreement"!

If I was intolerant of their position I wouldn't be friends with them, if I was intolerant of their position I wouldn't have the best man in my wedding being one of the more religious people I know.  If I was intolerant of them I would not consider hiring them if I was an employeer.

so stop insulting me with your faulty presumptions!

I am no more insulting you than you have insulted people on this board who have dared to take a stance that you see as religious. I implied that you were being intolerant. You have, in this very post, accused others of being bigoted. How is my accusation any more insulting than your own? And if it is not more insulting than your own accusations, why do you get offended when I do it, but seem to consider it completely acceptable for you to do it to others?

I can't speak on what you do in your personal life. I'm limited to my observations on the way you act here and the opinions you express. But I would like to point out that "Some of my best friends are ____" is a pretty old cliche. For that matter, I doubt very much that your religious friends would very much appreciate being called a "closet bigot". Most self-respecting people would.

Quote
Yet the taboo against public masturbation is also thanks to those aforementioned "hyperventaliative moralists" (I presume you're referring to the Puritans here).

irrelevant - it can be secularily justied (rude because most people simple don't want to see someone beating it in public, potentially banable because exposing children to sexual acts _can_ be harmful to them if exposed in the wrong situation)

Then there is a secular justification for laws against women going topless - public opinion. The existence of the law in the first place is a strong indication of that. The only way to really refute this argument is to get the law regarding appropriate dress in public rewritten or repealed by public consent.
-C

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: I demand unfettered access to ...
exposing children to sexual acts _can_ be harmful to them if exposed in the wrong situation)

As opposed to the right situation?

my own mother even!

At any rate, that explains a lot.