[redmenace]

Do you mean poles?

[Turambar]

no, he means average uneducated working class americans who vote republican despite the fact that republicans are doing everything in their power to exploit them and screw them over.

[Kazan]

Do you mean poles?

you've not read 1984 have you? i think that term is used constantly in it

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prole


and yes.. the proles are ****ing idiots.. the biggest flaw of democracy is the dumbest part of the population has equal power to the smartest part of the population

[redmenace]

Ah, I have never read 1984. I did not know that.

Poles are a piece of **** anyway.

In regaurds to the senate, again, the gay marriage ban is really drawing of voters so don't be suprised if Allen wins.

[redmenace]

As early as 7pm we will know whether they will regain control of the senate.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/06/D8L7SEQG0.html

[aldo_14]

Do you mean poles?

you've not read 1984 have you? i think that term is used constantly in it

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prole


and yes.. the proles are ****ing idiots.. the biggest flaw of democracy is the dumbest part of the population has equal power to the smartest part of the population

Tell that to lobbyists.

EDIT; proles - short for proletariat, a term coined in Marxism for the working class, the people who sell their labour to live (as opposed to middle/upper class, who sell produced goods or services performed by others).

[Bobboau]

Libertarians are no better than republicans, and many way's they're much worse.  the totality of the implementation of Libertarian party's policies would be the total and complete collapse of america as a free country within a genreation, the power vacuum their naive policies would create would be filled by the corporations they so highly worship and think would "do the best for all people" in their naivete - it would be cute if it wasn't such a damaging policy if ever adopted.

if by that you mean a return to a country were you won't be arrested for not paying tribute to the government, then bring on the collapse!
while I'll admit many in my part go a bit further than is probably feasible, I think the common direction of both major parties twards larger more powerful central government is the biggest threat to the US as a free nation. I do not like the taxing and redistributing policies of the democrats, and I ****ing hate the theocratic BS from the republicans, so the only party out there that fits at all for me is the Libertarians.

vote green if the green candidate you are voting for is VIABLE and the republican in the race has no chance of voting - i like the greens more than the dems too for the most part - but if voting libertarian means making it easier for the republicans to keep/gain a sreat then i will vote democrat to deny them that seat.  atleast the democrats try to be representative

you may be happy to know most of the votes I cast (when I had any opption at all, at least half of the ballot was unopposed democrats) were actualy for the greens, they managed to get on the ballot, all we (the libertarians) managed was a write in for governor.
and I live in Illinois, so, yeah, I doubt the republicans are going to make much progress here, so don't worry about that.
though while I do like the anti-corruption positions of the greens, they are, like the democrats, realy into government run, tax financed projects, I mostly only voted for them because they were the only choice not of the two major parties, and I think the issues of our political climate (two parties, no opptions) are more important than any issues in the short term.

BTW, do you have a site that would have information regarding Missouri's ammendment 2, I'm realy hopeing it gets passed, and from what I've heard it probly will, but I've heared a LOT of BS about it on the radio so I am sort of worried.

[Kazan]

bobboau:

if you don't like taxes, you can stop taking advantage of what they provide - police protection, highways, electricity, army, legal system, sewers, water, and a million other things

of course you'd just be replacing it with a situation in which if you criticize the corporations you're tend off for reeducation.

"zomg someone told me the democrats are for big government, and someone told me that big government is always evil! they most both be true!"

democrats are for a government just large enough to do it's job - the job of protecting the people, promoting the general welfare, etc.  democrats are for efficient government that serves the people - if that means government a that's somewhat larger then so be it.  Government's job is to serve the people, and most of it's jobs only the government can do equitably (that isn't to say it cannot do it poorly as it does sometimes now)

the "redistribution" talking point.... oh puuhlease - even the father of capitalism recognized that the more well off should pay more in taxes- the value of an individual unit of currency is subjectively less for them, and they use more "stealth" government services (roads, police, etc - the things people don't think about)

furthermore there must be an equitable distribution of wealth otherwise a capitalist economy collapses.

furthermore the costs of providing welfare are less than the costs of no doing so - both monitary and societal.

hit me up on ICQ or something to talk point by point...

Libertarianism is the new hippy - and i mean that in the "naive idealist" kind of way.

PS: most of these things the government does, the market wouldn't do equitably or efficiently (not that government always does the later, but it CAN if people keep their eyes open) - money isn't everything and some people need to realize that - i make more money than you, i'm atleast 1 tax bracket above you
PPS: most waisteful spending in our government: military
PPPS: if we just balanced the budget that would free up almost $250 billion/year

-----------------

missori's ammendment 2?

[Kazan]

Dirty underhanded tricks #1

Republicans abuse the EAS system to force radio add for republican candidate onto other stations: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/6/221343/779

[Nix]

Kaz, you're the perfect example why I vote republican in the first place.  It's people like you that I would fear to have in power, with such hatred and such utter disgust for people in general just because their political alignment is not the same as yours.  Spew forth as much anti-republican rhetoric you can, it's not going to change my views/alignment/ME.  Thanks for coming out of the woodwork today, cause I needed a real good laugh! 

And, if I really wanted to vote, I'd be voting all across the board if I could.  Whoever has the best ideas, well then they get my vote.  There's just not much that you can do in Utah, because the population is overwhelmingly conservative republican.  Remember, we ARE the mormon headquarters of the entire world here. You can't make a dent if you vote democrat here in this state.  You might if you moved to Nevada, but here it just isn't going to happen.  I am a republican, and I'm tolerant of democratic ideas, not some hard-line extremo-facist nazi-loving america hating bushmonger.  I just have yet to find a democrat that I actually honestly agree with.

[Kazan]

my utter disrespect for republicans comes from their behavior.  their consistent and unmitigated arrogance in legislating their religion, their trampling of civil and human rights, and their consistent polluting of the public information stream to manipulate public opinion.

You're tolerant of democratic ideas are you? do you support equal rights for gays? to you support following the constitution and getting god off our money, back out of our pledge, and stopping funding sectarian groups?  do you oppose laws based upon religious purposes?

if you answer yes to those questions then I owe you an apology.

[Kazan]

dirty underhanded tricks #2

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001955.php

FBI Probing Voter Threats in Virginia

"The FBI is looking into possible voter intimidation in Virginia's hard-fought U.S. Senate contest between Republican incumbent George Allen and Democrat Jim Webb," reports the Richmond Times-Dispatch. The intimidation -- including threats of arrest -- appeared to be concentrated in heavily Democratic areas. MSNBC has more, available at ThinkProgress.

[Kazan]

dirty underhanded tricks #3 - voter disenfranchisement in Georgia

Polling place sign in Georgia

Only problem? Georgia voters don’t need to show ID. In September, a state court struck down Georgia’s voter ID law and as People for the American Way notes, “most voters do not need to show an ID of any kind.”

[Kazan]

dirty underhanded tricks #4 - voter intimidation Allen style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9i-_3TiN9g

This is one hell of a YouTube Clip.  One that everyone must listen to, as it crystalizes the essence of the Republican KITV ("Keep in The Vote") strategy: lying and intimidation.

Please spread this far and wide.  Allen is being investigated by the Justice Department for voter suppression, but if there is no public outrage, the investigation will die.  The above clip, however, if spread far and wide, will create the outrage necessary to force change and make sure such criminal activity never ever takes place again.

Transcript of the voter intimidation voicemail below the flip:

"This message is for Timothy Daly. This is the Virginia Elections Commission. We've determined you are registered in New York to vote. Therefore, you will not be allowed to cast your vote on Tuesday. If you do show up, you will be charged criminally."

Update [2006-11-7 11:51:41 by pontificator]: If this were an accusation against a Democrat, this YouTube would be featured above the fold at the Drudge Report, and all the CNN/MSNBC/FOXnews mannequins would be babbling about it nonstop. Since it's an accusation against a Republican, however, I predict we'll hear nary a peep about this, unless we do everything in our power to draw attention to it ourselves!

Update [2006-11-7 12:8:53 by pontificator]: It's not just the Webb campaign making allegations. Allen's vote suppression tactics have been documented by state officials. Thinkprogress has more here.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/7/112734/724

[edit]
FBI is involved

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/7/9913/02183

[Turambar]

just voted.

now i can rightfully complain about those 'conservative' sleazebags running things.

[Nix]

my utter disrespect for republicans comes from their behavior.  their consistent and unmitigated arrogance in legislating their religion, their trampling of civil and human rights, and their consistent polluting of the public information stream to manipulate public opinion.

Nice of you to lump me in with that category of people there. You're so quick to jump to conclusions, Kaz, it didn't surprise me at all.

You're tolerant of democratic ideas are you? do you support equal rights for gays?

Yes, I believe all humans should be treated equally, fairly, regardless of, race, sexual orientation, or any other factor that might seperate one person from another. I don't agree with gay people who force thier lifestyle and ideals down straight people's throats though. 

to you support following the constitution and getting god off our money, back out of our pledge, and stopping funding sectarian groups? 

I feel those have been written for a reason when they were written, and should not be changed.  I see absolutely no harm in keeping God in the pledge of allegiance, and on the back of our money.  If it was bad for America, don't you think something would have happened in the last ~200 years? If your interpretation of the Constitution is to remove God from the equation, then that's your view.  I just find it trivial, and maybe it's my "hick upbringing" but I don't see what the problem is with this!  Oh, BTW, I'm not mormon, I'm agnostic. 

do you oppose laws based upon religious purposes?

Absolutely.  Many state laws in my state are put into place with influence from the Mormon church.  For example, people can't buy tobacco untill thier 19, and can only purchase hard liquor from a state-regulated liquor store.  Soon, the lighter alcoholic drinks, perhaps even beer will be removed from grocery stores and gas stations because they fear that they'll lead to alcoholism.  Oh yeah, you can't buy pornographic material from another state and have it shipped to Utah either, that's against another state law, no doubt influenced by the Church.  The state of Utah's state laws are based upon the beliefs of the Mormon church.  Ask any Utahn, and they'll tell you the same.  If you want to see cattle, or rather a mass of zombies controlled by the government and the church, look at a traditional Mormon family, living in Utah. I'm glad I'm moving back to the state of Nevada soon.

if you answer yes to those questions then I owe you an apology.

Quite frankly, you do.  The way you've acted really shows me what a lot of democrats stand for, and serves as a reminder why i'm proud to be a republican. 

BTW Kaz, posting little isolated incidents makes the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN BASE a bad and nasty thing for america?  I could post several other "dirty underhanded tricks" that the Dems have done as well!  We could go round and round all day long, but it's just going to result in the acceleration of impending carpal tunnel syndrome.  We know where we stand.  Like others have said, chill the fu*k out.

[Turambar]

BTW, Kaz.


keep fighting the good fight. 

[Nuclear1]

and yes.. the proles are ****ing idiots.. the biggest flaw of democracy is the dumbest part of the population has equal power to the smartest part of the population

So some people should be more equal than others, I guess is your point?  I don't disagree with that those who go to the polls and vote without having an idea of the issues or of government pose a problem, but I wouldn't put it the way you did.  What there needs to be is some sort of government or civics portion of standardized testing, then maybe we can work something out...

[Nuclear1]

dirty underhanded tricks #3 - voter disenfranchisement in Georgia

Polling place sign in Georgia

Only problem? Georgia voters don’t need to show ID. In September, a state court struck down Georgia’s voter ID law and as People for the American Way notes, “most voters do not need to show an ID of any kind.”

So?  Voter ID is being done here in Indiana as well, but if people can't simply take the time necessary to drive out and get a free piece of paper to vote really shouldn't be voting at all, no?

[Flipside]

The problem isn't really the poles, though Vote-rigging is a concern, it's not even really the politicians, it's the system they are working within. People shouldn't be politicians because it's a well paid career with a high profile and excellent prospects. They should be a politician because they genuinely give a damn.

To most politicians, it's a game, they want to get elected (a)for the money and (b) to prove they can. It's like Bill Gates, I suspect he sees the money merely as a way of keeping score these days, and politicians are no better, they'll flit from opinion to opinion and from soapbox to soapbox depending not on what they think is right, but what they think will keep them in power.