Author Topic: The Ursa  (Read 17446 times)

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Offline Hippo

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$Name:               GTB Ursa
$Short name:            TBomb5
$Species:            Terran
+Type:               XSTR("Assault Bomber", 3017)
+Maneuverability:       XSTR("Very Poor", 3018)
+Armor:               XSTR("Very Heavy", 3019)
+Manufacturer:          XSTR("Han-Ronald Corp.", 3020)
+Description:         XSTR(" ", 3021)
$end_multi_text
+Tech Description:
XSTR("The GTB Ursa is the slowest bomber in the GTVA fleet. What it lacks in speed, however, it more than makes up with its massive payload. The Ursa was the first GTVA bomber designed specifically to destroy capital ships. With a rack of Helios bombs, in addition to a standard complement of Hornet missiles and Prometheus cannon, a squadron of Ursas can take out a destroyer. Ursas have the highest shielding of any bomber, along with a GTVI-designed hyper-dense hull. These help ensure that the Ursa gets close enough to deliver its payload and possibly even survive the escape.", 3022)
$end_multi_text
+Length:          41 m
+Gun Mounts:      5
+Missile Banks:   3

$POF file:                      bomber05.pof
$Detail distance:       (0, 150, 550, 1300)
$Show damage:           YES
$Density:                       1
$Damp:                          0.2
$Rotdamp:                       0.55
$Max Velocity:          0.0, 0.0, 45.0
$Rotation time:         5.5, 6.0, 6.0
$Rear Velocity:         0.0
$Forward accel:         4.0
$Forward decel:         2.0
$Slide accel:           0.0
$Slide decel:           0.0
$Expl inner rad:        75.0
$Expl outer rad:        150.0
$Expl damage:           30.0
$Expl blast:            2000.0
$Expl Propagates:       NO                                                      ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed:       0.0                                             ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Allowed PBanks:        ( "Subach HL-7" "Akheton SDG" "Morning Star" "Prometheus S" "Prometheus R" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim")
$Allowed Dogfight PBanks:        ( "Subach HL-7" "Akheton SDG" "Morning Star" "Prometheus S" "Prometheus R" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim")
$Default PBanks:        ( "Prometheus R" "Prometheus R" )
$Allowed SBanks:        ( "Rockeye"  "Tempest" "Harpoon" "Hornet" "Tornado" "Trebuchet" "Piranha" "Stiletto II" "Cyclops" "Cyclops#short" "Helios" "EMP Adv." "Infyrno" )
$Allowed Dogfight SBanks:        ( "Rockeye"  "Tempest" "Harpoon" "Hornet" "Tornado" "Trebuchet" "Piranha" "Stiletto II" "Cyclops" "Cyclops#short" "Helios" "EMP Adv." "Infyrno" )
$Default SBanks:        ( "Hornet" "Piranha" "Cyclops#short" )
$SBank Capacity:        ( 80, 80, 80 )
$Shields:                       850
$Shield Color:      100 100 255
$Power Output:          4.5
$Max Oclk Speed:        60.0
$Max Weapon Eng:        150.0
$Hitpoints:                     550
$Flags:                         ( "player_ship" "default_player_ship" "bomber" "in tech database")
$AI Class:                      Captain
$Afterburner:           YES
   +Aburn Max Vel: 0.0, 0.0, 90.0
   +Aburn For accel:       0.7
   +Aburn Fuel:            300.0
   +Aburn Burn Rate:       80.0
   +Aburn Rec Rate:        25.0
$Countermeasures:       40
$Scan time:                     2000
$EngineSnd:       127                   ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos:           0.0, 0.0, -69
$Closeup_zoom:          0.5
$Shield_icon:           shield-b05
$Ship_icon:                     iconbomber05
$Ship_anim:                     ssbomber05
$Ship_overhead: loadbomber05
$Score:             10
$Trail:
   +Offset:      1.69 4.5 -11.3
   +Start Width:   0.25
   +End Width:   0.05
   +Start Alpha:   1.0
   +End Alpha:   0.0
   +Max Life:   1.0
   +Spew Time:   120
   +Bitmap:   Contrail01
$Trail:
   +Offset:      -1.69 4.5 -11.3
   +Start Width:   0.25
   +End Width:   0.05
   +Start Alpha:   1.0
   +End Alpha:   0.0
   +Max Life:   1.0
   +Spew Time:   120
   +Bitmap:   Contrail01
$Trail:
   +Offset:      13.93 0 1.97
   +Start Width:   0.25
   +End Width:   0.05
   +Start Alpha:   1.0
   +End Alpha:   0.0
   +Max Life:   1.0
   +Spew Time:   120
   +Bitmap:   Contrail01
$Subsystem:                     communications, 10,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     navigation,                     10,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     weapons,                                20,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     sensors,                                10,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     engine,                         35,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     b05-turreta,1,1.0
   $Default PBanks:        ( "UD-8 Kayser" )


Quote
$Name:                          GTB Boanerges
$Short name:               TBomb21
$Species:                       Terran
+Type:                          XSTR("Heavy Bomber", 3029)
+Maneuverability:            XSTR("Very Poor", 3030)
+Armor:                         XSTR("Very Heavy", 3031)
+Manufacturer:               XSTR("RNI Systems", 3032)
+Description:               XSTR(" ", 3033)
$end_multi_text
+Tech Description:
XSTR("The new GTB Boanerges has been assigned to elite bomber squadrons in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Terran battle groups. The challenge of maintaining an aging fleet has motivated the GTVA to develop a new generation of ships able to withstand long-term abuse in the field. By maximizing shielding and payload (while offering enough maneuverability to make it a viable tactical unit), the Boanerges promises to remain in service for decades to come. One test pilot observed that the Boanerges handles better than any other bomber and has enough firepower to make it a formidable anti-capship weapon.", 3034)
$end_multi_text
+Length:          34 m
+Gun Mounts:      1
+Missile Banks:   3

$POF file:                      bomber2t-01.pof
$Detail distance:       (0, 180, 350, 1300)
$Show damage:           YES
$Density:                       1
$Damp:                          0.35
$Rotdamp:                       0.55
$Max Velocity:          0.0, 0.0, 55.0
$Rotation time:         5.5, 6.0, 6.0
$Rear Velocity:         0.0
$Forward accel:         4.0
$Forward decel:         2.0
$Slide accel:           0.0
$Slide decel:           0.0
$Expl inner rad:        50.0
$Expl outer rad:        100.0
$Expl damage:           25.0
$Expl blast:            2000.0
$Expl Propagates:       NO                                                      ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed:       0.0                                             ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Allowed PBanks:        ( "Subach HL-7" "Prometheus S" "Prometheus R" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim" "UD-8 Kayser" )
$Allowed Dogfight PBanks:        ( "Subach HL-7" "Prometheus S" "Prometheus R" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim" "UD-8 Kayser" )
$Default PBanks:        ( "Prometheus R" )
$Allowed SBanks:        ( "Rockeye" "Hornet" "Tornado" "Trebuchet" "Stiletto II" "Piranha" "Cyclops" "Cyclops#short" "Hornet#Weak" "EMP Adv." "Infyrno" "Helios" )
$Allowed Dogfight SBanks:        ( "Rockeye" "Hornet" "Tornado" "Trebuchet" "Stiletto II" "Piranha" "Cyclops" "Cyclops#short" "Hornet#Weak" "EMP Adv." "Infyrno" "Helios" )
$Default SBanks:        ( "Hornet" "Cyclops#short" "Cyclops#short" )
$SBank Capacity:        ( 40, 100, 100 )
$Shields:                       850
$Shield Color:      100 100 255
$Power Output:          4.0
$Max Oclk Speed:        65.0
$Max Weapon Eng:        100.0
$Hitpoints:                     325
$Flags:                         ( "player_ship" "default_player_ship" "bomber")
$AI Class:                      Captain
$Afterburner:           YES
   +Aburn Max Vel: 0.0, 0.0, 85.0
   +Aburn For accel:       0.7
   +Aburn Fuel:            300.0
   +Aburn Burn Rate:       50.0
   +Aburn Rec Rate:        25.0
$Countermeasures:       35
$Scan time:                     2000
$EngineSnd:       127                   ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos:           0.0, 0.0, -51
$Closeup_zoom:          0.5
$Shield_icon:           shieldbt-01
$Ship_icon:                     iconbomber2t-01
$Ship_anim:                     ssbomber2t-01
$Ship_overhead:      loadbomber2t-01
$Score:             10
$Trail:
   +Offset:      9.5 -1.247 -15.68
   +Start Width:   0.25
   +End Width:   0.05
   +Start Alpha:   1.0
   +End Alpha:   0.0
   +Max Life:   1.0
   +Spew Time:   120
   +Bitmap:   Contrail01
$Trail:
   +Offset:      -9.5 -1.247 -15.68
   +Start Width:   0.25
   +End Width:   0.05
   +Start Alpha:   1.0
   +End Alpha:   0.0
   +Max Life:   1.0
   +Spew Time:   120
   +Bitmap:   Contrail01
$Subsystem:                     communications, 10,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     navigation,                     11,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     weapons,                                20,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     sensors,                                10,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     engine01,                         17,     0.0
$Subsystem:                     engine02,                         17,     0.0


VBB Survivor -- 387 Posts -- July 3 2001 - April 12 2002
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Offline Goober5000

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Quote
One test pilot observed that the Boanerges handles better than any other bomber and has enough firepower to make it a formidable anti-capship weapon.

The rest observed that its mediocre armor and lack of any defensive turrets make it a sitting duck.

 

Offline CP5670

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Although the Ursa and Boanerges appear to have the same total secondary capacity, the Boanerges is actually better in that respect as far as bombs go. If a secondary weapon's size doesn't divide the ship's capacity exactly, FS2 rounds up to the nearest integer, which results in the Boanerges being able to hold 3/7/7 Cyclops bombs while the Ursa carries 5/5/5. The Boanerges is even better with the Helios; not only does it carry 2/4/4 instead of 3/3/3 but it has an even number in each bank, so you can fire off all the bombs in a shorter amount of time (5 "launches" instead of 6).

The Ursa is after all an older design. It is fairly mediocre in FS2 (the Sekhmet is equal or better in almost every way)

Pity they never let you fly it then :D

I think it actually only appears once in the entire campaign, in loop1-1 (Rebels and Renegades), and even in that there are only four of them. :p It's used in several multiplayer missions though.

[edit] never mind, it's in one other mission too as a reinforcement wing. I never bothered to call them in. :p
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 09:53:24 pm by CP5670 »

 

Offline Hippo

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Also, the boag is no more manuverable than the ursa, meerly has 10m/s on it, which actually makes it worse for dogfights as its turning radius is greatly increased. the ursa has a net missile storage of 240, same as the boag (though less evenly distributed than the ursa), has a turret, and the ursa has 70% more armor plus a second primary bank (and 2.5x gunpoints). Ursa wins.
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Meh, I leave the bombing to the capable ( :lol: ) ai, and just beat the crap out of the fighters. Leave capships to capships.

    |[===---(-         
    ||
 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 

Offline BS403

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Also, the boag is no more manuverable than the ursa, meerly has 10m/s on it, which actually makes it worse for dogfights as its turning radius is greatly increased. the ursa has a net missile storage of 240, same as the boag (though less evenly distributed than the ursa), has a turret, and the ursa has 70% more armor plus a second primary bank (and 2.5x gunpoints). Ursa wins.
Plus the ursa's afterburner is 5m/s faster allowing it travel short distances faster.

Meh, I leave the bombing to the capable ( :lol: ) ai, and just beat the crap out of the fighters. Leave capships to capships.
I do the exact oppisite, bomb the hell out of the capships
then I end up killing most of the fighters anyways cause all my wingmen are dead :lol:
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Offline IceFire

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Boanerges remember is more of a striking weapon while the Ursa is meant to last.  If you want to absolutely pummel a cap ship with a heavy bomber strike the Boanerges is perfect.  But it needs fighter cover.  The Ursa is more rough and tumble...the area may not be clear but send in the Ursa's anyways and it can pummel whatever it needs to.

Two different concepts of assault. I prefer the Boanerges due to smaller size, slightly faster speed over the distance, and bigger potential load over a shorter period of time.  But I can see why folks would like the Ursa as well.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Quote from: The Wiki Veteran Comments
Most people seem to have been disappointed with the Boanerges. I'm one of them. Despite the tech description, the Boanerges really does not seem to handle better then an Ursa. It also lacks the Ursa's second primary bank, having only a single two-gun set of primaries. In most anti-capital missions you'll want a Maxim primary, and dogfighting with a Maxim is an exercise in futility most of the time. This leaves you to fall back on your secondaries for anti-fighter protection, an uncomfortable situation, as secondaries run out. (And if you're not going after caps, why are you in a heavy bomber anyways?) It also does not seem to have a significantly stronger set of shields or a much stronger hull then an Ursa. Its only saving grace is that it has larger secondary bays and so can put a greater amount of weight on target before it runs dry...but sometimes this really does not seem enough to justify its use.

From the tech room description the Boanerges is really not meant to be better than the Ursa, but rather to be at least as good, the main driver for its adoption being reducing the maintenance burden. IMO the Boanerges is the better pure bomber, assuming that all heavy bomber wings are escorted by fighters, as they should be (but sometimes aren't), if you want to dogfight as well as bomb then you should really be using a light bomber like the Artemis or a Zeus, not a heavy bomber at all

A crucial line is crossed in the Boanerges. Previous heavy bombers were incapable of dogfighting. The Boanerges is incapable of defending itself.
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I prefer speed over firepower. It took a little bit to get used to the Inferno ships, but I much prefer them over the retail ships. Bombers I don't like all that much in a firefight because they're slow, they take time to deliver their payload, and interceptors can pwn their oversized butts. I see why bombers are useful, but they should warp in later into the firefight, rather than be destroyed by interceptors or fighters. And shivan bombers.......make good paperweights.

    |[===---(-         
    ||
 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
And shivan bombers.......make good paperweights.

You wouldn't say that if you saw a wing of Vindhyachal bombers warping in... And to your horror a rain beam rips apart the convoy you're protecting...

:shaking:

Granted, however, the Shaitan, Nahema and even Durja are pretty crap, but if you're distracted by a few Hydras or Gorgons then they rip your flagship to pieces.

 

Offline Taristin

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Only 2 of all those you mention are canon. The rest are invalid for this debate. Just as someone can make an uber shivan bomber, I can make an even better terran/vasudan/lizard ship (Stats wise). So whatever point you were trying to make is moot.

canon vs canon only
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Offline Hippo

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Uh... Don't drag 3rd party stuff into a canonical debate.


Edit: Damn, Raa wins.
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Offline Mathwiz6

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Then the horror of 4... seraphim... nvm  :D

I prefer the ursa. The AI has NO defending capability (except as meatshields), and can't bomb worth anything. All the AI ever does for me is keeps things from shooting me. Then they die, and I die. But I get off some bombs in the meantime. Between the extra guns, the heavier armour, and the turret, the Ursa holds up far better then the Boanerges.

And in MP I bet that you get shredded either way, and should fly an artemis.

Classic... Inferno shivan bombers...  :ick: any time those bombs hit, you are done for. Really, 10 or so bombs to drop a destroyer, 50 for a super destroyer... there may be a problem.

And don't mention the Vindhyachal.

 

Offline Hippo

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Perhaps people need to start playing on difficulties such as Medium and Hard to see that the AI is a lot more than they make it out to be.
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Offline Mathwiz6

  • Pees numbers
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I always try to play on hard, and at worst (i.e. last mish of transcend) switch to easy.

And I know the AI is useless, because they never attack the sathanas  :D

No, really, it's that the people in Transcend only survive because of invulnerable tags.

Only time I saw AI owning was in ITDoH when you have the Admiral AI vs. the Lt. AI or so. That, is hilarious.

Really, the AI is fine, just people get killed way too easily when it shows its potential  :p

 

Offline Taristin

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You can edit the AI... but not in this discussion.
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Offline Col. Fishguts

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  • 211
You have to issue some well timed commands to get decent AI bombing runs. Order them to chase the nearest fighter while you take out the weapons subsystem.
Then order them in formation and fly to a good approach angle on the offending capship and then order them to attack your target. This usually results in a massive volley of bombs that won't be shot down, which in turn isn't very healthy for the capship in question.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 04:07:48 am by Col. Fishguts »
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Offline Mars

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In Slaying Ravana I find that taking Alpha wing to a position directly above the Ravana before ordering an attack greatly increases the amount of damage they do before succumbing to interceptors / beams.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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In Slaying Ravana I find that taking Alpha wing to a position directly above the Ravana before ordering an attack greatly increases the amount of damage they do before succumbing to interceptors / beams.
I find equipping them with Ursas makes them not die at all.
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<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
I discovered that as well.
<On "Their Finest Hour">
The GTVA sure knows how to launch feint attacks. You have the Colossus with her engines shut off, her battle group (all three ships) who apparently had problems with their weapon reactors, and a motley crew of fighters. No wonder the Bastion's escorts got decimated.