[karajorma]

It's been extensively tested on fit healthy soldiers. Why would that make you think that it might have different effects on the sick, elderly or very young?

[Shade]

Or those using excessive hair spray?  *imagines image of spikey-haired guy's head spontaneously erupting into flames*

[NGTM-1R]

How do we know this can't?  i mean, how extensively has it been tested and on who?

Okay, this is less likely to kill you. Although perhaps you'll start having funny-looking kids.

[KappaWing]

This seems all pretty ****ed up to me... Sure it's a great technology and all, but this is bound to end up in the wrong hands. Mark my words!!! 

Its just too easy to abuse.... The not leaving a mark part just makes it easier.... As soon as any extremist african or midde eastern government gets their hands on this tech, many, MANY innocent people will suffer. Assuming anyone could steal this weapon (and it will happen), would you trust just anyone with this?

[Shade]

Or how long until some kid replicates it using a few magnetrons and a metal box for directional containment? Add a car battery and instant schoolyard winner.

[Mathwiz6]

If I'm extremist, why do I bother not leaving marks?

As it is, there are plenty of ways to cause pain. Another is no big deal. Wanna hurt people at a kilometer? Long range weaponry is here.

Heck, as it is, extremists have nukes. The end is nigh.


(I advocate... The Devil!  )

Interesting combination, kids, car batteries, and microwaves.... How about car battery acid? And if I can get away with bringing that, I could bring say, a knife, right? Easier to conceal...

(The opinions expressed above have nothing to do with the opinions of the writer. He's slightly odd)

[Quest_techie]

Wow. Some of you are quite clearly psychotic. "Oh, it hurts people without physically damaging them...HOW IMMORAL. BAD BAD! Stick with guns!"

I think the ADS is a great development. Better than getting shot with a taser or, god forbid, a BULLET, which actually CAN kill you.

Actually, it hurts people without leaving physical evidence.......we've seen with tasers that the supposed non-lethalaity of a weapon often makes people more inclined to use it.

No, it hurts you without leaving anything. At the absolute best, the ADS effect is capable of penetrating 1/64th of an inch into human skin. All it does is excite water molecules in your skin. (however, it can cause small burns if set to a very high powerlevel).

In addition, the thing is, currently, vehicle mounted only. You need a jeep to mount the transmitter. In regards to tasers, Police Officers are typically very restricted in how they can use it, and I don't  expect restrictions on the ADS to be any lighter (In fact, it'll probably be even moreso).

Thing is, everybody thinks it's great because 'They won't use it on me, I'm a law abiding citizen'. Then a law gets passed that forces everyone to wear location transmitters, or the like. The public get up annoyed and demonstrate and out comes the ADS together with a cry of 'Where's your right to public assembly now peasants?'.

First: I'd love to see that law even TRY to get passed. Not gonna happen.

Second: Like Tasers, Beanbags, Rubber Bullets, or good old fashioned Tear Gas can't do the EXACT SAME THING? Compared to those, ADS is a dream come true.

you have missed a lot of laws that have been passed haven't you? and things that don't even have to be laws, look up executive orders, look at how terrifying those sons of *****es can be

as to tasers being regulated

I would laugh at that statement if it weren't so tragic, tasers are misused because they are nonlethal, and there are corrupt police, and the candycane and gumdrop world where people pretend that regulations always work is a ****ing lie

there is a video floating around the internet where some lady from florida got tased two to three times for swearing at a cop and being noncompliant, not resisting arrest, just being non compliant <not getting out of her car specifically> the original sell of tasers waas hat they were to subdue violent individuals without having to kill them

so now we're shooting a woman who could easily be taken out of her car through traditional, much less painful methods, and putting electric shocks through her body, and then shocking her more when she is on the ground and not rolling onto her belly and putting her hands behind her back

now, I've seen this on google video and youtube, I figure it's public domain enough that you'd be able to find it, feel free to look, the woman is being a pain in the ass, but nothing she does earns tasing, doesn't matter what those sons of *****es regulations are, what they did was wrong

so, please, box up your naivete and send it back to candyland where they can use it

[KappaWing]

Thank you for saying what I couldent, Quest Techie. 

[Jetmech Jr.]

For the love of...!

Listen, it is not that insanely easy for people to get this kind of technology! THIS THING IS JUST OUT OF THE PROTOTYPE PHASE! I can still only be mounted on VEHICLES. It won't penetrate a solid barrier, like oh, say, a goddamn wall. It WON'T kill you, it can't even penetrate your epidermis, unless the users have full intent to kill you and jack up the force as much as possibe, in which case it's no different from some pistol you pick up out of the local gunstore. Used in an Urban enviornment, it's range would be liimited to sight.

HOW ****ING OFTEN DO YOU SEE THE ELDERLY OR EXTREMELY YOUNG PARTICIPATING IN A RIOT?! This is a RIOT SUPPRESSION DEVICE. It is as unnatural and SUPREMELY UNFAIR to assume some secret shadow government or corrupt police officer is going to use this stuff to torture Joe Average as it is to naturally assume they'll lock you down in a seat and spray mace in your face all day or tickle you with a ****ing feather till you can't breathe. You'd have better odds of being mauled by a shark in Arizona.

"Or how long until some kid replicates it using a few magnetrons and a metal box for directional containment? Add a car battery and instant schoolyard winner?" Are you serious? Just...wow. I could buy something that performs much the same function. It's called a prank shock lighter .

@Quest_techie: Shove your ignorance speech and Bush-esque Fear-mongering. Naivete is superbly demonstrated in your own post, assuming the few videos some idiots posted on Youtube is representative of the U.S. Police Force as a whole? Spare me the nonsense, please. It's even more ludicrous to actually believe that your average police officer is going to hijack a Jeep loaded with the most advanced Laser-based Suppression device to come out in recent years and blast various innocent people in the face.

I can barely keep the flood of incredulity I feel towards your points contained.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Currently, it's not even available to the Average police force. It's used as a deterrent for mobs against Soldiers in Iraq, a way to protect WITHOUT firing lethal weaponry. In order to be used as a police device, it would have to be MASSIVELY MORE PORTABLE, and smaller size typically comes at the cost of power output. I doubt any public released version would be capable of much at all.

[Shade]

Wow, talk about going over the edge. Think it's time to just walk away until this calms down to a less hostile level of discussion.

[Nuclear1]

Which is why the weapon need heavy regulation about when it can and can not be used.

That's not going to do any good.  If the government writes the rules, then the government can interpret the rules how it wants.  How about just getting rid of the weapon for good?  Americans need to start exercising them First Amendment rights before it gets out of hand.  Sure, people who are law-abiding citizens might not be afraid because they see the government as just and unwilling to punish the innocent, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.  When governments stoop to this level to quell rioters or large-scale demonstrations, someone has to step up and say it's wrong; they can't simply wait until it comes for them.  There's an old quote from government class that I think applies nicely:

First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

Cookie to whoever can guess the source without Google.

[Jetmech Jr.]

People:



Meet the M82A1 Barret Sniper Rifle. It has an effective range of 1.5 Kilometers, maybe 2 if you're good. It is capable of firing up to 10 Armour piercing rounds in as many seconds. Being hit by this will cost you one of 2 things: A limb, or your life. It can punch through a concrete wall. Untraceable, as you're brains will be splattered all across the room you're in before you hear the shot.

Cry about that. You'll be making a better case than you have for the ADS.

but a line has to be drawn somewhere.  When governments stoop to this level to quell rioters or large-scale demonstrations, someone has to step up and say it's wrong

They already use Tazers, stun guns, mace, and rubber bullets. How is this worse?

[Nuclear1]

but a line has to be drawn somewhere.  When governments stoop to this level to quell rioters or large-scale demonstrations, someone has to step up and say it's wrong

They already use Tazers, stun guns, mace, and rubber bullets. How is this worse?

I don't doubt that the police need some sort of device to quell riots when innocent lives are at stake or when the general welfare is threatened, but do we really need something that feels like you're being dipped in lava repeatedly?  It just seems a little excessive, IMO.  I think that's what everybody's saying here.

It just frightens me sometime how far we've come technologically.  If used for the right reasons, science and new gadgets can be used for the best; say, through medical treatments, leisure, and aiding the elderly.  What frightens me, however, is how governments can lower themselves to use this technology to find new and shinier ways to inflict unnecessary pain on civilians, be they in occupied territories or on their own soil.  It really says something about people in power, doesn't it?

[Jetmech Jr.]

but a line has to be drawn somewhere.  When governments stoop to this level to quell rioters or large-scale demonstrations, someone has to step up and say it's wrong

They already use Tazers, stun guns, mace, and rubber bullets. How is this worse?

I don't doubt that the police need some sort of device to quell riots when innocent lives are at stake or when the general welfare is threatened, but do we really need something that feels like you're being dipped in lava repeatedly?  It just seems a little excessive, IMO.  I think that's what everybody's saying here.

It just frightens me sometime how far we've come technologically.  If used for the right reasons, science and new gadgets can be used for the best; say, through medical treatments, leisure, and aiding the elderly.  What frightens me, however, is how governments can lower themselves to use this technology to find new and shinier ways to inflict unnecessary pain on civilians, be they in occupied territories or on their own soil.  It really says something about people in power, doesn't it?

I really wouldn't take that reporters words at face value, unless anyone really believes they know what being dipped in lava would feel like. A paintball to the throat could be described as feeling like someone just closelined you with a telephone wire. A beanbag to the Chest could be described as feeling like you got hit by a truck. Really all that is known about the ADS' effects that is NOT influenced by opinion and life experience is that it heats up your outer layer of skin to 130 degrees Fahrenheit, a not criminally damaging temperature, although certainly painful. It's effects don't even persist, which can't be said about virtually any other form of weapon or suppression device.

In addition, technology such as this is hardly surprising during wartime. I argue that it is still exceedingly better than the firing of actual guns or the like, which is what my above post indicated.

[Janos]

People:



Meet the M82A1 Barret Sniper Rifle. It has an effective range of 1.5 Kilometers, maybe 2 if you're good. It is capable of firing up to 10 Armour piercing rounds in as many seconds. Being hit by this will cost you one of 2 things: A limb, or your life. It can punch through a concrete wall. Untraceable, as you're brains will be splattered all across the room you're in before you hear the shot.

Cry about that. You'll be making a better case than you have for the ADS.

but a line has to be drawn somewhere.  When governments stoop to this level to quell rioters or large-scale demonstrations, someone has to step up and say it's wrong

They already use Tazers, stun guns, mace, and rubber bullets. How is this worse?

Barrett kills people.

Non-lethal weapons do not.

The step to use non-lethal weapons is lower than the step to use lethal weapons.

Government has monopoly on both.

Both are effective at crowd dispersal, riot control and minor civil offences.

Calculate.

[Nuclear1]

I really wouldn't take that reporters words at face value, unless anyone really believes they know what being dipped in lava would feel like. A paintball to the throat could be described as feeling like someone just closelined you with a telephone wire. A beanbag to the Chest could be described as feeling like you got hit by a truck. Really all that is known about the ADS' effects that is NOT influenced by opinion and life experience is that it heats up your outer layer of skin to 130 degrees Fahrenheit, a not criminally damaging temperature, although certainly painful. It's effects don't even persist, which can't be said about virtually any other form of weapon or suppression device.

In addition, technology such as this is hardly surprising during wartime. I argue that it is still exceedingly better than the firing of actual guns or the like, which is what my above post indicated.

I'm not saying that the reporter's words are to be taken literally.  All I'm saying is that the government shouldn't need weapons like this to use against civilians, domestic or foreign, wartime or peacetime.  I don't disagree with funding military research to keep the US military on the cutting edge, but I don't believe in developing weapons which have the sole duty to exact terrible pain on an individual or a crowd.  Lethal, conventional weapons I don't disagree with; it's stuff like chemical weapons and ADS that I find to be pushing the limit.

[Quest_techie]

For the love of...!

Listen, it is not that insanely easy for people to get this kind of technology! THIS THING IS JUST OUT OF THE PROTOTYPE PHASE! I can still only be mounted on VEHICLES. It won't penetrate a solid barrier, like oh, say, a goddamn wall. It WON'T kill you, it can't even penetrate your epidermis, unless the users have full intent to kill you and jack up the force as much as possibe, in which case it's no different from some pistol you pick up out of the local gunstore. Used in an Urban enviornment, it's range would be liimited to sight.

HOW ****ING OFTEN DO YOU SEE THE ELDERLY OR EXTREMELY YOUNG PARTICIPATING IN A RIOT?! This is a RIOT SUPPRESSION DEVICE. It is as unnatural and SUPREMELY UNFAIR to assume some secret shadow government or corrupt police officer is going to use this stuff to torture Joe Average as it is to naturally assume they'll lock you down in a seat and spray mace in your face all day or tickle you with a ****ing feather till you can't breathe. You'd have better odds of being mauled by a shark in Arizona.

"Or how long until some kid replicates it using a few magnetrons and a metal box for directional containment? Add a car battery and instant schoolyard winner?" Are you serious? Just...wow. I could buy something that performs much the same function. It's called a prank shock lighter .

@Quest_techie: Shove your ignorance speech and Bush-esque Fear-mongering. Naivete is superbly demonstrated in your own post, assuming the few videos some idiots posted on Youtube is representative of the U.S. Police Force as a whole? Spare me the nonsense, please. It's even more ludicrous to actually believe that your average police officer is going to hijack a Jeep loaded with the most advanced Laser-based Suppression device to come out in recent years and blast various innocent people in the face.

I can barely keep the flood of incredulity I feel towards your points contained.

wow, so you ARE a moron

police regularly swab protesters in lines and other non mobile situations <folk who chain themselves to trees> with pepper spray that is FAR from mace, again, candycanes and gumdrops, elderly protesters, what about all those aging hippies? I see a fair number of quite old protesters, also, paents of people in iraq, a lot of them are quite old, spouses of reactivated soldiers, since they upped the age for reactivation, dang, they've gotten into a pretty old age bracket too

and did you ever consider that heart disease, epilepsy and many other disorders that electroshock can set off, though often age linked <though epilepsy kicking in at puberty, hardly the age I suspect you were thinking> rarely show outward signs, and I wonder what the statistics are for people who are not elderly, but have electro magnetic devices that assist with the regulation of body function, I do not simplify to pace makers because in DBS a similar device is used to treat schizophrenia, depression, epilepsy, bipolar disorder, and a range of other diseases

gee, seems you are just spewing your ignorance as hard as you can eh?

this has nothing to do with "shadow governments" wow, paranoid aren't we? it has to do with the fact that often, when kit gets small and economical it gets down to street level, and if you didn't have your head where the sun doesn't shine you would see that miniturization is clearly a goal, it is a goal with any weapon system, lethal or non, as is making it more economical, the fact that this decive leaves no mark makes it extremly attractive to someone who wants to abuse their power in a position of authority, many police officers are police officers because they want that authority to be able to use it on other people, I am not saying most, I am not saying all, I am saying many, I am saying enough to make this a problem, I am saying that when I watch the interviews with police officers after the chicago dnc in the 60's whenever someone mentions hitting a kneecap or something and doing severe damage, which the messed up folk do there is a very disturbing manner about the way in which they do it

some learned cynicism and wisdom added to your bag of tricks would do you well, I disagree with you because I have seen what happens when people with lesser capabilities are given a better way to do their evil, as it is only a corrupt officer with some of his wits about him can get away with something, those who aren't smart enough to cover up the marks from the taser or the club don't get to think about abusing their power, with this mechanism, which will eventually get into more hands, more people will be able to abuse it, and sans the forensic trail to shut down those who would abuse this power this is indeed a dangerous path

I fear it in military hands, but I fear it in law enforcement hands far more

[Gank]

there is a video floating around the internet where some lady from florida got tased two to three times for swearing at a cop and being noncompliant, not resisting arrest, just being non compliant <not getting out of her car specifically> the original sell of tasers waas hat they were to subdue violent individuals without having to kill them

Shes lucky she wasnt shot dead, US police are quite notorious for that. As for this yoke, if my government was developing this sort of thing, I'd be pissed off, because you'd only spend this sort of time and money if you were expecting riots for some reason. Then again our governments there to protect the people, not control them.

[spartan_0214]

wow, so you ARE a moron

police regularly swab protesters in lines and other non mobile situations <folk who chain themselves to trees> with pepper spray that is FAR from mace, again, candycanes and gumdrops, elderly protesters, what about all those aging hippies? I see a fair number of quite old protesters, also, paents of people in iraq, a lot of them are quite old, spouses of reactivated soldiers, since they upped the age for reactivation, dang, they've gotten into a pretty old age bracket too

and did you ever consider that heart disease, epilepsy and many other disorders that electroshock can set off, though often age linked <though epilepsy kicking in at puberty, hardly the age I suspect you were thinking> rarely show outward signs, and I wonder what the statistics are for people who are not elderly, but have electro magnetic devices that assist with the regulation of body function, I do not simplify to pace makers because in DBS a similar device is used to treat schizophrenia, depression, epilepsy, bipolar disorder, and a range of other diseases

gee, seems you are just spewing your ignorance as hard as you can eh?

this has nothing to do with "shadow governments" wow, paranoid aren't we? it has to do with the fact that often, when kit gets small and economical it gets down to street level, and if you didn't have your head where the sun doesn't shine you would see that miniturization is clearly a goal, it is a goal with any weapon system, lethal or non, as is making it more economical, the fact that this decive leaves no mark makes it extremly attractive to someone who wants to abuse their power in a position of authority, many police officers are police officers because they want that authority to be able to use it on other people, I am not saying most, I am not saying all, I am saying many, I am saying enough to make this a problem, I am saying that when I watch the interviews with police officers after the chicago dnc in the 60's whenever someone mentions hitting a kneecap or something and doing severe damage, which the messed up folk do there is a very disturbing manner about the way in which they do it

some learned cynicism and wisdom added to your bag of tricks would do you well, I disagree with you because I have seen what happens when people with lesser capabilities are given a better way to do their evil, as it is only a corrupt officer with some of his wits about him can get away with something, those who aren't smart enough to cover up the marks from the taser or the club don't get to think about abusing their power, with this mechanism, which will eventually get into more hands, more people will be able to abuse it, and sans the forensic trail to shut down those who would abuse this power this is indeed a dangerous path

I fear it in military hands, but I fear it in law enforcement hands far more

Enough, both of you. Stop flaming each other and just present your opinion OF THE STORY!

This project hasn't come very far. We've developed it, but they're pretty expensive to make. The police don't need it, and they probably won't use it for some time. I do not condone the creation of this device, but nevertheless, we have it. We should NEVER use it, but then again, there are some out there who say we shouldn't use guns. Perhaps this is just another tool that we can use if things go terribly wrong. And finally, there are marks left on the person if they are exposed too long.

and a very small number of them walked away with redness and blisters from the beam's intense heat.