[FlareBaffled]

So far ... so good with my first model attempt. It's built and textured, and now I am working on getting the thing into a POF. I have the tools I need ( I think ) and have started the task. IT's really intened to be a testbed for all the things I will need to learn for the ships I have planned and sketched out, so I am really jumping in at the deep end here!

Here's what I HAVE done:

I am using the Max plugin, and have followed the instructions on the WIKI as closely as I am able. The model converts OK in it's basic form, but I have a few issues. The gun points, missile points and engine glows all appear to be correct when viewed in Modelview. Mesh is fine..as are levels of detail and damage 'chunks' for debris. I haven't tried the bits that it says don't work ( no point really! ) but there are some issues that are tripping me up and causing some head scratching!

1) Cockpit Texture.
I have made a cockpit interior which is textured with a second texture file. When I convert it, it seems to be stuck with the main hull texture...not it's own. How should I set up the texture in Max to allow the mesh to have multiple textures?

2) Textures.
I was using DDS / TGA files for texture, but Modelview does not support them to allow me to check that the textures are actually correct. I am having to make a copy in PCX format to view them. I have a seperate 'glass' texture for the cockpit windows which has an alpha channel in DDS form...but this dies a death in 8 bit PCX...so I don't know if this will actually work in game! Is this the right way of doing it...or do I actually need to learn to make a tbl file and view the game in the SCP version of the engine?

3) Guns!
Or..rather...ballistic guns. According to the WIKI and SCP files, it should be possible to make gatling type guns with spinning barrels for ballistic primary weapons. How should I configure this for the MAx plugin so the parts are correctly rigged in heirarchy to work without crashing the plugin?

4) Finally....sub-objects!
I tried to make the cockpit/glass seperate child objects of the main hull to avoid some of hte issues I had above with textures etc. This seems to make the plugin really throw it's toys out of the pram! Having detail-0 with a child object of 'cockpit' and another of 'glass' seemed to kill it every time. I know the geometry is OK, since I did hte 'test' conversion on the model before I seperated them...and again AFTER I had welded them back on. The thing only failed with the seperate. When I named a subobject as 'turret-01' or somesuch...the plugin was happy! Are there 'allowed' names that it will work with and anything else chokes it?

Once I have got these ironed out, the Gladius fleet defence fighter will be just about ready!

[Scooby_Doo]

1) Cockpit Texture.
I have made a cockpit interior which is textured with a second texture file. When I convert it, it seems to be stuck with the main hull texture...not it's own. How should I set up the texture in Max to allow the mesh to have multiple textures?

Make sure the hull materials and cockpit materials are completely seperate standard materials... not a multi/sub-object. Use the material eye dropper on the hull if it comes back as multi/sub-object that might be the problem. (i dunno)

Also make sure the cockpit tub is a seperate model from the hull.  I don't know if this applies to Max exporter but it does with the convert to cob route, 3ds filenames are 8.3.

[FlareBaffled]

Got a stable conversion working pretty much as I intended it. I now need to get the eyepoint right for viewin form inside the cockpit, and sort out the weapons so they work as they should. Here is the progress so far:



I made the conversion work by simply naming the parts I needed ( cockpit, glass ) as 'turretxx' and the thing exported them correctly. It did not set them up as turrets, since they did not have firepoints on them... but they appear as sub-models. Hopefully I can make them into what I need once they are in the POF. At least I have it in game!

[FlareBaffled]

OH...and just to de-rail my happiness at getting a ship in game and working.... the game CTD's when you destroy one of my new ships. No error message... just a blackscreen and the game is done.

[Taristin]

That seems to be a common problem with the MAX exporter plugin :/ All of my models do the same thing. I dont know how to fix it. Strattcomm fixed my other ones with a hex editor iirc.

[FlareBaffled]

There seem to be other people using MAx to convert without problems.... tere must be a way to get around this!

There is NO WAY that I am going to start learning another completely different modelling too just to put models in game here.... I don't have the time. And from what I have seen of Truespace, this is not just a slightly different program, it is totally different in terms of approach, tools, methods and thinking. I am an old dog...and Truespace is a new trick.

[Getter Robo G]

Fine convert your files to .3ds format (NOT MAX!!) and I will use 3d exploration to turn them into .cobs and convert them like normal...

or you can do it your self thanks to Karajorma
LINKY!!!  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/Downloads/3DExplorer_v181.rar



(LIGHTBULB) RAPTOR!!! Are you using the Max exporter on  the BSG TOS ships and that's why they are crashing on me??? 

[FlareBaffled]

Turning the thing into a COB file is easy to do ( I have Deep Exploration...the successor to 3D Explorer ) and I have downloaded the free copy of Truespace 3.2

I still don't seem to be able to make anything work here. The thing crashes PCS with a 'stack overflow' caused by too many faces in the same place ( I think that's what it said ). Seems to be a common problem with complex ship designs ...even though mine isn't complex really! I can't even make the ship convert in COB2POF. No idea why.

At the end of all that.... I am no closer to working out why my ship model crashes on destruction, yet works fine in game for all other functions. I have tried to make the GTDBigCube and converting that to see if I can actually make a viable model that works in game.

What baffles me, though, is the fact that I can't make the sample example ship file convert into a workable model too. It CTD's in EXACTLY the same way. That has really simple geometry ( just a cube with extruded faces and a meshsmooth for the high detail model ) simple stock textures and nothing complex at all.

Is there ANYTHING in the table file that might cause the same effect?

Failing that, can someone who has made ships with the Max plugin THAT ACTUALLY WORK make him/herself known.....

Otherwise, I am either going to have to pack up my modding aspirations in a sack...add several bricks...and lob them in the nearest river! I don't fancy learning Truespace ( wierd icons and menus at the bottom of the screen.... ) due to it's rather unique approach and complete lack of use to me for any other job.

[Getter Robo G]

"The thing crashes PCS with a 'stack overflow' caused by too many faces in the same place "

   Kazaan translates this as "It's your fault. Fix your model."

I Translate this as, "make your model bigger in incriments of 5-10% at a time UNTIL it finally works!"
I had to do this with the vf-22, supposed to be a fighter, now size of a large gunship...

  I am not a modler and Kazaan has never physically seen the hundreds of models I converted so he blames them as "bad Geometry".  I am curious to see if PCS2 will suffer from the same weakness of it's predecessor in regards to this facet of conversion. A stronger buffer for the stack overflow (if possible) might solve teh problem, but then again I am NOT a coder either...

[FlareBaffled]

Following those errors in PCS, I made a few attempts at making a successful model from the sample max mesh included with the plugin, and I can't make that work from Max either. It always CTD's. I checked it through in Modelview, and the only thing it mentioned was a null vector on the eye-point, which I fixed. That still crashed!

IT was a very simple model, so I tried it with a conversion to COB etc. and this worked ( after a fashion ). The model was pointed the wrong way and huge...but it blew up! I need to understand what the heck is going on with Truespace and heirarchy...all that 'glue on a light' business to make valid groups is pretty bizarre. Why can't it just have geometry without a light....Gawd help us!

PLEASE...somebody tell me the Max plugin can work...PLEASE!

[Getter Robo G]

I can tell you the Max plug works (but it's a percentage) you got people who will swear BY it, and then others who just swear AT it! 

In truespace you want your model pointed to the "left", as for size keep reducing until it finally crashes and then that's as small as it can be. (sorry).

now I gotta go experiment with an old favorite. The Imperial Romulan Warbird -the Preator's ship. I cut 112 textures down to 60, but that's not gonna fly. In retail 49 would be ok but for my purposes I need 15 (cause the 16th is gonna be invisible to replace the temp one for flush  turrets). 

I will use one texture for all just to see if it works in game, cause it's been like over 3 months since I converted anything.

Luck to us both!

[StratComm]

Yeah, well, I swear up and down at Truespace so the Max plugin is by far the lesser of two evils

The crashing tends to be caused by a faulty shield mesh, so if you've got a shield on your ship take it off and see if the problem persists.  The texture just means you've got something a little funny with your texture setup in Max, set up each map as its own specific texture and apply them to the different parts.

As for the parts of the model as subobjects, that's the intended behavior of the plugin but it's not what you want.  It can all be part of one object, but the glass must be part of the hull mesh, and it must be attached last.

[FlareBaffled]

StratComm...you are THE MAN! 

I removed the shiled mesh, recompiled the ship, and it worked superbly. It showed the MOI bug ( which I knew about but saw little point in fixing until I had a ship that didn't crash the game when it blew... and it even showed up the debris chunks!

For good measure, I re-attached the glass for the cockpit screen, and this , while showing up with the hull texture in Max...worked fine in game. Thanks to you, I will not have to dip my toes in the murky waters of Truespace.... a modelling program of some dubious opinion from what I can gather!

Whilst the Max plugin is fussy about naming and needs some tidying up of the POF after conversion, it is most definitely the more diminutive example of the species 'Otiorhynchus sulcatus '*





*otherwise known as the vine weevil. Or...in plain English..the lesser of two weevils 

[Taristin]

Shield bugs eh? How would I make shields for my ships, then, if I cant export with them?

[StratComm]

Those I still run through PCS and then import in to a Max generated model.  Clunky, I know, but it works reliably.  And because the shield is untextured and unsmoothed, the Max->3ds->cob->pof conversion doesn't really screw anything up.  The source of the bug was identified but apparently never fixed.

EDIT: I should probably be specific on the running them through PCS thing.  What I typically do is make the shield mesh in Max just like I would export it as part of the model.  I then copy that mesh into a new scene and put down some simple dummy object like a cube and export the pair of them as 3ds.  Then I get them in to Truespace, fix up the heirarchy, and save out the cob for PCS to convert.  I then save that dummy POF, open the max exported POF in PCS, and import the shield from the dummy.  Needless to say, get the model working correctly before you bother with this, as it can be a real pain in the ass.

[nubbles526]

Looks nice, the sword design (sry if its something else if I mistaken). Name? Type? Specials?

[FlareBaffled]

The sword inspired shape is intentional...hence the name! A  Gladius was the classical Roman short sword..though the shape has actually ended up more like a bronze age leaf shaped blade....

Anyway.... it's intended to be a short range fleet defence fighter. Lightly armoured and with limited endurance... emphasis is on speed and manouverability, with a killer punch to take down incoming bombers

[Scooby_Doo]

If your having problems with stack overflow, or just locking up, this sometimes helps.

Using truespace remove subobjects from the model (check the lods first). Keep removing until you find the problem subobject(s).

Go back into Max and make a box that completely encompasses that bad subobject.  Do a boolean intersect on it, allow material inheritance, and you should end up with a new object that looks identical to the original.  That works for me quite a bit... and when it doesn't your in trouble 

[FlareBaffled]

Past experience has taught me to avoid booleans whenever and wherever possible! They are a top notch way of making polygons you don't want and leaving nasties in geometries that are best avoided!

[Scooby_Doo]

Well your not booleaning part of the subobject, your booleaning the entire subobject.  Also if your booleaning parts, ALWAYS go back and clean up the geometry, i.e. merge vertices that aren't really needed. 

Don't forget STL checker in Max is your friend 
Also if you want to get rid of any hidden polys, go in poly edit mode, select all the polys, then go back and unselect all the good polys one at a time.  Once their all gone, double check the remaining ones (they could be good and you didn't notice them before) then delete the extras