[Jeb Hoge]

I think the "weak Colossus" arguments, and I'd say the gameplay as a whole, falls apart once you start rearming ships to suit your BFG9000 preferences. Just like using weapons cheats to give a Perseus a Shivan super laser makes the game really funny for a few minutes, then it gets boring.

Having said that, the tactics that the Colossus captain uses against the Sathanas are inexplicable. However, history is loaded with examples of ship captains with serious firepower just doing dumb things.

[ShivanSpS]

You can be sure of that, the Colossus own any Sathanas from the sides.

The Shivans are focusing in puting all firepower on front, that is a mistake, a huge one, you need small ships which firepower on front, like the Rakshasa, the Lilith which her LRed, the Aeolus and Deimos, the Sobek... anyway, but larger ships need to have massive firepower to cover all sides. The Colossus just need better reactors and get rid of all of the Laser turrets, and reemplace him by anti-fighters and anti-warship beams.

The Colossus is just too big to have any use of the laser turrets... well all laser turrets are a little obsolete.

The GTVA need to remove the laser turrets, improve the reactors and place beams and more flaks on its ships.

The point is, you actually NEED ships which firepower on all sides, and also firepower on front, and them you need smaller ships which much firepower on front(Aeolus), and other one which mostly of the firepower on front and also firepoer on sides(Deimos), the Deimos just need to have 4 forward beam turrets, their just need to reemplace those laser turrets for anti-fighter beams, or anti-warship. and add 1 anti-warship turret on each side.

For me, the Terrans have better ships, just need a little work on them. The Shivans commited a big mistake on making ships only which firepower on front(Sathanas, Rakshasa, Ravana)... what their are planing for? just make hit and run missions? Well I have no idea on know to considerate the Cain, Liliths and Moloch, their can fire on front and sides too, just which a limited angle. The Demon can fire on sides and front too, if the ship is biger enoght (those 2 laser turrets on the front of the Demon are very good to put another 2 LReds, but that will make the Demon even more powerfull than the Ravana.

[TrashMan]

The Colossus is a mean customer. In the mission wheree it perishes it usually doens't fire even a shot since the Sath jumps in just outside it's beam cannon range and the Collie doesn't move.
I moved the Sath a bit closer so it actually comes in range of most ofh te Collies weaponry.

When I re-played the mission the Colossus was pulverized, but managed to take the Sath with him with it's final beam salvo before atomization (and don't forget that the Collie starts damaged!)

[AlphaOne]

So basicly that means that the Collie was in fact a better shipthen the Sath right???

[Bob-san]

Why not use the long-range beams instead of moving the ships?

[TrashMan]

Becoause moving the Sath 500m closer is more fair than giving the Colossus uber beamz of death.

[Bob-san]

THat's true if the normal variation do NOT have a long-range version. (I just check and they do not have the long-range version.)
Sorry; you're right; moving it 500m closer is more fair then changing out the beams.

The Big C really needed better beams... -.-

[S-99]

GTVA could successfully make another colossus then. But they should make dumb**** contingency plans for jugs. Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out. The GTVA only had one of them, and needs to treat in such a way. Well, the gtva already does this, just the captain was a dumb**** and didn't want to warp out. Idk why the collie had to get destroyed in that mission from a defiant captain, i mean, it's not like the sath is going to make it to your position with the rest of the friendlies in that mission any time soon

[Mars]

GTVA could successfully make another colossus then. But they should make dumb**** contingency plans for jugs. Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out. The GTVA only had one of them, and needs to treat in such a way. Well, the gtva already does this, just the captain was a dumb**** and didn't want to warp out. Idk why the collie had to get destroyed in that mission from a defiant captain, i mean, it's not like the sath is going to make it to your position with the rest of the friendlies in that mission any time soon

The issue is, even if the Colossus had had good beams, there's only one of it, and 80+ Sathani, it would be better to come up with several destroyer sized Monitors which sport one huge, Jug killing beam, so that they could deal with more Jugs faster.

[Mehrpack]

hi,
nice discussion, but i think we miss here something.
then thats is a game and in my opionen, if you ask was the colossus a fault or wasnt succeed i think you have to take a second look: the atmosphere.

i mean as i saw that the colossus die, it was a shock (with a nice sad explosion).
but if you have 300 or 3000 other ships, thats not the same, i mean how many smaller ships do you lost in the campaine, a lot.
yeah its hurt if you lost a ship but not so much if you lost so an unique, important and big ship.
there not die only a ship, there die the hope, too.

maybe 3000 smaller ships are better, technical, but for a game and the atmosphere itsself, i think one big ship are better.

to the technical: i didnt think thats its a completly fault.
so a great ship have a good moral effect and its a good blocker, can handle greater problems and can serve as a mobile space station.

but i think the only one really fault its the repair.
they build so a great ship but the repairing technical isnt good enaugh to bring it with light damage back to 100% in a no time.
i mean 80% opertional but serverl months for the completly repair? thats madness.
thats a battleship and not a sature in a museum.
its build to take damage and its build to fight enemies.

so i think, its was to early for the colossus or a ship with that size and complexness.

Mehrpack

[Snail]

Hello. Please play this battle of endor mission.

Colossus default loadout vs. 8 Orions default loadout

Colossus usually looses but takes many Orion down with it.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[SadisticSid]

Why use 5 Orions? You're bound to lose at least one or two if not three or four. Using the Colossus instead means you have a far bigger chance at preserving your investment as, even if it's on 1% hull integrity, it survives. Past experience in FS1 and 2 has shown the GTVA can repair terminally damaged capital ships between missions.... so it's much, much wiser.

[Snail]

Colossus got pawned by 8 Orions. Remove one Orion it wins by a (unsafe) margin.

[Mars]

Those missions are never really accurate, there's too many variables, and the AI sucks.

[karajorma]

Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out.

Even if it's disabled and unable to jump like the Colossus was?

The fact is that the mission was screwed over by what are probably last minute changes. The colossus was disabled and the other ships had their beams locked. Whatever outcome originally had planed was probably lost in those changes too.

Personally I would have prefered it if the mission should have ended with the colossus bravely turning to face the Sathanas while everyone else had to jump out. We should never have seen the Colossus destroyed.

[Bob-san]

The least they should have done for the Big C was let it take down that Sathanas and then be destroyed... much more fitting due to the fact that the final salvo from the Big C is said to take down the Sathanas...

[Snail]

Personally I would have prefered it if the mission should have ended with the colossus bravely turning to face the Sathanas while everyone else had to jump out. We should never have seen the Colossus destroyed.

But then we'd never see the SPLITTING EXPLOSION of the thing dying, and then holding back the tears and jumping out.

Actually there were many waypoints and everything for the Colossus before dying. Even one called 'deathpoint'.

[Bob-san]

Mine was disabled from the Demon I think...

The first time I played through the mission (in OEM, i went into Multiplayer) I had a messed-up loadout... I was going to help the Collie by destroying one of the Sathana's beams... I never quite got that far. I ended up simply sitting there and watching the battle... I coulda made it if I woulda put power to engines and just afterburner there... it was some 15km I think.

[Snail]

Ugh, I destroyed the Saths beams on one of my first run-through's, and guess what? Sat there for about 30 minutes on x4 before the timer died (or was it me?).

[Bob-san]

On which mission? The final mission?

Did you make the mistake on disabling the wrong ship? if you did that then (as you prolly kno) Capella never goes supernovae.