Author Topic: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?  (Read 17348 times)

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I'm surprised that there isn't a reconstruction of the Deimos-Class corvette. Those things were rock solid kick ass machines. The only weakness they had was the lack of a fighter bay, and a lack of decent beams at the rear.

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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I'm surprised that there isn't a reconstruction of the Deimos-Class corvette. Those things were rock solid kick ass machines. The only weakness they had was the lack of a fighter bay, and a lack of decent beams at the rear.

The Deimos only needs to change those two rear anticap beam cannons to something better and thats it, adding a fighterbay would be useless since it would get its fighter cover from the Hecate.

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
ok ppl, this has been a long, dificult and little boring Fred day :P, so, i decided "play" with the GTVA Fleet Weapons, using data from this tropic.

Basicly, i decommised all "Terran Turrets" and his variants...

I especialy prouly of what i have done with the Colossus, Hades and the Mentu, the Colossus is now much more powerfull, i reeplace some of those terslash for SGREENs (just 4 o 5, not all...), and i change the SGREEN of front for a BGREEN, and al lot of turret change... the Colossus have 63 turrets (And dev info on the table sugest that in a beginning the Colossus have 80 turrets).

The Hades... well... is better to not get close without "some" trebs... i warnt you, and you didt listen :P

The Mentu... well i noticed that the GTVA dont have a cruiser capable of shoot beams at sides, so now the Mentu have 2 SVAS... one on each side, and keep they "anti-fighter" role very high too... be adviced to be caution on the Iceni mission :P

And the Aten now have a anti-cap beam

and a lot more changes... take a look... xD

Put this ships.tbl in your "mediavps/data/tables"... and you can play the retail fs2 campaign with the modified ships weaponry (as long :V: didt not change one of then).




[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 09:56:48 am by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline BS403

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
the Colossus have 63 turrets (And dev info on the table sugest that in a beginning the Colossus have 80 turrets

i made a collosus with 86 turrets but the game would crash when it fired all its beams
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I think you guys make one fatal mistake: you don't consider teamwork. Situations like "lone-mentu-attacked-by-Rakshasa-and-blown-to-bits" can't happen. Let's consider situation with one GTVA fighter wing+Mentu vs one Shivan fighter wing+Rakshasa. GTVA will win. Why? Because Rakshasa's beams won't do anything to Mentu, the most heavily armored GTVA cruiser. Mentu will eliminate Shivan fighters with GTVA wing's help, then fighters will disarm Rakshasa and slowly put it down. As c914 said "capships for everything are for nothing". 3km universal superdestroyer *will* loose against team of smaller specialised warships. So putting SVas to Aten/Mentu or 100-fighter hangar to Orion MKII (anyway next Orion is VERY hypothetical as technologies will be probably completely merged and next-generation GTVA fleet will be common for both Terrans and Vasudans) isn't good idea. If you don't believe me, we can do little wargames on ICQ/MSN/IRC. ;)

Fact: Rakshasa will get off at least one unopposed salvo from the forward beams. Three SReds will at the very least inflict a severe mauling on the Mentu. In all likelyhood it will manage to fire a second salvo of at least two beams no matter what happens.
Fact: Shivan fighter wing does not have to play your game, which pretty much invalidates your whole argument. They may instead opt to defend the Rakshasa from the GTVA fighter wing.
Fact: The Mentu cannot contribute significantly to its own defense against enemy capital craft.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Yes the fleet of the future integrates both terran and vasudan tech into single ships. But then again that could also be done right now. Also the scrapping of the Orion class now after capella would a mistake of monumental magnitude and would most definetly make things worse for the political council of the GTVA which is already in a very bad shape after the destruction of capella.

The Orion is the most seen and feared simbol of power in all of the GTVA ! It is something that terrans have come to love and fear and something which states the power of the terran species and its origins from SOL.

There is no other ship in the GTVA that can match the ORION is sheer firepower. I'm not talking about fighter crring abilaty but sheer firepower. The Hecate was suposed to be the ship that would take over from trhe Orion but as we see they overestimated its sheer firepower and well most of the times you see a hecate it either needs to be bailed out of trouble or is destroyed. So the question of scrapping the Orions has a definite answear by now and that is : HELL NO! Those things are just too powerfull to be discarded.

After capella I believe GTVA engenieres would try and further upgrade the Orion and reduce some of its weak points while keeping the overall flat boxy design of the ship which has proven to be much more efective then any other ship design so far.

So I believe that an Orion MK II would not only be very posible but even desirable.
Die shivan die!!
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Offline Qwer

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
ngtm1r - Mentu can take 5 salvos before being destroyed, due to high top speed (35m/s) it can maneuver and avoid beams, it can theoretically increase life to 6/7 salvos. Each of them is per 25 seconds. That means Mentu can stand for 125 (or 150-175 when maneuvering) seconds. Let's say Rakshasa will emerge 3000m from Mentu and open fire. Mentu will need one minute to get into fire range of AAA beams to get to fighters guarding Rakshasa. Two upper AAAs can help GTVA fighters a lot. I think GTVA will leave with two (maybe three) fighters. Then maneuver fight beetwen Rakshasa and Mentu will begin. Rakshasa has got its beam pointed froward and is 15m/s slower than Mentu so it could give perhaps one more shot (and only when lucky). That means Mentu will leave with around 20% before fighters disarm Rakshasa, one more will be lost because of Rakshasa's AF fire but that one-two remaining ones will help in beating it of. Everything becomes MUCH easier when fighters have got Stilettos, Rakshasa will get one salvo before its main cannons are destroyed. Also as I said before upgraded Mentu with less armor and improved AF weaponry (maybe even Stiletto II launcher, makes things even easier) would take down Shivan fighters quickly so GTVA fighters could concentrate on main Rakshasa beams. Even if everything I said fails, Mentu can simply retreat. ;)

AlphaOne - as I said Orions aren't bad design, they can remain in fleet for some time because of its superior AC firepower and quite large fighterbay. However Orion MKII isn't good idea, destroyer using both Terran and Vasudan tech will be much harder nut to crack. I think next generation GTVA destroyers should be split into two groups: AC Destroyers with massive froward firepower (Remember Asarte from Inferno R1? >D ) but weak AF weaponary and Carriers with lots of fighters and fighterbays but no beams (only disarming weapon like Stiletto II).

ShivanSPS - hmmm...let's see...:
- Fenris as old piece of junk with very weak reactor surely can't take Trebuchets (and remember, Trebs were prototypes available to elite squadrons only, I doubt any capship could have it in that short time, MAYBE 10 years after IIGW), not to mention other weapons, your Fenris would experience reactor failures if all its turrets would come into party.
- Leviathan much better but still a) Trebuchet, b) UltraAAA, it'd also have reactor failures if that beam would come online
- Faustus...well that thing now has got HUGE AF firepower, way too much for a civilian vessel :p
- Orion - that warship is already very powerful, it was miracle (or desingers' genius) that this old design has got both large fighterbay and the largest amount of AC firepower in regular fleet, adding additional BGreen and LRFlaks will cause VERY serious reactor failures
- Deimos - WAY too much AF firepower, I don't know where you plan to put all these Standard Flaks :p
- Aeolus - that thing is already very overpowered and reactor barely staying in one piece, like Orion massive reactor failure
- Aten - no comments, that ship would blow up if it'd fire SVas, not to mention VSlash :p
- Mentu - original set, weaker armor or reactor failure, the choice is yours ;)
- Typhon - Trebuchet
- Hatshepsut - Tornado+Trebuchet+way too much AF firepower, reactor failure sure.

Some other ships are also little too overpowered, but less than those above. BTW I'm preparing my own version of upgraded capships, should be released today evening. ;)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 04:04:10 am by Qwer »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
ngtm1r - Mentu can take 5 salvos before being destroyed, due to high top speed (35m/s) it can maneuver and avoid beams, it can theoretically increase life to 6/7 salvos.

This is pure fantasy. You don't dodge at 35m/s. You don't dodge anticap beams at all. Also your numbers are too high; it's less than that. A Rakshasa can destroy a corvette in five salvos. Believe me, I've watched it do it to a Demios. Similarly assuming the Shivans will be kind enough to jump in at anything short of max range (which is another kilometer!) is ridiculous.

Each of them is per 25 seconds. That means Mentu can stand for 125 (or 150-175 when maneuvering) seconds. Let's say Rakshasa will emerge 3000m from Mentu and open fire. Mentu will need one minute to get into fire range of AAA beams to get to fighters guarding Rakshasa. Two upper AAAs can help GTVA fighters a lot. I think GTVA will leave with two (maybe three) fighters.

You're again assuming that the Shivans will be kind enough to wander into the Mentu's firearcs. Which they probably will not be. And if the Shivan fighters choose to duck under it and attack? What then?
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
QWER i have just one thing to ask you: How in gods name did you figure out all of those pure fanatasy things?

The Orion had no powefailures due to reactor overload. It was the Typhoon that had such problems.

Also the Orion pays for its heavy AC firepower with aaaf defences. That ship is in desperate need of some more aaaf defences. Mi idea of an Orion MKII does not mean it has to have more AC firepower altough that could be a posibilaty (adding another beam cannon in front of it) but rather increasing its aaaf defences and hp to that of the Hathshepsuit. Such and upgrade and some minor tweaks in its overall design would make it a dedicated AC weapons platform with an average siuze fighterbay and more hp to withstand more punishment. Also we ahve seen that vasudan reactor's and powergrids can be succesfuly implemented in terran designed warship with a LOt of succes.

Want an example? DEIMOS! Also since when is the Deimos overpowered???? That thing is in desperate need of some upgrades to its main beam cannons I mean it is a superb aaaf defence platform for the fleets but then again it needs ideal position to make full use of its beams which a weak to say the least. Mi Idea would be to just scrap 2 of its beams and replace them with BG or vasudan heavy beams. Less damage from the vasudan beams but higher refire rate. then they BG counterparts.

Let's not forget that the tech room states that due to the masive amount of power generated by its reactors the Deimos can wield that much weaponry and has  such a high top speed.

I believe that replacing the 4 slashers with just 2 heavy beems would put just as much strain on the Deimos's reactors as the 4 slashers but it would make it that much deadlier.

Also at this point cruisers at least GTVA cruisers can not stand theyr ground agains any shivan warship especialy the newer cruiser designs or the Leviathan for that matter ! Hell even Destroyers can be in serious trouble if a Leviathan showes up and rely on theyr fighter/bommber wings to take out theyr beam cannons. I mean I have seen cruisers taken out in less then 3 seconds by shivan cruisers so dont tell me that a Mentu can duck it out with a shivan warship because that is pure fantasy.

THERE IS NO GTVA WARSHIP THAT CA DUCK IT OUT WITH ITS SHIVAN COUNTERPART!

Want to know why? Go check the weapons descriptions for shivan beam cannons and then compare them to theyr GTVA counterparts.

The only way GTVA warships can take out a ravana for example is because they send in wings of fighters/bommbers/interceptors to take out its heavy beam cannons and then and only then do they send in capital warships. I mean you have one ravana that took out 2 deimos corvettes almos at the same time faster then they could even get a reading of what it was that hit them and faster then they could initiate a subspace jump to flee or use theyr superior manouverabilaty to get out of its forward firing ark.


Also you keep sayng that the future of GTVA warships is in designs with forward mounted heavy beam cannons. I say to you go take a look at how i in a heavvy bommber can take out a destroyer by simply getting out of its forward firing ark and taking out from a distance its side mounted flacks aaaf beams etc with trebs.

Also since GTVA beam weaponry is desperatly inferior to shivan designs it would be a waste of time to try and beat them with theyr tactic. The shivans have greater numbers and superior tech to the GTVA. You anly build such ships if you are waging a war where you are the one that does the attacking but as we have seen the GTVA is the one dooing the DEFENDING!

Also look a the Ravana destroyer which a super offensive ship with masive amounts of firepower in its forwards firing ark. But when that ship is put on the defensive it is a piece of JUNK. I mean that ship could be taken out by a god damn cruiser from the side or a corvette in this case! Abnd it did got blown away by a corvette if you want to know a Sobek if i'm not mistake after GTVA Erynyes fighters took out its forward heavy beam cannons.

The GTVA has ships with all round firepower with a slight emphasis on defensive abylaties of the ship both in terms of AAAF and AC weaponry.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Qwer

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
ngtm1r - I've just made mission with me on Mentu with 35m/s vs Rakshasa 4000m in front of me and tested it three times. I had from 35% to 60% and dodged pretty well before I got to 1500m range. When Mentu gets close enough, Shivan fighters will be forced to engage GTVA (unless they want to be shot down by AAAs :p ).

AlphaOne - yeah yeah, techroom says Typhoon has got reactor failutes because it had the biggest problems with it, but using little logic you can conclude that Orion is already close to that. Why? Typhon and Orion are warships in similar age. Assumption that Typhon powergrid, reactors and so on aren't compatible with beams is right. But as you can see Orion has got little bigger firepower than Hatshepsut, brand new destroyer. The only driffence beetwen these two is AF coverage (Orion's AF is virtually nonexistant, Hatshepsut has got quite good one, still AF weapons takes less place&energy than beams) and hull. That means Orion must be quite close to problems Typhon had. That's why Typhon has got only two BVas'es.

About your vision of Orion MKII you describe universal desing = easy target for fleet of specialised ships. We had discussion on freespace.pl and came to conclusion that only corvettes can be universal, cruisers can hold little weapons and are either crap (Leviathan) or expensive (Aeolus) while making universal destroyer is complete waste. Look at Hecate. Average AC, average AF and average fighterbay (or at least similar, AC is smaller than AF and fighter capability). AC is sufficient for corvettes and cruisers, but destroyer will beat it. Fighter capability is enough to flood universal destroyers like Ravana or Demon, but what if it encounters carriers with bigger fighter capability? It'll encounter situation 150 vs 300 fighters and the only option will be to withdraw. Your Orion is just like Hecate, but more advanced and with smaller fighterbay. Don't you think making destoryer with two froward LRBGreens able to take down destroyer in two salovs remaining untouched plus some AF cruisers as escort would be better? If you don't belive me, we can do wargames on ICQ/MSN. ;)

About Deimos it doesn't need changed configuration. Deimos and Sobek are just two diffrent corvettes for two diffrent tasks. Deimos is escort corvette with better AF and larger number of weaker beams while Sobek is assault one with worse AF but all AC firepower in two VSlashes. If it can have much more powerful weaponary due to better reactor then why we don't see Deimos with two BGreens anywhere in campaign? Also Deimos and Sobek are warships from the same generation. Take a look at Aeolus comparing to Leviathan. Better hull, better top speed, better weaponary. The same could go to Deimos&Sobek vs. older corvettes (in theory because they don't exist). That kind of jump you're talking about (two BGreens instead of four TerSlashes) is impossible to be maintained. True, in theory Deimos could turn off two TerSlashes, increase reactor power and turn created reserve to froward beams changing them into BGreens, however it would be able to give only one salvo and then one-minute break before another BGreen fire or change into normal else it'd overload powergrid, everything has limitations (four TerSlashes deal 46200 damage per 30 seconds, two BGreens 52800, 6600 damage isn't much, but take a note that all 52800 comes from only two cannons while standard 46200 from four, that means front cannons' powergrid would be seriously overloaded if another 52800 would come after 30 seconds only).

About another few next lines a) read note to ngtm1r b) destroyers wouldn't be in serious trouble because Leviathan with one fighter wing would have to counter destroyer with 20 fighter wings c) Ravana destroyed Deimos (whenever I play Acidum escapes) because it overloaded its four beam cannons to BFReds (I wouldn't be suprised if it waited three minutes until its powergrid and reactors stabilised) d) GTVA could take down Shivan counterpart eaisly, imagine destroyer with no fighterbay, small AF coverage and two/three LRBGreens hitting Demon/Ravana from 8000m distance, if Shivans would get out alive then in very bad shape.

About few last ones I don't think future of GTVA will be large capships. I think their future are fighters and carriers. Look at Capella. Fighters handled themselves quite well while warships dropped down like flies. However basing completly on fighters and carriers isn't good idea so I think some capships are needed, mostly cruisers and corvettes, but also larger ones, including my proposition of destroyer with two/three long range beams. I just think universal capships (excluding corvettes) are for everything, but for nothing. Also fleet made of specialised capships requires TEAMWORK, not situations like "single X attacked by Shivan X and destroyed". So if you'd attack my AC destroyer with bomber, you'd have to face corvette with Trebuchets plus some escort fighters. ;) About beams I don't think GTVA beams are much weaker than Shivan ones (they're weaker, but not that much). Look closer at Shivan desings. Moloch has got weaker beams than Deimos/Sobek because of fighterbay, Liliths are rarely encountered (probably because Shivans have got very few of them), Rakshasa is powerful in AC, but it's AC desing, not universal like Aeolus/Leviathan, if GTVA would have AC cruiser, it'd be little weaker than it (maybe next-generation one would be stronger), the same goes to Ravana and Demon, they've got weak AF and smaller fighterbays than GTVA counterpart, that's why they've got superior firepower. About your last line I don't agree with you. Subspace changes war rules completly from static war (where defence counts more) to manevuer war (where it counts less and the best defence is assault). I think next-generation GTVA desings should have multiple jump drives (two for regular warships, three for carriers and assault desings). That'd allow GTVA warships to quickly change positions. Now defence doesn't count that much because AC warships can simply emerge in front of enemy battlegroup, destroy it with powerful front weaponary and escape. Side AC weaponary would be limited to small beams (on escort corvettes and large AC desings) and Stiletto II (on everything). Of course as I said before there'd be lots, lots of fighters, but in that case giving too many side AC weaponary is impractical and unnessesery because they limit assault abilities.

BTW little note on Colossus vs Sathanas. As you might've seen Colossus has got 240 fighters in its fighterbay. I think that's reason why it's seriously outclassed by Sathanas in AC firepower. Colossus with LRBGreens (overloaded) deals 400000 damage per 30 seconds, Sathanas with normal weaponary (4 BFReds) deals 1200000 per 30 seconds. Now let's take fighterbay from Colossus and half of AF weaponary. I've calculated that would increase Col's firepower by 3. Now it's 1200000 vs 1200000. Still Sathanas ouclasses Colossus because it's still got fighterbay (probably something around 80 fighters) and better AF weaponary.
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
This is worse than any political or religious arguement I've been in.  :doubt:

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
What the??? From where do you get these figures it's beyond me! The Collie can do all that damage when overloading most of its beam cannons ! Shivan beam cannons i believe it was calculated somewhere can do about 10 times the damage per designated time period i believe it was about one or 2 minutes because they have this ridiculously shor refire rate and more then double the sustained fire time per shot i believe it is something like 3 seconds for GTVA beams compared to something like 10 seconds for the shivan beams.


Also i never said the Deimos should have 4 beam cannons on it but rather GET RID of 2 of them and replace the other 2 with BG !

Also since the Orion as we can see can manage to fire all of its beams with absolutely no problem what so ever is clear enough to me that it does not have such problems when it comes to reactor overloads. And assuming that it does with absolutely not a sigle proof of it beeing in danger of dooing so is absolute fantasy. Also the whole ter slashers dooing all that damage is absolute bulls*** ! Since when does a Deimos able to fire ALL of its 4 beam cannons at a single target?? NEVER. 90% of the time it can bring to bear just 2 of them.

Also i imagine that when they refited the Orion with beam cannons they overhauled its powergrid as well to some degree.

And again when designing in part a new generation of warship based on its previous generation you kinda want to replace its powergrid to a more powerfull one tha same goes for its engines .

Also how the hell did you come up with the conclusion that the Sath has ust about 80 fighters in its huge belly?? The ravana had about the same fighter capacity of a Hecate and they are about the same size yet it has 3 or 4 LRed's if i'm not mistaken.

Hell you made me want to chech the Fs wiki so that i can prove just how wrong you are.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline DarkShadow-

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
You guys know that you're fighting about something called science-FICTION, don't you? This almost looks like a "my fantasy is better than yours"-battle.  ::)
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Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
ShivanSPS - hmmm...let's see...:
- Fenris as old piece of junk with very weak reactor surely can't take Trebuchets (and remember, Trebs were prototypes available to elite squadrons only, I doubt any capship could have it in that short time, MAYBE 10 years after IIGW), not to mention other weapons, your Fenris would experience reactor failures if all its turrets would come into party.
- Leviathan much better but still a) Trebuchet, b) UltraAAA, it'd also have reactor failures if that beam would come online
- Faustus...well that thing now has got HUGE AF firepower, way too much for a civilian vessel :p
- Orion - that warship is already very powerful, it was miracle (or desingers' genius) that this old design has got both large fighterbay and the largest amount of AC firepower in regular fleet, adding additional BGreen and LRFlaks will cause VERY serious reactor failures
- Deimos - WAY too much AF firepower, I don't know where you plan to put all these Standard Flaks :p
- Aeolus - that thing is already very overpowered and reactor barely staying in one piece, like Orion massive reactor failure
- Aten - no comments, that ship would blow up if it'd fire SVas, not to mention VSlash :p
- Mentu - original set, weaker armor or reactor failure, the choice is yours ;)
- Typhon - Trebuchet
- Hatshepsut - Tornado+Trebuchet+way too much AF firepower, reactor failure sure.

Some other ships are also little too overpowered, but less than those above. BTW I'm preparing my own version of upgraded capships, should be released today evening. ;)

hehe, well i did this in less than an hour -.-, is no susposed to be "balanced" xD

About the Aten... what is the less powerfull anti cap beam in the Vasudan? i was thinking in put it a terslash... but hell is a Vasudan ship :P

The Mentu has about the Same weapons load, but addicional 2 SVAS.... i think is needed... for 2 reasons...

1) They dont have a front turret

2) The GTVA dont have much ships capable of shooting beams at sides...

EDIT: You didt say anything about the Arcadia :P

and about the missiles for the Leviathan and Fenris... i think that Fusion mortal was ok for both...

OK i have edited it to readuce a little the firepower of ships.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 09:59:11 am by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline Desert Tyrant

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Ya know, I'm rather doubtful than the Orion has ZOMG!!!!! REketor OVERLOADS!!!!111eleventy :mad: :mad2: :mad2: :mad:
If the Orions reactor was so ****ty, than just why the **** does it have six beams? Hmm?
Also, I dont think that flak takes as much energy as even a aaaf beam.  Further more, flaks on an Orion would be a welcome addition, as an Orion will last much longer.
Also, the Typhon simply wasent built for Beams, and thus, why the Hatsephsut has more beams, yet on the flipside, the Hecate is newer, but dosent have as many beams.

(Yeah, I'm a bit pissed, school sucked ass today, sorry for sounding like a grade a prick 

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Also to invalidate a previous arguement about the Sobek and the Deimos beeing built at the same time! That is a mistake ! The Sobek was developed soon after the end of the first great war or rather as soon as beam cannons beacame available in they current form. The sobek was built to take advantage of them  at lead 10 years before the Deimos was built or rather a lot sooner then the Deimos was even on the drawing boards. The Deimos class corvettes as first built a few years before the start of the second great war! They did manage however to build quite a few !

But somehow i get the distinct impresion that the fisheaters actualy built a lot more then the terrans ! I believe that they must of actualy had something like 2 sobeks per deimos built because the Sobek was in production a lot sooner and was the only cap ship of its class available for a period of time to the GTVA so i believe they wanted to capitalize on this.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Mars

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
This is worse than any political or religious arguement I've been in.  :doubt:

Only because people are now making it personal.

Folks, there's no need to insult each other, don't you know, a simple "you're wrong" would suffice.

 

Offline Qwer

  • 28
  • If it bleeds, I can mod it
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Ekhem people, we're not auguring, insulting each other and so on, we're just having typical conversation where two people have diffrent point of view and want to persuade the other one. ;) Also this discussion isn't pointless, FreeSpace is science fiction, but it's got rules and I don't agree with some ideas of others because I think they're breaking those rules.

AlphaOne - about first paragraph well I don't understand you. :p

Second - well if you'd do that, you'd have to make serious changes in Deimos design, including lowing AF weaponry. It's possible, but breaks whole Deimos concept because it'd become IDENTICAL to Sobek. If you'd do that, having two corvettes would be pointless.

Third - have I ever said Orion has got reactor overloads when it fires all its beam canons in standard config? I said it's CLOSE to it, not IS. I just wanted to point that any increase of reactor's power would probably cause power crash and it'd be impossible to install another BGreen on it like ShivanSPS did. Deimos can't bring all four cannons on one target, but what if it engages two of them? I count capship maximum power in situations where in brings all turrets into play, not single target. You can't limit your accounts to just part of them because you can't see real use of reactors' power.

Fighterbay - where did you get that info about 150 fighters inside Ravana? o_0 Or much more than 80 fighters inside Sath? My count on Sath's capability was based on what we've seen in main campaign. Let's assume there were 200 Shivan destroyers and 100 Juggernauths. In my calculations about fighter capability it'd be 20000 Shivan fighters flooding Capella, If GTVA had 20 destroyers there it'd give 2000 GTVA fighters. And in main campaign we've seen Shivans having around 10 times more fighters. I think large number of Shivan fighters wasn't because of large fighter capability of destroyers, but large number of destroyers themselves. That'd fit Shivan strategy perfectly (small crafts only as support and whack enemy with large number of heavy tanks).

Sobek vs Deimos - in main campaign there was similar number of Deimoses and Sobeks. That means Sobek mustn't have been built too soon after IGW (because there were no beams then and Sobek couldn't have do its job, having it released after beams' invention is much more logical and beams were invented around 20 years after IGW). That means age difference beetwen Sobek and Deimos is at most 6 years. That short amount of time doesn't mean anything to capship construction. Visible difference beetwen them would be shown if it'd be something around 12 years.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 03:38:36 am by Qwer »
If in your opinion there's no difference beetwen "Master Game" and "Game Master", I can only feel for you.

 
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
If there had been large numbers of Shivan destroyers, we'd have been dead before the Sathanas arrived.

 

Offline Qwer

  • 28
  • If it bleeds, I can mod it
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Chrono - not really, we had touch with only few of them before Sathanas armada invaded. That's why it's gone so easily until we were caught into trap.
If in your opinion there's no difference beetwen "Master Game" and "Game Master", I can only feel for you.