[Hollewanderer]

Well, kind people of The Babylon Project, as I am well aware, TBP is free. It is, most definitely, not sold anywhere for 13.80 USD. In fact, I recall a distinct stink raised over certain eBay auctions which did exactly that - sold TBP for money. I remember TBP staff being distinctly worried about TBP getting in troubles because of that.

Well, the issue's back again, though in a different form. To be more precise, my father stands accused of computer piracy... of The Babylon Project. [and other freeware programs, but that's not the subject of this thread] As I understand, TBP can not possibly be pirated, since it is free to download and I got it from the main site. Polish police remained rather impervious to logic in this situation. [in fact, they only recently dropped I've Found Her from the list of "pirated" programs, and that took a grand battle to accomplish] The case is already in the court, though copyright owners of either B5 or Freespace source code have not been contacted at this point. TBP has been priced by the "expert" to be worth about 13.80 USD, if I did my conversions right. Of course, the judge has yet to hear our arguments as to why this is quite silly, but that's how things are at the moment.

Therefore, I, being rather fed up, bring this to you to let you express your views on the subject. I'm mostly interested in comments from TBP staff [since I already assembled a nice compilation of legal information from the main TBP site and FS SC license] to further prove my point, preferably in as official manner as possible. Well, that, and I just want you to know about it already if this goes further, so that you may prepare - I remember you being quite worried over the eBay issue, and that didn't even skim an actual legal system. So, fire away - every little bit helps to stop this silliness.

[Vengence]

O-M-F-G. This is so silly and utterly stupid! Though I am rather impressed that they decided to give TBP a 'price tag' like that, it is still.... oh gawd I can't even think of any words to describe this! The eBay thing was probably just some guy wanting easy money but THIS!? Your father... accused of pirating FREE and legal software!? I mean... this is so... so... ugh this is ridiculous. So ridiculous that it may just make news about how silly the police is!

Ok, rant off. You now understand my suprise and you have my support even though I'm no staff member. I just had to say something about this.

[Slasher]

That does sound messed up.  I'm curious, do the piracy laws in question apply to game mods as well, or do they frown upon downloading TBP because it's a standalone total conversion? 

[Herra Tohtori]

What the hell?

Who is supposed to be the claimant in this case? State of Poland? As far as I know, copyright stuff usually belongs under civil law jurisdiction, not criminal law... which I understand so that someone must sue someone else before there's a case. I don't know how it is in Poland, though.

It would certainly suck monkey balls if he was convicted to some crap like pay the "economical advantage" gained by crime to the state...

What kind of other programs is he accused of "pirating"? VLC? 7zip? Perhaps even the horror of horrors... Linux-distribution?


It must be pretty deep misconception that reaches to rather high levels if it's gotten into court. I hope it will be all right...

[jr2]

Perhaps even the horror of horrors... Linux-distribution?

[Flipside]

I suggest contacting the court with a solicitors letter. Basically, the FS2 Source code is made available on the condition that it is used for non-profit purposes. By attempting to place a saleable price on it and collect on that price, they are in violation of the EULA and risk prosecution from the owners of the IP.

[Herra Tohtori]

Couldn't the TBP people send the court a C&D letter to prevent them from assigning money value to their work?

[Vengence]

I suggest contacting the court with a solicitors letter. Basically, the FS2 Source code is made available on the condition that it is used for non-profit purposes. By attempting to place a saleable price on it and collect on that price, they are in violation of the EULA and risk prosecution from the owners of the IP.

Indeed, that would get them real good I think.

[Bobboau]

unfortunately, haveing not made any money the TBP staff cannot afford to do that.

if you want I'll be willing to testify on your behalf if you pay for a plane ticket, room, and board

[madaboutgames]

Utterly obsured!

So has your father been compiling a disc and distributing it?  If so this is fine as long as he does not charge more than the price of the disc.  TBP would benefit by this in many more people would have the opportunity to play it.  But as we all know the source code is now freeware for non-profit puposes, so if the prosecution is in doupt why doesnt he have a look on this thread and see what us  TBP staff are replying in respect to this answer.

[Redrake]

It sounds dubious to say the least. As a lawyer, I know that in case of copyrights the legal actions are not started by the state unless there are proof that those copyrights were broken. Performing an expertise is even worse, since they are in fact evaluating the work of someone else without their express consent. My advice would be to print the readme and the main download page of the mod to be used in court.

[neoterran]

It sounds dubious to say the least. As a lawyer, I know that in case of copyrights the legal actions are not started by the state unless there are proof that those copyrights were broken. Performing an expertise is even worse, since they are in fact evaluating the work of someone else without their express consent. My advice would be to print the readme and the main download page of the mod to be used in court.

QFT

[Col. Fishguts]

That's both hilarious and tragic. Let us know if we can do anything to clear up the situation.

[PSI-KILLER]

I never heard of such poppycock.  Someone must be instigating the suit.  It must be named on the legal papers who is starting the legal process.  Who is the plantiff?

[G0atmaster]

Perhaps even the horror of horrors... Linux-distribution?

   

[Slasher]

I never heard of such poppycock.  Someone must be instigating the suit.  It must be named on the legal papers who is starting the legal process.  Who is the plantiff?

I wonder if it'll be a Polish version of Jack Thompson.  Ugh.

[Vengence]

Dummy Jack is against violent games and such, this Polish Jack would have to be a radical anti-modder who agrees modders are bad because of that coffee thing that some modders unlocked and is against public made games because the suck away competition and are superior to some other company made games which in turn deprive the companies and gov't money  . I hope this sounds the way I wanted it to be lol, having a second Thompson would be a nightmare.

[IPAndrews]

No involvement from the TBP team is really required in this matter. There is enough evidence on the web for your father's solicitors to defend him with respect to TBP. That part of the case will naturally collapse as it should. The rest of the case will similarly be judged on it's own merit - or lack of.

[aldo_14]

Well, kind people of The Babylon Project, as I am well aware, TBP is free. It is, most definitely, not sold anywhere for 13.80 USD. In fact, I recall a distinct stink raised over certain eBay auctions which did exactly that - sold TBP for money. I remember TBP staff being distinctly worried about TBP getting in troubles because of that.

Well, the issue's back again, though in a different form. To be more precise, my father stands accused of computer piracy... of The Babylon Project. [and other freeware programs, but that's not the subject of this thread] As I understand, TBP can not possibly be pirated, since it is free to download and I got it from the main site. Polish police remained rather impervious to logic in this situation. [in fact, they only recently dropped I've Found Her from the list of "pirated" programs, and that took a grand battle to accomplish] The case is already in the court, though copyright owners of either B5 or Freespace source code have not been contacted at this point. TBP has been priced by the "expert" to be worth about 13.80 USD, if I did my conversions right. Of course, the judge has yet to hear our arguments as to why this is quite silly, but that's how things are at the moment.

Therefore, I, being rather fed up, bring this to you to let you express your views on the subject. I'm mostly interested in comments from TBP staff [since I already assembled a nice compilation of legal information from the main TBP site and FS SC license] to further prove my point, preferably in as official manner as possible. Well, that, and I just want you to know about it already if this goes further, so that you may prepare - I remember you being quite worried over the eBay issue, and that didn't even skim an actual legal system. So, fire away - every little bit helps to stop this silliness.

This is one of the most ludicrous situations I've ever heard.

 It's a terrible shame your dad happened to cross the path of a police-person with less than two brain cells to rub together.

(NB: any other information you can give on which games are covered?)

[Redrake]

It's a terrible shame your dad happened to cross the path of a police-person with less than two brain cells to rub together.

It's actually gold pieces to rub together, but brain cells works too.