[Mr. Vega]

If you have suggestions, post. I personally think politics and religion threads have no place here, and see them as the root of our evils...

You forget that the original "OT-Religion" was probably the single greatest thread we ever had.

I absolutely agree there's a problem, I just don't think this is much of a solution.

[achtung]

We're experimenting with a new layout for HLP, as we try to focus more on our core "business" -- that is, modding, art, and gaming, specifically for FreeSpace -- and less on the political discussions and flame wars that have been so common in Hard Light.  Please pardon our dust.

Wouldn't that warrant Freespace specific gaming discussion be above the stuff currently in "Games and Gaming"?

This is a Freespace forum after all.

EDIT:  Meh, I'm done now, I'm starting to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Nuclear1]

Politics have no place here, though. They accomplish absolutely nothing. As Flipside has said time and again: No one has ever had their opinion changed in any of these debates. All they do is cause fights and get people monkeyed. If I had my way there'd be none of that here, honestly.

While nobody's mind might get changed, I love having political discussions just to hear other people's opinions on the world situation or on particular topics.  You don't always have to argue to win; you argue to learn. 

Agreed though; the people with hot heads really ought to just chill out when it comes to politics.  It's not worth getting monkeyed.

[Taristin]

Civil arguments are fine. It's not only ok, but good to compare and contrast different views and parties and religions... but that's not what happens, as we all know. Someone always gets 'butthurt.'

[Mr. Vega]

The political threads were like TaS: they were great at first.

[achtung]

Politics have no place here, though. They accomplish absolutely nothing. As Flipside has said time and again: No one has ever had their opinion changed in any of these debates. All they do is cause fights and get people monkeyed. If I had my way there'd be none of that here, honestly.

While nobody's mind might get changed, I love having political dis cussions just to hear other people's opinions on the world situation or on particular topics.  You don't always have to argue to win; you argue to learn. 

Agreed though; the people with hot heads really ought to just chill out when it comes to politics.  It's not worth getting monkeyed.

See?  That's the point.

You can learn things from those discussions.  I do agree there are some hot heads that need to hush up too.  It's just, what's so bad about discussing those things no one wants to talk about?  In all honesty, this place has probably taught me more about politics and the opinions of other places in the world than any school could have.

I understand that you don't want this to be the focus of the forum though, and that's fine.  It's the admins' choice.

[Mr. Vega]

Well, they have been sucky ever since we stopped egging on Liberator, and that's not the admins' fault.

edit- Well, more like ever since Kazan went crazy bat**** loco.

[achtung]

edit- Well, more like when Kazan went crazy bat**** loco.

sshhh, we don't talk about that

[Nuclear1]

Civil arguments are fine. It's not only ok, but good to compare and contrast different views and parties and religions... but that's not what happens, as we all know. Someone always gets 'butthurt.'

I think that's mostly because people have become so familiar as to where everybody stands on the issues and will often get tired of hearing the same "rhetoric" over and over again that they'll just tell each other to shutup rather than getting into a discussion.  We're different from most forums in that we have people who can cite sources or give credible information to back up their beliefs, rather than just "lol ur gay u like gay people dont u go die fag" like other forums. 

I miss the days when I still didn't have people like aldo, karajorma, Kosh, or Kazan totally figured out; it was always interesting to try to analyze fellow forumites and see where they stand on issues, and then try to have a meaningful debate.  I love it when people can play off each other with ideas and--maybe--walk away with a viewpoint they never considered before, or something totally new. 

Sadly, it usually results in someone pulling out either a typical response per their views, or slamming someone else for their own views.  That sucks.

[Mr. Vega]

Right now, the politics here sound like an arguement in a retirement home. At least with Libby we had some real rage going.

[Falcon]

I liked the old layout better.

[Mr. Vega]

Eh, just move HL above Hosted and I'll be satisfied.

edit -This may just be my highest posting day ever. And I'm over 900 finally. Yay!

[Inquisitor]

I'm still here for the community aspect and I'll bet money quite a few others are too.

And frankly, that "community aspect" has driven a fair few away.

Its been pure bull****, and a waste of time for months. HLP admins need to decide what they want in a forum, one way or the other. Both is not an option. You want crap, I want crap free. Those are incompatible desires.

I appaluad this change, even if it was me who something to do with badgering them into it.

[Mr. Vega]

Toss the community aspect aside and what you have is a dead forum. And a dead project.

[Inquisitor]

I think things like the SCP are vibrant, living projects with extremely talented people working on them.

Alive and well BECAUSE of the community. Which is not equivalent to what "Hard Light" had become.

[Mr. Vega]

Well duh. But that doesn't mean anything if you don't have people to download what you release.

Well then, let's actually try to save this place and fix up HL.

[Inquisitor]

Sounds like you are confuising the "community" with threads about masterbating to the demise of the democrats, how the UK is now the new Nazi germany, or whatever the flavor of the day political argument ticked the fancy of the denizens.

Two entirely different things, from where I sit.

Consider that first time users visit to the forum. What's the impression you want to set?

Is this a place where cool things happen? SCP, mods, upgrade projects, extremely cool TC's, great artists making quality game art?

Or is this just another collection of polarized random assholes with opinions du jour and talking points from the liberal/conservative agenda?

What is that community that everyone seems to "love" so much?


-edit-
misc typos suck

-edit2-
Think about it before you just hit reply for the sake of arguing.

[Mr. Vega]

Of course it's degenerated over the past few years, but that doesn't change the fact that Hard Light is the community now. That wasn't always the case, but since the dearth of really major campaign project releases, FS just hasn't be able to hold it up alone (no matter how productive and brilliant the SCP gets, it needs something new to be used for). We don't need to be pushing HL into the background, we need to stop being asses.

[Mr. Vega]

Or is this just another collection of polarized random assholes with opinions du jour and talking points from the liberal/conservative agenda?

What is that community that everyone seems to "love" so much?

Okay I know I'm going to be reaching way back in the past, but I give you two examples.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,7527.0.html

The infamous OT- Religion thread. IMO the best HLP discussion ever. Went from a opinion thread about religion in general to an endless discussion about everything from nationalism to the nature of life. Just about everyone who posted in that thread got offended at least twice. Only it wasn't repetitive and tired like all religion topics nowadays. It was frelling brilliant (well, for the first ~30 pages). It's still entertaining to read, after 5 years.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,8760.175.html

"The Big Bad HLP Sex and Dating Thread" Got turned into a war between everyone else and CP who was try to argue that sex won't be necessary in the future.

It was stuff like that that made me love this place. That and watching Stryke attack everybody.

[Rictor]

I swear, this is more like an argument for the sake of arguing. Like as if we were at a retirement home, and they moved Bingo from Monday to Tuesday night...

That's exactly what it is. And we all love it. God help you if you change Matlock from 3pm to 5pm - then you're going to see a real revolution. Jenkins in Room 307 used to be in the Marines don'tcha know - he'll kick yerr scrawny ass jes' like he did to Charlies back in Korea!

Like Flipside said, this forum is big enough to accomodate all topics. I personally don't mind the new layout, and I don't think the majority of people have any problem with it. Hard Light has gone through so many changes over the years, it's just part of the process now.

...though I'm still waiting for you to admit to posting in all the political threads under and alt username to get your political fix and let your murderous rage out. Flame on baby, flame on!