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Offline Mobius

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Good idea, but we can include everything in one stage.

"Disertion is ground for a court martial, pilot. Because of your negligence, the Shivans destroyed the Warlock severely reducing our chances of victory in this threatre of operations. You're hereby stripped of your wings and all privileges bestowed upon you as an officer of the GTVA. <stuff about preliminary pendings> A transport will bring you to the nearest Penal Colony. Dismissed."
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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So, one reason why the final mission is so easy is that Alpha 1 has the protect-ship flag set on it.....  :lol:
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Offline MP-Ryan

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So, one reason why the final mission is so easy is that Alpha 1 has the protect-ship flag set on it.....  :lol:

You're kidding.

That might explain why nothing tries to seriously kill you.

Actually, check the mission with the Britannia and E1M4 again for that... I seem to recall sitting at 1% hull integrity through one or both of them.

Has anyone looked for the AWOLs in the other missions yet?  If I get my paper done today, I can probably do some work on them tomorrow.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Here is a first draft of the final mission with the obvious bugs and issues cleaned out.  It still feels very easy.  I'll look at those other missions and see.  I have not touched any AWOL debriefings yet.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Here is a first draft of the final mission with the obvious bugs and issues cleaned out.  It still feels very easy.  I'll look at those other missions and see.  I have not touched any AWOL debriefings yet.

I can't play that right now because I'm not on a computer with FS installed, but here is a quick jot down of ideas on how to re-vamp the final mission and preserve the premise of it's storyline,while making it more difficult:

Mission narrative:
-Make only Alpha wing's loadout customizeable.  Place Beta in Erinyes fighters, and Gamma in Perseus interceptors.  Give them decent loadouts.
-Russik's Argo, Comm Node, and Ravana all located in close proximity at beginning of mission.  Ravana at full hull integrity. Warlock not yet present in area.
-One wing of Maras guarding the Argo; one wing guarding the Ravana.
-Alpha and Beta wings jump in as advance recon and strike teams.  Report position of Ravana and arranged forces to Warlock (this is a little more realistic, I think, than the strike teams arriving with the Warlock).  Alpha ordered to destroy primary beam cannons, Beta to engage fighters.
-Warlock jumps in within beam range BEHIND the Ravana, opens fire with its primary beam turrets.  Ravana fires with aft beam turrets at the Warlock.  Ravana begins turning to attack the Warlock.
-The Ravana should be engaging Alpha wing with anti-fighter beams, flak, missile turrets, and laser turrets at all times during this mission to make it difficult.  The only weapons on the Ravana that should ever stop firing are all the beam cannons (read below).  We could also have the wing of Maras reappear from the fighterbay every minute or so after the previous one is destroyed.
-Alpha must destroy the primary beam cannons on the Ravana before it completes its turn and can engage the Warlock.  We could script something so that the aft turrets of the Ravana damage the Warlock, but if the primary turrets fire on it, the Warlock gets destroyed.  In the FS2 retail campaign, a Ravana is a huge threat to any destroyer. In the original of this mission, it's a large red lump to be rolled over.  These types of events would change that.
-When the primary beam turrets are destroyed, script a message and event to destroy all the beam cannons on the Ravana (excuse it as an overload or something).  At this point, the Ravana should begin launching bombers (from its fighterbay, not through subspace) at the Warlock and Alpha/Beta ordered to defend the Warlock.  Fighter launches by the Ravana should stop at this point; make it so Alpha/Beta/Gamma just have to deal with several bomber wings trying to destroy the Warlock.
-The Warlock should not launch bombers at the Ravana.
-When the Ravana is destroyed, bomber waves should stop.  At this point, the maximum hull integrity of the Warlock should be about 50%, and the minimum around 25%
-Russik taunts included here.
-Russik should call in two Molochs which should warp in several kilometers out, accompanied by a wing of Maras each.  The Warlock should then deploy two bomber wings (1 Boanenerges, 1 Artemis), epsilon wing (Perseus interceptors), and send them along with any surviving fighters from Beta and Gamma wings after the three capital ships.  Allow the Warlock to engage the Molochs when within range.  With the combined power of the Warlock, bombers, and fighters it should be scripted and timed so that it is possible for the Warlock to survive the corvettes if it has 40% or more hull integrity after the Ravana and the Shivan bombers.
-Alpha wing should be sent after the comm node, not the corvettes.  If Alpha hasn't destroyed then node by the time the Molochs are within range of the Warlock, two Rakshasa's and two wings of Seraphim jump in behind the Warlock and, along with the Molochs, destroy it.  If Alpha does destroy the comm node in time, then the Rakshasa's never arrive, and any Shivan forces left continue against the Warlock and the bombers until they are destroyed, but no reinforcements arrive.  This will require careful timing of the events, but it gives an importance to destroying that comm node.
-In other words, if the player helped the Warlock hold off the bombers and destroyed the beam cannons, and then later destroys the comm node, the mission should be a success.  If the player fails to do these things in a timely manner, the Molochs should destroy the Warlock, or (if the comm node isn't destroyed in time), the Rakshasa's and bombers should ensure its destruction and the mission should be a failure.
-If the Warlock survives and the Molochs and node are destroyed, then the end of the mission should carry out as before - Russik surrenders, and then self-destructs.  Otherwise, the mission should be a failure and Russik should jump out after the Warlock dies.

What do you guys think?  It'll take some serious work, and serious balancing, but I think it preserves the intent of the original mission and ups the difficulty.  Give me some feedback.
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Offline Mobius

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The only possible way to make the last mission harder is reducing the Warlock's chances of survival...


I like your concept mission, Ryan. Let's wait for Nelson's opinion.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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It does seem to be stretching the idea of being a restoration team to completely redo the thing in that way.

I do think that the mission is indeed to easy even after removing the protect-ship flag from the player.  This is partly due to the nature of the Ravana design itself  -- a couple of bursts from a maxim can completely emasculate the ship.  Notice how in the previous mission you had Trebuchets available, but none in this one.  Why?  Because then you could hit button two on the joystick twice and win the mission... :)

The first issue is probably that the Ravana does not have enough fighter escort.  Another pilot makes a comment about "there are too many of them", yet there are 12 terran fighters to 14 shivan.  Given that many of the shivan fighters are crappy Ashemas, this is a bit much.  I like the idea of the destroyer launcher more and more fighters, this gives more urgency to destroying the vessel, as once you knock out the two beam cannons its just another trash hauler waiting to blow up.

I also like the idea of it launching bomber wings, beyond just the one wing of Taurvis.  This makes more sense than the bombers that warp in repeatedly next to Warlock.  It would again create more urgency than exists now in the mission.

The part with the Rakshasas is also a little odd, as Warlock launches _eight_ bombers to destroy them.  Where were these when the Ravana was attacking?  4 Artemis + 4 Boanerges make short work of the cruisers without any need for player intervention.

Something that always puzzled me in Warzone is what happened to the GTCV Odin.  It is the ship most closely identified with Russik, yet it vanishes from the campaign without comment.  Perhaps adding it to the cruiser group would close this plot hole plus provide challenge?
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Offline Mobius

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Uhm...

It does seem to be stretching the idea of being a restoration team to completely redo the thing in that way.

Yeah, but the idea is damn good.

I do think that the mission is indeed to easy even after removing the protect-ship flag from the player.  This is partly due to the nature of the Ravana design itself  -- a couple of bursts from a maxim can completely emasculate the ship.  Notice how in the previous mission you had Trebuchets available, but none in this one.  Why?  Because then you could hit button two on the joystick twice and win the mission... :)

Should we use the Kismat from Inferno? :lol:

The first issue is probably that the Ravana does not have enough fighter escort.  Another pilot makes a comment about "there are too many of them", yet there are 12 terran fighters to 14 shivan.  Given that many of the shivan fighters are crappy Ashemas, this is a bit much.  I like the idea of the destroyer launcher more and more fighters, this gives more urgency to destroying the vessel, as once you knock out the two beam cannons its just another trash hauler waiting to blow up.

There are some Dragons as well.... but yeah you're right...

I also like the idea of it launching bomber wings, beyond just the one wing of Taurvis.  This makes more sense than the bombers that warp in repeatedly next to Warlock.  It would again create more urgency than exists now in the mission.

So...le'ts increase the number of waves. Bombers can jump in near the Warlock - remember that Russik was communicating with the Shivans so every single Shivan unit in that sector was available as reinforcement. The idea of bombers jumping in makes sense.

The part with the Rakshasas is also a little odd, as Warlock launches _eight_ bombers to destroy them.  Where were these when the Ravana was attacking?  4 Artemis + 4 Boanerges make short work of the cruisers without any need for player intervention.

That's what the designers wanted. At the end, Allied forces have a advantage and except for the Ravana, avery obstacle can be dispatched quickly. In this case we can only delay the launch of the bombers, giving the cruisers the time they need to do part of their job.

Something that always puzzled me in Warzone is what happened to the GTCV Odin.  It is the ship most closely identified with Russik, yet it vanishes from the campaign without comment.  Perhaps adding it to the cruiser group would close this plot hole plus provide challenge?
   

Err...I'd rather leave the plothole. The corvette has been either captured or destroyed at the end of Russik's rebellion...
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Offline MP-Ryan

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I think this campaign has already pushed us a little beyond Restoration anyway.  Like I said before, the final mission simply doesn't do the rest of the campaign justice.

Here's another set of suggestions then:

1.  The current bit of Warlock-on-Ravana makes very little sense.  You're telling me the destroyer wouldn't launch any fighters in advance before it jumped in?  That's why I suggested we change the beginning of the mission with the Ravana.  Jump in Alpha and Beta wings only at the beginning, and send them after the Ravana's main beam cannons.  Have them warp in 2 or so clicks out, and send a message telling the Warlock where to jump in.  Jump the Warlock in behind along with Gamma wing in Perseus interceptors, but within beam range to begin with, and force the Ravana to attack with its aft beams BEFORE it turns.  The idea is that if you don't take out the primary beam turrets before it turns around, they fire and we script in the Warlock's destruction (maybe replace the main beams with a couple BFRed's, if they aren't already).  Then, if Alpha renders the Ravana toothless, it's beams are disabled and it begins bomber launches (and abort fighters) in a last-ditch attempt to take out the Warlock.  The Warlock, meanwhile, keeps firing its beams eventually destroying the Ravana if the player can keep the bombers off it.  This is what was intended by my quote (below)... so what do you think of this suggestion in particular?

Quote
-Make only Alpha wing's loadout customizeable.  Place Beta in Erinyes fighters, and Gamma in Perseus interceptors.  Give them decent loadouts.
-Russik's Argo, Comm Node, and Ravana all located in close proximity at beginning of mission.  Ravana at full hull integrity. Warlock not yet present in area.
-One wing of Maras guarding the Argo; one wing guarding the Ravana.
-Alpha and Beta wings jump in as advance recon and strike teams.  Report position of Ravana and arranged forces to Warlock (this is a little more realistic, I think, than the strike teams arriving with the Warlock).  Alpha ordered to destroy primary beam cannons, Beta to engage fighters.
-Warlock jumps in within beam range BEHIND the Ravana, opens fire with its primary beam turrets.  Ravana fires with aft beam turrets at the Warlock.  Ravana begins turning to attack the Warlock.
-The Ravana should be engaging Alpha wing with anti-fighter beams, flak, missile turrets, and laser turrets at all times during this mission to make it difficult.  The only weapons on the Ravana that should ever stop firing are all the beam cannons (read below).  We could also have the wing of Maras reappear from the fighterbay every minute or so after the previous one is destroyed.
-Alpha must destroy the primary beam cannons on the Ravana before it completes its turn and can engage the Warlock.  We could script something so that the aft turrets of the Ravana damage the Warlock, but if the primary turrets fire on it, the Warlock gets destroyed.  In the FS2 retail campaign, a Ravana is a huge threat to any destroyer. In the original of this mission, it's a large red lump to be rolled over.  These types of events would change that.
-When the primary beam turrets are destroyed, script a message and event to destroy all the beam cannons on the Ravana (excuse it as an overload or something).  At this point, the Ravana should begin launching bombers (from its fighterbay, not through subspace) at the Warlock and Alpha/Beta ordered to defend the Warlock.  Fighter launches by the Ravana should stop at this point; make it so Alpha/Beta/Gamma just have to deal with several bomber wings trying to destroy the Warlock.
-The Warlock should not launch bombers at the Ravana.
-When the Ravana is destroyed, bomber waves should stop.  At this point, the maximum hull integrity of the Warlock should be about 50%, and the minimum around 25%

2.  The last half, encompassing the Odin suggestion:
-Begin with Russik's taunts, calling in friends.
-Jump the two Rakshasa's in within beam range of the Warlock, then launch the Warlock's bombers (a wing of Boanerges and one of Artemis's will do).  Let the Rakshasa's fire a bit on the Warlock.  This should make this seem a little more urgent.
-Again, send Alpha after the comm node again.  Put this on a timer, saying you have however long (we'll have to playtest to figure it out) to destroy the node before Russik calls in additional Shivan reinforcements.  Again, if Alpha fails, more Shivans show up and destroy the Warlock, mission fail.
-If Alpha succeeds, once the comm node and both cruisers are destroyed, warp in the Odin between Russik's Argo and the Warlock, and plot the Argo on a timed escape from the area.  Send messages from the Warlock telling Alpha to disable the Argo's engines while it deals with the Odin.  The Warlock and surviving bombers then engage the Odin but do not destroy it.
-When the engines are disabled, the Odin and the Argo surrender, and the Argo self-destructs.

What do you think?  Another alternative is to replace the Argo in the previous mission and this mission with the Odin, and instead of disabling the Argo at the end of this one, disarm and disable the Odin.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Also, at no point should Shivan fighters or bombers jump in while the Ravana is still alive - they should be coming from that destroyer's fighterbay.  After the destroyer is kaput, the only Shivan ships jumping in should be a few fighters and the cruisers.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Regarding adding AWOL debriefings... is there any reason we can't do an is-event-false check on the RTB orders?  Every Warzone mission has a RTB order issued when completed successfully (or unsuccessfully).  Therefore, if you jump out before you get an RTB, you're AWOL.

I tested it in the first mission and it worked correctly.

So, would this work or am I missing something glaringly simple?

Oh, here's a standardized AWOL debriefing:
Quote
You have been declared AWOL, pilot!  Jumping out before you are ordered to do so is grounds for immediate imprisonment.

Recommendation text:  Do not depart until ordered to do so.

Here's an updated copy of E2M1 with the correct AWOL debrief.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Yes, this seems a logical solution. This will also double check that every mission has proper RTB directives.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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If we do it this way, it's a fairly quick addition too.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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Yeah, the voice acting is easy too, since its just one line.
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Offline Mobius

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There are replies here? I didn't notice them...damn...

Can we do basic things like:
1) Set reasonable loadouts;
2) Change the IA level of someone;
3) More bomber wing waves attacking the Warlock;
4) Delay the launch of bombers attacking the Rakshasas;

Yeah, the voice acting is easy too, since its just one line.

I was about to suggest the use of a longer debrief...I forgot the fact that the campaign will be voice acted...
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Offline diceman111

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Ok well I have never played Warzone so I was wondering if you guys are close to completing it or if there is an SCP version of it or if I should simply download the old one...
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Offline Mobius

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I suggest you to play the old one, since we still have to work on the final mission and the voice acting will take a while.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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I suggest you to play the old one, since we still have to work on the final mission and the voice acting will take a while.

We could do a pre-release of missions only, no voiceacting first :)
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Offline diceman111

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I suggest you to play the old one, since we still have to work on the final mission and the voice acting will take a while.

We could do a pre-release of missions only, no voiceacting first :)

That would be great, cause while voice acting is good and it elevates the experiance it isent that important, atleast not to me

And you always have Microsoft Ann

/Dice
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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There are replies here? I didn't notice them...damn...

Can we do basic things like:
1) Set reasonable loadouts;
2) Change the IA level of someone;
3) More bomber wing waves attacking the Warlock;
4) Delay the launch of bombers attacking the Rakshasas;


1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes, though these should be launched from the Ravana
4) For what purpose?
If a man consults whether he is to fight, when he has the power in his own hands, it is certain that his opinion is against fighting.