Poll

Is it believable that the Ts and Vs could develop so similarly despite both starting at single celled organisms?

Yes, Ja, Oui
35 (59.3%)
No, Nein, Non
24 (40.7%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?  (Read 36132 times)

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Offline Mobius

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Had it ever accured to anyone that humanoid shape may be the optimal shape for a cultural and technological race?

It occured. And then was rejected as a bunch of humanocentric bull****.

Give me one good reason why velociraptor or any of the other dromaeosaurs would have to change to an upright posture in order to achieve sentience and I might concede that you  have a point.

Humans had to walk erect to allow us to come down out of the trees. But just because the selection pressures then led to sentience doesn't mean an upright posture should be considered a prerequisite for sentience.

So... other people think considered the Dromeosauri smart enough to be "candidates". I considered me alone.

Well, if you look at Games Workshop's Lizardmen, you wonder...
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Oh damn.

I have stumbled into a thread where everyone is trying to pretend that they know something about biology past the high school curriculum.

Step away... slowly...


 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
I know Biology... or I can simply ask my mother :P

I know, but my English it limited...that's my problem. I'm like the Ancients, who cannot "deliver the hurt"...
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Oh damn.

I have stumbled into a thread where everyone is trying to pretend that they know something about biology past the high school curriculum.

Step away... slowly...

I'm in the fourth year of my geology/biology degree at uni. That count enough for you?
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Is is possible high intelligence is a product of evolution, however I doubt it.

*Sits down and straps himself in*

Okay then. What is it the product of?


Increasign brain size would have neccessitated increasing head size, probably causing a body weight imbalance. You could counter this by increasing rear bulk or tail length, but this would have been less energy efficient than adjusting their posture to be more upright and centre the weight better over their legs. Plus, long tails would have made them vulnerable to ambush by larger predators (the only realistic defence a dromaeosaur would have had against a larger tyrannosaurid type predator would have been to run away after all, leaving their rear exposed). Admittedly, a more upright posture might have been less efficient for speed and raptorial predation, but this could well have been the selection pressure that led to a further increase in brain size, just as humans had to increase their brain size in order to survive the much stronger selection pressure on the plains rather than in the somewhat safer trees.

Admittedly, it's not an air tight theory, but it's certainly (IMO) a viable route towards increased inteligence and upright posture in dromaeosaurs. I reckon that, in earthlike gravity, for terrestrial bipeds heading for sentience, upright posture is probably the way to go, simply because it's much easier to keep your big, heavy, well protected head directly above your centre of gravity that to have to put a big counterweight out behind you.

That's kinda my point. It's a route. But it's not necessarily the only one that they could have taken. They don't HAVE to become upright to survive. They could have. I'm not denying it. But they wouldn't have to.

In fact quite a few palaeontologists who have looked into the subject consider it fairly arrogant to say that dinosaurs would have ended up humanoid. Take a look at this for instance as you might enjoy it :) 
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Is is possible high intelligence is a product of evolution, however I doubt it.

*Sits down and straps himself in*

Okay then. What is it the product of?

GOD..... ;7
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Offline Wobble73

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Is is possible high intelligence is a product of evolution, however I doubt it.

*Sits down and straps himself in*

Okay then. What is it the product of?

GOD..... ;7

You mean eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge don't you?  :drevil:


In that case is all because of Satan that the human race has high intelligence!  :P
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Don-t know if I would call it high intelligence.
Whatever it is, we are apparently the only one to have it, which is wierd. This trait is both a blessing and a curse..

As for the tree of knowledge bit... you do relise its all a metaphor?
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Is is possible high intelligence is a product of evolution, however I doubt it.

*Sits down and straps himself in*

Okay then. What is it the product of?

GOD..... ;7
:lol:

The stereotypical aliens that supposedly visit Earth nowdays and abduct folks and such. You know, little short guys with big heads and big black eyes?
Don't insult the Asgard like that! ;7

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
That's kinda my point. It's a route. But it's not necessarily the only one that they could have taken. They don't HAVE to become upright to survive. They could have. I'm not denying it. But they wouldn't have to.

In fact quite a few palaeontologists who have looked into the subject consider it fairly arrogant to say that dinosaurs would have ended up humanoid. Take a look at this for instance as you might enjoy it :) 

One person says it's unlikely, the other says it's likely. I personally come down on the side of humanoid being a damned good shape for sentience if you're starting from a terrestrial biped because, as I mentioned above, it's preferable to keep your big, heavy head directly over your centre of gravity due to pure physics. Once you get that going on, the basics of humanoidism (upright posture, eliminated or extremely shortened tail (which in dromaeosaurs only existed as a counterweight and rudder anyway) etc.).
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Offline redsniper

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
The stereotypical aliens that supposedly visit Earth nowdays and abduct folks and such. You know, little short guys with big heads and big black eyes?
Don't insult the Asgard like that! ;7
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Sorry, don't get it; not a B5 fan. :)
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
The stereotypical aliens that supposedly visit Earth nowdays and abduct folks and such. You know, little short guys with big heads and big black eyes?
Don't insult the Asgard like that! ;7
*watches point sail over his head*
Sorry, don't get it; not a B5 fan. :)
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Offline redsniper

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Well, there you go. Not much of a SG1 fan either, as I've made very apparent. :p
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Come on, how could you not know these, they are both brilliant shows. Well one was and one is. :doubt:
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Is is possible high intelligence is a product of evolution, however I doubt it.

*Sits down and straps himself in*

Okay then. What is it the product of?

GOD..... ;7

It's a good thing I'm strapped in right now so as to save me from killing myself with a massive facepalm.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Don't let me stop you....


Have you noticed how all the traits in nauture are never singular? Truk like an elephant? Several other species have it also. Marsupials (bag on belly) - there's a lot of those too.. Even the platapus isn't the only mammal that lays eggs...

So think...in 3 million years of evolution, only the human has a very specific trait?
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Don't let me stop you....


Have you noticed how all the traits in nauture are never singular? Truk like an elephant? Several other species have it also. Marsupials (bag on belly) - there's a lot of those too.. Even the platapus isn't the only mammal that lays eggs...

So think...in 3 million years of evolution, only the human has a very specific trait?
Well we still are the only ones that will kill others in cold blood, not under pure instinct for survival purposes like animals do.
And platypuses are still freaks... ;7

 

Offline Charismatic

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Not another evolutionist hijack. Seriously. Save that for the correct thread.

And where is the lonely bastard who normaly quotes me to say i was wrong. You ppl make me sick.

EDIT: And for another counter-hijack, what do you guys speculate Vasudans evolved from? Fish? Crabs? Rocks?
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
What kind of a stupid question is that?

We all know it's fishes.

Here's the proof;


 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Terrans and Vasudans: Too similar?
Not another evolutionist hijack. Seriously. Save that for the correct thread.

And where is the lonely bastard who normaly quotes me to say i was wrong. You ppl make me sick.

EDIT: And for another counter-hijack, what do you guys speculate Vasudans evolved from? Fish? Crabs? Rocks?

There's not been such thing as an evolutionist since the early 20th century. Now go away you insignificant little man.

Hail fishies.
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