Author Topic: Your personal Shivan theory  (Read 27599 times)

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Offline jr2

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Placeholder for future post, I have to find something I want to show you... carry on!  (don't discuss this & derail the thread! I should have it in a day or two, and I will post again when I find it  *starts searching ctrl+alt+del comics*)

Finally!  Searched through the whole thing, must've skipped over it by accident... here ya go...  The companies are even related, and the game sequel number is even the same!  ;)  :lol:

I wish someone would write a book and spill the beans already.

Nah, we can use a little persuasion on them:

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20040308

Even funnier is the result:

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20040416
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 08:14:31 pm by jr2 »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Twisting the fundementally destructive logic back on itself, the Shivans are the defenders by accident; they represent the end extreme of this, destroying everything even remotely related to anyone who opens the door to subspace.

Perhaps due to simple biological imperatives (this species occupies the same niche as us, it's us or them; this isn't a theme I've seen picked up very often in sci-fi, but it's a very logical one) up until the Great War interspecies cooperation was something that simply did not exist in the galaxy, perhaps the universe. Now it does. And that, more than anything else, frightens the Shivans. It is quite literally beyond their ability to comprehend. They didn't have to back down at Capella, but they did. They were scared.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline brandx0

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
And so they captured some humans and vasudans to study, and we found that the shivans were 50 feet tall, but the captives escaped after they kissed. The Shivans were so shocked by this that they were unable to stop them from escaping in their transforming jet robots...

Oh wait, wrong universe.
Former Senior Modeler, Texturer and Content Moderator (retired), Fate of the Galaxy
"I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port"
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
LOL...Macross FTW ;7
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Could you blame them? If i saw Alpha One make out with Miss Vasuda Prime 2332 - Kho'bani Shekmet Nabubu IV i would be to horrified to stop them from escaping either.  :ick:
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline S-99

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Hey i'm interested in what a human/vasudan hybrid looks like. Let them make out :p
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
And so they captured some humans and vasudans to study, and we found that the shivans were 50 feet tall, but the captives escaped after they kissed. The Shivans were so shocked by this that they were unable to stop them from escaping in their transforming jet robots...

Oh wait, wrong universe.

this just reminds me of something...the kiss in macros was just a distraction - they really escaped thanks to Max..

And stopping a armored robot amed with lazers, rockets and a gattling gun, flying at high speeds while piloted by an ace pilot...isn't easy.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Fabian

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
First:

Props to Gestalt! To those who have not read his post, do so. It is really great.

Yes, FS1 was really disturbing.

For all the theories, you almost all miss out on two things:

- It was Bosch, who re-opened the door to Shivan Space.

- And Bosch started to actually communicate with them.
  * While many were slaughtered, Bosch seems to get onto the cruiser unharmed.

Speculation (tiled in several speculations, so you can disagree with some of them):

1) Maybe the ancients opened that door also. (which explains why they were destroyed)

2) Maybe they managed to close it almost in time. (which explains why it was turned off)

3) But the Lucifer was already in, destroyed them, and slept for thousands of years with the remaining fleet - being isolated from the rest of the fleet. (which might explain the shields and other technological differences between Shivan FS1 and Shivan FS2)

4) The Lucifer is awakened by arrival of either GTA or PVN forces and seeks to destroy this new "ancients". (which might explain why they destroy those planets)
  => Lucifer and Shivan fleet are destroyed.

5) Bosch gets to know that the Lucifer is destroyed with some help of "ancients", who already knew the shivans.

6) Bosch thinks he somehow can save the human race by contacting the shivans. Or at least he gets the huge wish to communicate with them and spends his whole life to follow this goal.

* He might had the fear that they would come anyway and would destroy all of them. He might have been trying to prevent this by contacting the shivans.

* He might have told the other Neo-Terra ships that the "paradise" lies in the nebula. (Else I cannot understand why so many ships try to get to a "nebula" and be smashed by mjolnars.)

=> He reactivates the portal / door to shivan space.

7) The door is open, Bosch talks with the shivans. The see a new threat (the race is fighting against them) shivans mobilize a fleet. (why ever)

7.1 perhaps they saw a threat, perhaps not.
7.2 perhaps they were still seeking to destroy the "ancients" home world.

8) The shivans enter Gamma Draconis, enter Capella and blow up Capella.

8.1 perhaps they were still seeking to destroy the "ancients" home world
8.2 but still many leave to subspace before the super nova ...

It all makes sense until the FS2 shivans blow up that star ...

I still think that Boschs role in that whole affair is not to be underestimated (at least in opening the door). If he really reached his goal - who knows. That might also have been in complete vain ...

Can someone put out holes in my plot? Especially until 5).

lol, Fun-Theory: Perhaps Bosch was hating Capella, because some Capellan guy had stolen his girlfriend. So he connected to the Shivans to destroy it ;-)!

cu

Fabian

 

Offline Maxwell

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
That reminds me of the most collectively disturbing aspect from these two games (and the expansion).
 
As the story goes on, more and more characters are either defecting or going nuts in the Shivans favor, but I don't remember if its ever really explained what any of them expected to gain from it.

The "Great destroyers" don't seem to offer anything but a swift death.
I don't recall the Alpha one of any campaign being told about any perks for betraying the GTA were other than "truth", "eternity" and "paradise"...  which (in light of the whole "swift death" thing) does not seem like stuff I'd want.  :wtf:

Half of me is tempted to ask myself if FS3 would have had the player switching sides on a more permanent basis, if only to understand what the hubbub was all about.


Not entirely related but whatever:
http://people.emich.edu/twiggin/cthulhutract4vt.gif

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
In MY theory, the Sathanes were wandering aimlessly when some scouting teams from the Ravana encountered a previously uncharted jump node (the Gamma Drax Knossos).

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Found it!!

Placeholder for future post, I have to find something I want to show you... carry on!  (don't discuss this & derail the thread! I should have it in a day or two, and I will post again when I find it  *starts searching ctrl+alt+del comics*)

Finally!  Searched through the whole thing, must've skipped over it by accident... here ya go...  The companies are even related, and the game sequel number is even the same!  ;)  :lol:

I wish someone would write a book and spill the beans already.

Nah, we can use a little persuasion on them:

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20040308

Even funnier is the result:

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20040416

 
Re: Your personal Shivan theory
This is about Shivans right? Did someone say "hard facts?"  :lol:

 
Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Hi, I'm a newly registered member of this forums. My theory on the Shivans is that they seek to exterminate all forms of life for some unknown reason (racists?) and the only reason why they didn't proceed to destroy the GTVA is that Bosch actually communicated to them. Maybe Bosch manage to negotiate with the Shivans (remember, Bosch said he wanted to save all Terrans and that his purpose for creating the NTF is not because he hates Vasudan but to save humanity).

Now, does anyone have any theory on what Shivans eat? Where do they get their resources? How do they reproduce? Do they even have shipyards? Are there any Shivan installations? How did they build their massive fleets?

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
:welcome:

Welcome to HLP. If you haven't done so already, go get Turey's FreeSpace Open Installer and praise all that is the SCP goodness.

In other news....



MY theory for Shivan ship making is that it is made with Lego, in subspace, and then when it is taken out of subspace it becomes big.

I don't think Shivans eat organic substances, or consume needed nutrients the way we do. I think they just get created somehow (through cloning?) with a set power supply of maybe six years, and then die when it runs out. What a way to live! :D They could also recharge themselves (however corny that may sound).

Their resources can't be too far off since we haven't found other technology, but it must have something to do with the red stuff in their ships, which would most likely power the Shivans themselves, too. I remember reading somewhere that the energy of their ships 'come from the Shivan itself.' This, to me, implies that the Shivans can 'integrate' into their ships better than humans or Vasudans, controlling their ship as if a part of their body structure.

If you go on the hypothesis that the Shivans were a hivemind, then you could say that the Shivan hivemind, after working normally for many thousands of millenia, got corrupted, and then decided to go on a rampage and destroy the universe.

 

Offline wtf_cl0vvn

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Their resources most likely include nebular gas and dust, or perhaps asteroids, given their lack of planetary occupation. The only interest they ever take in planets is for destruction (vasuda prime).

As to food, (assuming they are organic) they may have some way of metabolizing compounds found in nebular gas or asteroids (ammonia and methane ice) for energy or whatever molecules they require. However, given their almost metallic exoskeleton, power blades and plasma cannon (hallfight cutscene), it's not a huge stretch of the mind to imagine that they are not organic.

They could be some sort of robot, responding only to a higher intelligence. (hive mind robots). Should they not be organic creatures, then all they would require is energy and spare parts (i suppose), and seeing as to the low value they place on shivan individual life, they might not even bother with the latter.

This would bring on two questions: were they created, or did they evolve?

Let's say they evolved. Consider: humans have already created mechanical hearts, and artificial bones and joints. Soon we will be able to grow our own skin. With a dialysis machine we can replace the function of our kidneys

Granted, none of that works very well right now, but that's beside the point. We can already self-enhance by enriching our blood to carry more oxygen (done with cyclists sometimes), and gene therapy allows us to fix some problems, at least in a limited fashion.

Who says that genetic, biomedical, and techonological advances couldn't make us superbeings like the shivans? Perhaps after millions or billions of years of evolution, we might have decided that such an evolution (maybe ONLY that evolution) of the human race would best ensure our survival. Any other subspace-capable races would have to be eliminated as a matter of protection.

This is all of course, off the cuff.

If they were created, that would easily explain away all the strange morphologies and behavior (xenocidal, inorganic and organic melds). However, why were there two different waves of shivans, with such different goals and behavior? The first shivans sought to actively destroy our fleets, and they also effected a planetary bombardment on vasuda, an action the second wave of shivans never repeated. We can maybe assume that the creators are long defunct and the shivans went separate ways, but then why such a similarity in technology?

Also, are they intelligent (on the level of humans)? It seems more likely that they are a hive mind, but might they be a collective intelligence? in FS1 this seems much less likely (the destruction of the lucifer), but in FS2 it might make sense. They throw cruiser after destroyer after corvette after fighter after bomber without regard to losses, or even any clear strategic objective. Their only objectives seem to be "Kill it. If it's bigger, that goes first." For example, 80 juggernauts are left to blow up the capella star, something they could do without a care in the world were the system occupied, yet battle is in full tilt between the allied remnant and the shivan fleets. A juggernaut at each battle location would have completely wiped out all resistance to the shivan assault, yet the only one that ever sortied was the one that destroyed the colossus. What about the Aquitaine? It was attacked twice with the intent of destruction in the nebula, yet in later phases of the war it appears to have been ignored.

personally, I offer no explanation for the shivans. Their evolution was as random as ours, or the vasudan's, or the ancient's. I'll wait for the third installment  :p (oops, that's taboo around here)
This book is a mirror. When a monkey looks in, no apostle looks out. -Lichtenberg

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Who says that the Sathanes were not deployed? Alpha 1 can't be at every single location at once you know.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
If they were created, that would easily explain away all the strange morphologies and behavior (xenocidal, inorganic and organic melds). However, why were there two different waves of shivans, with such different goals and behavior? The first shivans sought to actively destroy our fleets, and they also effected a planetary bombardment on vasuda, an action the second wave of shivans never repeated. We can maybe assume that the creators are long defunct and the shivans went separate ways, but then why such a similarity in technology?

Eh, how about they were created for the highest bidder?  Like the clones in Star Wars.  They are a weapon created by a race who created weapons for sale to other races.  FS1 and FS2 Shivans were purchased by different customers at different times for different functions/strategies.

Then, some maniac created a super virus that unbound their hive mind from their commanders, and gave them a hate for all life.  This virus was capable of infecting all Shivans, as it used the master code built into them to control them if they ever went crazy or were used by someone to try and take over the designers' planetary system(s).  It was transmitted through... subspace! :)

OK, that could probably use some refining, but, what do you think?

 
Re: Your personal Shivan theory
The second part sounds like something out of R-Type.  :p


It's a viable theory... but not suited for Freespace, I don't think. Kinda ruins the atmosphere having such a... "simple" isn't quite the right word, but it's close... simple explanation.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

  

Offline jr2

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Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Kinda ruins the atmosphere having such a... "simple" isn't quite the right word, but it's close... simple explanation.
FS2 kinda ruined that one already.  :p

 
Re: Your personal Shivan theory
Oh, I don't think so. The Shivans are just as mysterious (maybe even more so) at the end of FS2 than they were at FS1.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"