[jr2]

They defend because they deter.  Criminals that know that their victim more than likely has a gun won't want to chance it.  Also, they are most handy in home defense situations.. unless you buy that "divide the room into bullet sized sectors and that's your chance of hitting an intruder" crap.    Laser sights, weapon lights, knowing the layout of your own house, anyone? 

EDIT: and if you're going to ban guns, you're going to have to ban all ranged weapons... crossbows?

BTW, of note, in our (small) town, a startup gang calling themselves "The Chaos Crew" have started carrying Padlocks wrapped in handkerchiefs.  Go figure.

[achtung]

This is just a repeat of the V-Tech thread.  It will lead to a dead end and nothing will happen.

[Mustang19]

What do you think the internet is for? Where else do you debate politics?

Just curious, Shade, Nuclear1, and the like, what time is it where you live?

[Shade]

The rate of gun-crime in the US versus countries that have tough gun laws would seem to indicate that guns do, in fact, not deter, but simply escalate. And as for the home-defense situation? Phone. Police. Get the **** out and let the pros handle it. 2.000.000% safer, more or less.

The thing with guns is it gives a false, that is, false sense of security. You feel cocky, powerful, in control. And so you die, because having woken up in the middle of the night, bleary eyed, wobbly-kneed and practically blinded the moment any lights come on, and going up against 2 armed intruders, you don't stand a chance. Whereas the person without the gun, having gotten the hell out while there was still time, lives. No amount of smilies or silly comments will change that.

Oh, and 11pm.

[Mustang19]

I'd rather be asleep at 11pm. But meh. If HLP debate is your thing.

[Shade]

I'm watching a movie. Debating in the commercial breaks Then bed.

[Mika]

Interesting thread.

They recently made a survey of guns here, we have something like 5 guns (registered) per capita, though that might have something to do with the hunting culture and of course our Eastern neighbor. Guns are rarely used in violence crimes here, now if only people learned to behave with knives, axes, and any blunt object to mention... especially when they are drunken or divorced.

Some people mugged an electronics shop close my home village a couple of years ago. They hit the guard, but he regained consciousness when they were starting the car. The guard shot something like 18 bullets into that car, which on my opinion, was the correct thing to do. More amazingly, nobody actually got hurt. Then there was this case of fuel station keeper catching the robbers himself with the aid of a shotgun. He did not fire a single bullet, but the police had something to say about taking justice to someone's own hands...

After that brown car case, the best thing to do would have been to take the register number of the car and inform the police immediately of the death threat that was made. If this was a peaceful suburb, I suppose the police would have had a fast response time to catch this particular car and find out what was really going on. And especially if this happened close to someone's own house / lawn. If the law enforcement can't be trusted in these cases, then there is something totally wrong in the law enforcement. That kind of behavior cannot be tolerated even if they were joking.

Mika

[Nuclear1]

What do you think the internet is for? Where else do you debate politics?

Just curious, Shade, Nuclear1, and the like, what time is it where you live?

5:04pm.  I'm doing nothing with my life right now other than this.

Phone. Police. Get the **** out and let the pros handle it. 2.000.000% safer, more or less.

What's quicker, dialing 9...1...1... and waiting while somebody tries to piece together what you're saying or whipping out a pistol and firing, which might just scare the guy ****less whether you hit him or not?  A lot quicker than waiting for the police to show up.

[Shade]

Well, for one thing, if someone is robbing your house it's most likely that they don't want to attract attention, and as such won't be actively looking for you (and if they are there to kill you, and thus are actively looking for you, then a bang won't scare them off but simply pinpoint your location sparing them the trouble of looking. Worst thing you can do in such a situation is letting them know where you are while you should be putting as much distance as possible between them and you).

And if they're not looking for you, then you have time to grab your cellphone (just as quick as grabbing a gun, in fact), make an escape and then call for help, which will keep you safe, not to mention getting the invaders sent to jail since unlike your preferred course of action, you're not actually tipping them off to the fact that someone is on to them.

[Polpolion]

Curses! Another overgeneralization I don't belong to! First it was me not owning a gun, and now it's me not owning a cell phone!

[achtung]

Guns are fun.

[jr2]

Yes. As long as you use them responsibly, anyways...  Now, everyone keeps saying that you should just run away and call the police.  From this, I gather that most people posting here are single and live by themselves. 

[AlphaOne]

Well the first major mistake was to alow US citizens to have guns in the first place . I've seen individual that believe this is a fundemental right for them to have guns to defend themselfs.

Man just increase the spending on the police force get more policemen and keep the guns out of the streets and out the hands of disturbed high school kind colege kinds well disturbed people in general. Make some sort of elaborate pshichiatric evaluation mandatori for those who want to purchase a gun if you cant ban them alltoghether.

Oh and dont give the whole it would be too expensive to get that many policemen on the streets. I believe lives are worth a lot more then a few more dolars on the taxes .

[Mongoose]

Well the first major mistake was to alow US citizens to have guns in the first place . I've seen individual that believe this is a fundemental right for them to have guns to defend themselfs.

...it kind of is a fundamental right, due to a little thing called the Second Amendment.  Your level of agreement with said amendment or the level to which you feel it should be applied may vary, but brushing over the fact that it exists is rather silly.

I don't want to touch most of this debate with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole, but I did want to comment on the home invasion scenario that was mentioned earlier.  The way I see it, there is no way on this green Earth that I should be forced to run from my own home if someone breaks into it.  My home is the one place on this planet where I should be able to be secure in my and my family's persons.  If someone enters my domicile without my permission, and they intend to damage it and/or potentially harm myself and my family, then their life is already forfeit.  If I had a gun at hand (or any weapon, for that matter), I would attempt to use all practical restraint, but I would have no qualms at all about using lethal force against the intruder.

[Mars]

Yeah... great... I'm contributing to the fall of western society, I don't give a damn.

If I EVER get a gun randomly pulled on me again, I might not be as lucky, the next person the same son of a ***** does it to might not be as lucky... I want to make sure that ****er never does it to anyone again, if I get killed in the process, then **** I die... we all do it. Maybe this makes me a violent bastard who should be locked away in a box; but it's me.

Sure, the only purpose of a gun is to cause another person to die, but if you can make the person who's going to make you die, die first, or also, than you've prevented either your death, or any further deaths that individual will cause.

False sense of security my ass, right now I'm scared to leave my ****ing house... I was in front of a friends house when this happened, in plain daylight. It could happen to me... hell to anybody at any time, and it might not be a threat, the ****er could actually shoot the damn thing. If I have the ability to make the ***** either die before he can kill me, or pay for my life with his, then my sense of security is not false.

Oh and dont give the whole it would be too expensive to get that many policemen on the streets. I believe lives are worth a lot more then a few more dolars on the taxes .

Great... we can have a dictatorial ****ing state... just the way I always wanted it to end up... **** you

Yes. As long as you use them responsibly, anyways...  Now, everyone keeps saying that you should just run away and call the police.  From this, I gather that most people posting here are single and live by themselves. 

Yeah... seriously. Although they do have a point about the whole home invasion thing... an alarm system is money well spent IMO

[Fineus]

Cut down on the personal attacks and swearing, or this gets locked like you predicted it would. Thanks.

[jr2]

I think a lot of the swearing & attacks were pent up reactions from having a gun pulled on him.  I do imagine it would be quite upsetting.  (I, for one, would be wishing to get my hands on the punk, I know that much.)  BTW, did you get his license number?  Or at least the make / model, and the description?  You've reported it already, right?

[Mefustae]

Sure, the only purpose of a gun is to cause another person to die, but if you can make the person who's going to make you die, die first, or also, than you've prevented either your death, or any further deaths that individual will cause.

...But then you realise that it wasn't someone trying to break into your house and kill you, you just accidentally shot a family member. Whoops. Ah well, at least you've prevented future deaths that they may or may not have caused. Small victories, eh?

False sense of security my ass, right now I'm scared to leave my ****ing house... I was in front of a friends house when this happened, in plain daylight. It could happen to me... hell to anybody at any time, and it might not be a threat, the ****er could actually shoot the damn thing. If I have the ability to make the ***** either die before he can kill me, or pay for my life with his, then my sense of security is not false.

Okay, let's backtrack here:

You're walking along the street, suddenly you hear a car screech. You turn, and realise you're literally starting down the barrel of a gun. The gunman taunts you, but you just stand there. The car drives off and you live to write about it on HLP.

Now, let's see what would have happened if you'd had a gun, and would have thus been much safer:

You're walking along the street, suddenly you hear a car screech. You turn, and realise you're literally starting down the barrel of a gun. The gunman taunts you, so you move to pull out your own gun. The other guy sees you reaching for your weapon, and - since he already has his gun trained dead-to-rites on you - shoots you before you can even raise yours. You're dead, and the rest of HLP momentarily wonder why you haven't posted in a while.

Yep, too bad you didn't have a gun.

Great... we can have a dictatorial ****ing state... just the way I always wanted it to end up... **** you

You whine about having a gun pulled on you, but when somebody makes a sensible suggestion - more cops on the street - you whine about that and insult the person making the suggestion. What are you, twelve?

[Mars]

I apologize... sincerely... to AlphaOne

You're right Mefustae... and sorry about being an ass

it's been an odd week

[Mefustae]

I apologize... sincerely... to AlphaOne

You're right Mefustae... and sorry about being an ass

it's been an odd week

Nah, forget about it. You had a gun pulled on you, that's got to be pretty intense. Jr2 brings up a good point, have you reported it?