[Mobius]

One time admirer and lurker, first time poster and still admiring!  

Here's my observation as to what's "canon" enough to be in any Star Wars game that's set during the Original Trilogy:

(1) Any of the ships that actually appeared in the first three films
(2) Any of the ships from the prequel films

And anything beyond that is pure speculation due to the fact that the Lucas Empire has grown so mammoth that its only means of survival is to satiate itself, endlessly I might add, on money.  And they will do anything, and I do mean anything to latch their leach-like mouths on us fanboys' wallets.

Words such as "continuity," "artistic expression," and "character development" are flat out the window of a 200 story skyscraper when it comes to the empty suits that guide this behemoth.  And that's the cold, hard, and most importantly of all, easily demonstrated truth.

"Retconning" is a term of pure corporate propaganda.  And the overwhelming majority of the time, the EU's retcons are so pathetically awkward that it would be far easier to read an editorial blurb at the start of every chapter that reads "Odds are significantly high that events detailed here will be made meaningless later..."

The "sloppiness" of such "mistakes" is not genuinely accidental, but rather perfectly predictable when one reflects a little on the system that produces it.  I fell for it for a while too, but have come to see it for what it is, and I've freed myself from the ravenous cash register that the EU is.

That said, it seems implausible to me that anyone can somehow pretend that the Prequels, and all of their content "didn't" happen.  They can wish to banish them from history, but billions of current/future dollars will prove otherwise. 

For myself, the Prequel ships should be included to some degree, however marginal, in this total conversion of the FS2 engine.  As has been stated in an earlier post, the Republic color schemes on the fleets of vessels was quickly done away with, and it seems more than reasonable to expect to see them serving in some capacity in the Original Trilogy.  Just because they weren't in the OT films does not mean they somehow weren't in that universe.   

It never fails to boggle my mind how quickly fans of the completely cliche'd Thrawn Trilogy race to defend the creation of a non-cinemized Zahn craft as being more "canon" than ships that have actually been on screen.  Such individuals epitomize George Orwell's definition of "doublespeak" and "doublethink."  

The majority of the Prequel ships could easily be stuck in backwater/light duties, and be present in low numbers.  Fighter craft, which tend to have a much shorter lifespan than a capital ship, could be used quite convincingly as pirate ships, mercenary units, and whatnot.  They could even be doctored up with customized paint schemes, or (even more believably in my opinion) graffiti.  Capital ships could be handled in a similar fashion, although due to their enormous costs, it seems to me that they'd be less likely to get a new paint job.  Certainly, their weaponry and systems would be swapped out for others, and these different systems wouldn't necessarily be superior to what we've seen in the films; they could be cannibalized from even older or inferior ships.

The point is that the Prequel ships can be used, and would certainly add more flavor and character to the game.  And without question in my mind, increase the likelihood of the mod being downloaded, because in spite of all of the badmouthing of the Prequels that goes on, there are far more people who enjoyed them enough not to let the "canon technobabble" bother them in the least.  They would appreciate to see these ships, however briefly, in the game. 

  

I consider the prequels 100% canon, they are made in George Lucas' brain afterall. I don't consider "canon" ships created ad hoc for games based on Star Wars, but there's something to say about this subject.

Usually, when a game based on a film comes out, the team works with the cooperation of the creators of that film. I remember Star Trek: Invasion, full of fighters and warships that can't be found in the series we all know... the plot wasn't ST canon, ok, but the rest could be easily accepted by fans and everything was designed to fit better with the tendencies of the Federation(which are ebsentially pacifist). The Paramount checked it and approved.

George Lucas would never let other people expand his Universe without checking their work and letting the others know about his opinion. Saying "EU" is generalizing. The films don't tell us everything, I know the names of many alien species seen in the films thanks to the EU. In the first film, when Obi Wan and Luke hire Ian, you can see many criminals...but nobody in the film says their names. Thanks to a magazine I know something about them and what they've done. There wasn't enough time to tell their stories in the film, it doesn't mean GL didn't write interesting(and 100% canon) info about them.

Ages ago I played Star Wars: Rebel Assault(or something similar). A game like that isn't canon because of its storyline, it had nothing to do with the OT, games like RA shouldn't be considered at all. Games close to the OT should be welcome, however.

It shouldn't be difficult to verify if EU ships have been somewhat "accepted" by George Lucas: game previews should tell a lot about GL's influence. GL is canon, not only the OT.

[TopAce]

...George Lucas would never let other people expand his Universe without checking their work and letting the others know about his opinion...

That's not entirely true. There are EU works Lucas has never even heard about. Some time ago I read it on Wookiee that he is not even informed of Ben Skywalker's existence, which is not a most recent addition to SW continuity.

[Mobius]

Then bring to the SWC everything he has approved.

[chief1983]

Right but part of the problem is determining what order to do that in, that's a lot of information and ships.  We just plan on focusing on the iconic OT ships and then the EU stuff you might have seen near the timeline of our campaign first.  Since our campaign isn't set in the NT, and the NT is the only place you ever see or hear of the existence of NT ships, we probably won't be doing a lot of them right off the bat.  We may not even get a few of the OT ships done, if we don't need them for a campaign or multiplayer, they might not get done.  But there's not many OT ships so I think we'll have most of them done.

[Mobius]

Take BtRL as example, they came out with a demo featuring only a handful of ships. It shouldn't be difficult to get some ships coming from the OT and others coming from the prequels and create two minicampaigns for a Demo.

[brandx0]

Well, I think a good way to put it is simply the stance we've taken for quite a while.  If you want more Prequel stuff in the game, go ahead and make it for us, and if it passes muster and is up to the quality we need we'll use it.  However, don't tell us to make it for you.

[chief1983]

I don't see how BtRL is an example, they only had one 3 mission campaign, and it's not like they used ships from the old and new series or anything.  Our handful of ships is currently not focused on the prequels, as we haven't needed any prequel ships yet.

[Mobius]

Well, I think a good way to put it is simply the stance we've taken for quite a while.  If you want more Prequel stuff in the game, go ahead and make it for us, and if it passes muster and is up to the quality we need we'll use it.  However, don't tell us to make it for you.

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I can't model...

I don't see how BtRL is an example, they only had one 3 mission campaign, and it's not like they used ships from the old and new series or anything.  Our handful of ships is currently not focused on the prequels, as we haven't needed any prequel ships yet.

IMO it would be a good idea to release a demo with a considerable number of ships and a small minicampaign(all from the OT).

Obviously, the decision is up to you

[Topgun]

I can't model... [/color][/i]

it isn't that hard to learn ya know.

[Mobius]

Let's say that my success in FREDding led me to stay away from modelling

[chief1983]

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I can't model...

IMO it would be a good idea to release a demo with a considerable number of ships and a small minicampaign(all from the OT).

Obviously, the decision is up to you

Right, the ones of us who can model, mostly are occupied with non-prequel ships.  I don't like telling other people to do something if they want it done, but I can say that none of the people currently doing, are probably doing it any time soon, due to them doing other stuff already.

And I do hope to have a considerable number of ships, even if it's just small craft for now.  With the activity spike that seems to be building up that may be possible sooner than I expected.  Time will tell.

[Mobius]

Then what about the demo...?

[chief1983]

Hopefully we'll have some form of demo campaign or mini campaign, we have ideas for both, but our idea man has been gone for a while.  We may have to pass that torch to someone else, or release without a campaign, just some single missions and some really good multiplayer.  But who needs a campaign, I mean if Sins can do it why can't we? 

[TopAce]

A 5-mission minicampaign isn't any hard to FRED as long as we have a definite plotline and all ships working as they should. So far we have neither.

[Mobius]

Hopefully we'll have some form of demo campaign or mini campaign, we have ideas for both, but our idea man has been gone for a while.  We may have to pass that torch to someone else, or release without a campaign, just some single missions and some really good multiplayer.  But who needs a campaign, I mean if Sins can do it why can't we? 

[maje]

Andy has ideas for campaign plots........ but the "prelude" mini is set before Yavin, just right before the declaration of open rebellion against the Empire and formation of the Alliance to Restore the Republic.  Expect Z-95s and Y-wings as the principal Rebel craft, since X-wings aren't readily available barring the four prototypes locked up on Fresia.  I would love to model the Alpha Nimbus V-wing at some point as a "police" craft.

[chief1983]

So lets see, Brand has the T.I.E. Fighter and the Y-Wing, and who has the Z-95...oh right, YOU!  So how's it coming? 

[Mongoose]

I'm just hoping that someone, whether on the team or not, takes on the Naboo fighter at some point.  Say what you will about Episode 1, or whether or not it really fits into the design aesthetic of the whole universe, but that ship was just cool-looking.  I'd imagine you'd be able to create a neat effect with the proper use of env. mapping, too.

[Colonol Dekker]

Looks like an ancient fighter
*patiently optimistic*

[chief1983]

I have to admit, of all the Prequel craft, the only ones I wouldn't mind seeing are that Naboo fighter, and maybe the Venator.  But we still have a lot of ships we'll need more than those.  If someone from outside the current staff wanted to model, I'd be glad to help incorporate it into the mod, but we just can't get to those anytime soon ourselves.