[karajorma]

Well I don't want anyone complaining about me not re-railing discussions that go off-topic.

[vyper]

Easy tiger.

[jr2]

Well I don't want anyone complaining about me not re-railing discussions that go off-topic.

But, if you don't, aren't there like 4 or 5 others who should do it for you?  Thus making it so that you can avoid accusations of partiality?  Or is it more like "kj is active in that thread... let him handle it while we duck and cover!"    (I'm trying to be funny here, so laugh a little  )

[karajorma]

Neither. I was actually referring to Stealth's complaint that I didn't re-rail the "neato scale model" thread.

[IPAndrews]

I like the way my over the top extremist ramblings now have their own topic 

[WMCoolmon]

I think Religion serves either to fulfill a strong need or want that most people have of feeling like they're part of something 'bigger' or that they have a purpose in life. I think that the fact that people are willing to devote so much to religion suggests that it's not something that can just be disappeared.

In its place, I would see a whole bunch of self-help style businesses springing up, I'm not sure that I like the idea of that. Better to have a bunch of misguided but well-meaning people than to have a mass of ignorant savages under the command of someone ruthless enough to take advantage of the situation.

Better the devil you know, imho.

[IPAndrews]

Why can't these people find themselves hobbies? Do something for the community? Go into therapy? Aren't these all better alternatives to joining a religion. The amount of blood spilt over religious disputes and in the name of fictional deities is inconceivable. On the other hand nobody has died due to a dispute of Freespace 2 modding.

[WMCoolmon]

Aren't these all better alternatives to joining a religion.

Why do you assume that the two are mutually exclusive?

On the other hand nobody has died due to a dispute of Freespace 2 modding.

Nobody ever really turned their life around because of it, either, to my knowledge. At the very least, it's not a common occurence. And if you want to go that route, is it really all that different for someone to invest their time in a make-believe universe than it would be for them to invest their time in a make-believe god?

[karajorma]

I think Religion serves either to fulfill a strong need or want that most people have of feeling like they're part of something 'bigger' or that they have a purpose in life.

Agreed. But how much of that need is reinforced by contact with other people who already have that same feeling?

Like I said earlier I'm still on the fence about this one. I agree though that religion does have an important role to play in the lives of certain kind f people. The question is how easily that could be replaced with something else that would have the good aspects of religion and none of the bad ones.

[IPAndrews]

Why do you assume that the two are mutually exclusive?

I didn't. I'm merely providing alternatives as a way of undermining your argument for religion's supposed usefulness.

Nobody ever really turned their life around because of it, either

So you think the positives of religions outweigh the negatives?

And if you want to go that route, is it really all that different for someone to invest their time in a make-believe universe than it would be for them to invest their time in a make-believe god?

Yes. The difference is the difference in related atrocities. Crusading, sucide bombing, DaveB worshipping modders. Just ain't happening mate.

[castor]

To completely remove religions => remove existential questioning.
To remove existential questioning => remove the ability to think.

To completely remove religions => remove the ability to think.

[Ghostavo]

Are you suggesting that atheism is a religion? Or implying that atheist don't think?

[colecampbell666]

I agree with Swantz on this, religion is a reason to hate. Why were the crusades started? Instead of going to church, people could easily volunteer at the food bank, or join a fund raiser for cancer. Religion doesn't cure disease, or hunger. I'm sure that some of you will disagree, though.

And atheists do think, It is the religious sheep who are content to follow the pack.

[WMCoolmon]

So you think the positives of religions outweigh the negatives?

No, I think that the extreme negatives that you point to as being caused by religion only occur because of something else. I don't see many religious jihads happening in the United States; I certainly hear of more car crashes than religious jihads in the United States. The worst I hear of is some legal intolerance; and yet I believe that that's also because people fear things and then use their religion as an excuse.

And if you want to go that route, is it really all that different for someone to invest their time in a make-believe universe than it would be for them to invest their time in a make-believe god?

Yes. The difference is the difference in related atrocities. Crusading, sucide bombing, DaveB worshipping modders. Just ain't happening mate.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "there is no gain without risk". We do things in FS2 Modding that doesn't cause strong feelings, so its potential for life-changing good is less. But that also means that its potential for harm is less. We have our own form of crusading; look at what happened with Derek Smart. It's simply that FS2 modding doesn't affect people to the point where they're willing to go out and risk their lives for it.

The extremes of religion are, IMHO, more a consequence of the basic nature of people than of some inherent nature of people. Having a ****ty day? Doesn't matter. God loves you and has a plan. If that person really believes that, they're going to be happier as a consequence, and probably have a better day because they won't be a jackass to everyone they meet.

Of course, then there are the people that want to use that for hate-mongering. Don't hate homosexuals? Doesn't matter. God knows better and has a plan.

But I think that it is much more likely that a non-sheep religious person will go, "Wait a minute - Jesus bases his philosophy on love and forgiveness. Does it really make sense, then, to go out and hate people in His name?"

And I think that an atheist sheep are just as likely to do wrong things out of "going with the flock" as religious sheep. But it's the religious sheep that you see committing all the hate crimes, because the non-sheep are too smart to get involved in that.

Or in other words, being a sheep transcends being religious or non-religious.

[colecampbell666]

Google "Benny Hinn". Point proven. It may only be one person, but look at the effect that religion can have on people.

[WMCoolmon]

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Mahatma Gandhi

Even Albert Einstein.

Has religion now outlived its usefulness because we have the internet?

[karajorma]

Einstein is a bad example. He wasted his last 30 years trying to disprove quantum mechanics cause "God does not play dice"

No, I think that the extreme negatives that you point to as being caused by religion only occur because of something else. I don't see many religious jihads happening in the United States; I certainly hear of more car crashes than religious jihads in the United States. The worst I hear of is some legal intolerance; and yet I believe that that's also because people fear things and then use their religion as an excuse.

The US is a much more secular nation than the countries that do have Jihads. There's no reason to believe that it couldn't easily swing round to being a theocracy again if the conditions were right. The so called "Moral Majority" would love to see that happen.

[Cyker]

Also, note that there are 'religions' other than Christ-based, and Islamic ones.

Consider Tao, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wiccan...
(And perhaps also Pastafarian, Jedi... )

Love or Hate is not due to religian - That is just us. I believe the word is prejudice.

You'll get prejudice whenever you have differences in some arbitrary metric.

Given that we're all stuck on this ball of molten minerals covered with a layer of worm****, I think I've got more interesting things to complain about.

Like bus fares. Two pounds! Two-****ing-pounds!! How the **** is a two-stop journey worth two smegging pounds?!!? And this is how the government wants to encourage the use of public transport?!?!
It'd cost a fraction of that much to drive that distance!! (Well... if it wasn't for the fragging parking meters - One gob****ting pound per half hour!! I mean... WTF?!!?  )

[TrashMan]

I agree with Swantz on this, religion is a reason to hate. Why were the crusades started? Instead of going to church, people could easily volunteer at the food bank, or join a fund raiser for cancer. Religion doesn't cure disease, or hunger. I'm sure that some of you will disagree, though.

Ugh..I so hate it when people bring ancient history into this debates..and allways the crusades. Waht happened, happened. It's in the history. and you should know that religion wasn't the prime motivation for those wars - it was teritory and riches, as allways.

Food bank? Helping the poor? What do you think the Church does, and hte church-going people? Church encourages you to help your fellow man, organizes shelter and food for the homeless, education and help for the 3rd world countries.

The Curch is the biggest humanitarian organization in the world...yeah, I see how the world would be a better place wihtout it

And atheists do think, It is the religious sheep who are content to follow the pack.

Console yourself with those words. You follow a pack just as much as religios people do, only it's of a different kind and name.

[Hazaanko]

All religions should be wiped off the face of the earth. The word of god has been a convenient excuse for mistreating your fellow man for far too long.

Is this guy serious?  Talk about lack of experience.