[eliex]

 Think about it. The only reason that the Shivans were able to whip up the GTVA's butts was because of their sheer numbers and the fact that their cap ship were so powerful.
              NO THANKS TO THEIR FIGHTERS - OR BOMBERS EITHER!!

Like, a SF Mara has a max. speed of 120, and a SF Aeshma one of 110!
Their weapons are so bad - shields down = dead fighter

 A flak gun can single-handedly wipe out an Astaroth.

 Maybe it's to even the balance between sheer strength and how should I put it?
Storyline?

Sorry . . . I really interested - can you state your points? 

[Gamma_Draconis]

Gameplay issues. Also, you gotta view of Freespace as a universe and not ingame stats. What can be said is that GTVA pilots are superior to Shivan pilots. they apparently receive more training.

[TrashMan]

Indeed.
And the GTVA are no strangers to war. Even in FS1 both sides had great fighters. You+'d think that after 32 years and studying captured shivan fighters, they would be far more on pair with the shivies.

[admiral_wolf]

But we only know about the Dragon and the Mara classes.  Unless the GTI and the the GTVI divisions are keeping more from us.

[karajorma]

We only saw the Dragon get captured. We really don't know how SOC got their Maras except that they were "captured early in the nebula campaign"

[TrashMan]

Besides, even IF the Dragon and Mara were the only shivan fighters captured, you don't think that's enough. IIRC, those were the most advanced shivan fighters crafts known to the GTVA.

[karajorma]

Maybe I'm being greedy but I'd want a captured Seraphim too.

Then again Terran Bombers aren't ahead of Shivan bombers in the same way and the best GTVA bomber is based on Shivan bombers.

[jr2]

I'd like a Manticore (or whatever fighter was seen in the FS2 opening cutscene that can use all of its axis).

[Admiral_Stones]

Without the ridiculously strong Alpha 1 the GTVA would've been wiped out.
Storyline-ish, every Shivan ship is superior to it's terran counterpart.
Except the Astaroth.

But, you can easily imagine, if Shivans had even superior weaponry it's double arse kicking.
But their wepons suck. Probably gameplay.

[NGTM-1R]

The Shivans have glaring weaknesses, really. The problem is they're difficult to exploit. The Shivan fleet is optimized for offensive warfare to the point where the simply fall apart on defense; witness much of the Nebular Campaign. The problem is how to make them defend, because aside from their ships themselves, they have no targets one can force them to defend.

[Dark Hunter]

Without the ridiculously strong Alpha 1 the GTVA would've been wiped out.
Storyline-ish, every Shivan ship is superior to it's terran counterpart.
Except the Astaroth.

And the Aeshma. I've yet to see an Aeshma score a kill on anything.

[TrashMan]

You can't beat a Ursa...those things are wicked

[Mobius]

Gameplay issues. Also, you gotta view of Freespace as a universe and not ingame stats. What can be said is that GTVA pilots are superior to Shivan pilots. they apparently receive more training.

Yours in an assumption. It may or may not be correct.

Shivan pilots are always ready to die and very good in combat. I recall many things in the Universe(not in the game) that lead me to consider Shivan pilots fearsome opponents....the intros. We see Manticores, not even Dragons, wipe out T-V units with impunity. In the Bastion cutscene of FS2 Terran pilots destroy Maras, ok, but don't forget the 70th Blue Lions, that was partecipating to the operation.

We could criticize Terran and Vasudan craft and find plenties of weaknesses...when we fly, let's say, a Hercules I know that in my hands it is a powerful craft while it sucks in the hands of the AI.

I can't claim that the Astaroth, in good hands, is a fearsome opponent because I have never had a chance of using it.

[TrashMan]

To me it's somehow logical that the GTVA has better piltos.

If Shivans have better weapons, better ships, FAR greater numbers AND better or equal piltos the GTVA woud have been wiped out long ago. Ergo, I think it's one of the few advantages the GTVA had to use to it's fullest.

[Mobius]

It isn't logical. Keep in mind that many Shivan pilots are veterans of thousands of battles.

[Jeff Vader]

Really? Do we have some proof that the Shivan lifespan is incredibly long, even thousands of years? Can we really assume that the Shivans piloting the fighters were precisely the same individuals that fought in previous battles, possibly even against the Ancients? Nah, too big an assumption.

[Mobius]

Then the veterans trained them...

[Steel Prophet]

Well i guess GTVA did the same... Veterans training the new pilots... 

[TrashMan]

Then the veterans trained them...

Shivans obviously place little value on the lives of individuals. While we go to great lengths to train our pilots and keep then alive (ejection, recovery) to them even large warships are expendable. It might be because training pilots ain't cheap and we humans are stingy.

Anyway, unless they are machines I seriously doubt they have a lifespan of thousands of years.
Every impression I got from FS2 points towards a "drone like" shivan behavior.

[Admiral_Stones]

I've got a theory there. What when all the Shivan fighters are in fact computer controlled drones, and maybe only capital ships are crewed?
Please tell me if I'm terribly wrong