Author Topic: FS2 IP fund  (Read 8892 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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Oh my god...are we seriously doing this again?

 

Offline Bob-san

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Your idea has a crucial flaw Bob, it's illegal to make a profit from the SCP.
I never said make a profit from SCP. I said make a profit from the actual Freespace 2 distribution, including paying a commission to members of this community (SCP coders) to update the engine. If they want SCP--include a link to download it (again--free. If it must be paid for--bandwidth can be paid by any revenue generated).

Thus making a profit from it.

a. It's a pipe dream
b. It's illegal
c. Owning the IP doesn't give you the rights to the game engine.
Geeze--read the difference between the original Freespace IP and the new SCP additions. Anyways--owning the IP, at the very least, lets us distribute the game. Pipe dream or not--the day is still coming and someones going to do something eventually. As for owning the engine--it's already open source but licensed to be distributed for profit (AKA revenue).

One last time:

1) Buy the Freespace IP for $xx,xxx
2) Sell copies of Freespace, Silent Threat, and Freespace 2 to make back at least a large portion of the $xx,xxx spent
3) If viable legally, pay known programmers (preferably from the SCP project, but the newly updated code not "open source") to update the engine to support popular Operating Systems
4) If viable financially, access Volition's willingness to release or purchase anything else Freespace related (such as an expansion pack, all original materials, or possibly another game, be it Freespace 3 or otherwise)
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Offline Unknown Target

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Your idea has a crucial flaw Bob, it's illegal to make a profit from the SCP.
I never said make a profit from SCP. I said make a profit from the actual Freespace 2 distribution, including paying a commission to members of this community (SCP coders) to update the engine. If they want SCP--include a link to download it (again--free. If it must be paid for--bandwidth can be paid by any revenue generated).

Thus making a profit from it.

a. It's a pipe dream
b. It's illegal
c. Owning the IP doesn't give you the rights to the game engine.
Geeze--read the difference between the original Freespace IP and the new SCP additions. Anyways--owning the IP, at the very least, lets us distribute the game. Pipe dream or not--the day is still coming and someones going to do something eventually. As for owning the engine--it's already open source but licensed to be distributed for profit (AKA revenue).

One last time:

1) Buy the Freespace IP for $xx,xxx
2) Sell copies of Freespace, Silent Threat, and Freespace 2 to make back at least a large portion of the $xx,xxx spent
3) If viable legally, pay known programmers (preferably from the SCP project, but the newly updated code not "open source") to update the engine to support popular Operating Systems
4) If viable financially, access Volition's willingness to release or purchase anything else Freespace related (such as an expansion pack, all original materials, or possibly another game, be it Freespace 3 or otherwise)

It's not liscenced to be distributed for profit, it's open source ONLY UNDER the provision that it NOT be used for profit.

1) You can't, it's not just $xx,xxx, try $xxx,xxx,xxx.  Plus, Interplay probably won't part with it, and if they do, they'll probably put all sorts of stipulations on it, like you have to develop a game within X amount of time (like Fallout).

2) You can't, no one wants to buy a 7-8 year old game. You're a fanboy, we're all fanboys, of course we're going to want to buy it, but I don't know if you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years or so, so let me spell it out for you; no one wants to buy space games these days. EVE online, arguably the most successful one out there, isn't even a space game, it's an MMO, and that only has about 130,000 people playing.

3) Good luck with that.

4) Hah, yea right. Most of the original [V] staff is gone, and the ones that are still around are controlled by THQ.

You really have a massive lack of understanding of the industry as a hole, and just how old FS2 is, not to mention how old that this style of gaming is. Case in point; the interface. We can navigate it easily, we think it's really easy to use. One of the biggest problems with the BTRL release was people not getting how to use an interface that was designed for a more tech-savvy generation of gamers who weren't used to console interfaces.

 

Offline colecampbell666

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The lisence wouldn't be that expensive as you said:
2) You can't, no one wants to buy a 7-8 year old game. You're a fanboy, we're all fanboys, of course we're going to want to buy it, but I don't know if you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years or so, so let me spell it out for you; no one wants to buy space games these days.
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 

Offline CP5670

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Yeah, the IP is fairly cheap, but he's right about everything else there.

 

Offline karajorma

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I'd bet buying a license to develop a game in the FS universe is cheap. That's what they did with Fallout 3. (You'd be scuppered if :v: have first refusal though).

I doubt buying the entire IP (i.e getting Interplay to relinquish any rights to the game for ever) is cheap at all.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Bob-san

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Your idea has a crucial flaw Bob, it's illegal to make a profit from the SCP.
I never said make a profit from SCP. I said make a profit from the actual Freespace 2 distribution, including paying a commission to members of this community (SCP coders) to update the engine. If they want SCP--include a link to download it (again--free. If it must be paid for--bandwidth can be paid by any revenue generated).

Thus making a profit from it.

a. It's a pipe dream
b. It's illegal
c. Owning the IP doesn't give you the rights to the game engine.
Geeze--read the difference between the original Freespace IP and the new SCP additions. Anyways--owning the IP, at the very least, lets us distribute the game. Pipe dream or not--the day is still coming and someones going to do something eventually. As for owning the engine--it's already open source but licensed to be distributed for profit (AKA revenue).

One last time:

1) Buy the Freespace IP for $xx,xxx
2) Sell copies of Freespace, Silent Threat, and Freespace 2 to make back at least a large portion of the $xx,xxx spent
3) If viable legally, pay known programmers (preferably from the SCP project, but the newly updated code not "open source") to update the engine to support popular Operating Systems
4) If viable financially, access Volition's willingness to release or purchase anything else Freespace related (such as an expansion pack, all original materials, or possibly another game, be it Freespace 3 or otherwise)

It's not liscenced to be distributed for profit, it's open source ONLY UNDER the provision that it NOT be used for profit.

1) You can't, it's not just $xx,xxx, try $xxx,xxx,xxx.  Plus, Interplay probably won't part with it, and if they do, they'll probably put all sorts of stipulations on it, like you have to develop a game within X amount of time (like Fallout).

2) You can't, no one wants to buy a 7-8 year old game. You're a fanboy, we're all fanboys, of course we're going to want to buy it, but I don't know if you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years or so, so let me spell it out for you; no one wants to buy space games these days. EVE online, arguably the most successful one out there, isn't even a space game, it's an MMO, and that only has about 130,000 people playing.

3) Good luck with that.

4) Hah, yea right. Most of the original [V] staff is gone, and the ones that are still around are controlled by THQ.

You really have a massive lack of understanding of the industry as a hole, and just how old FS2 is, not to mention how old that this style of gaming is. Case in point; the interface. We can navigate it easily, we think it's really easy to use. One of the biggest problems with the BTRL release was people not getting how to use an interface that was designed for a more tech-savvy generation of gamers who weren't used to console interfaces.
1) If they want a new game... what can we do? Depending on the issues--it could be possible that we simply buy the IP license and can redistribute the game. If they have all those clauses on buying the IP... again, what can we do? Other than negotiate about it... not much really. I'm sure they'd be fine with absorbing, for example, a percentage of the profits.

2) There's probably enough people who would go legal to break even, despite the now-deceased market.

3) There are always programmers for C and C++... it's just that the SCP coders already know what to do. If the ability to change the engine (aka patch) is given to us, then we can do whatever we want with the engine license without breaking an agreement with :v:. Again--even if it's unchangeable, it's still better to have something to go on.

4) Enough of the writers and other senior staff are around. Individual art isn't THAT important when compared to the storyline. Again--if nothing else, it should give us a serious bartering chip to get all of the original material off of :v:'s tape backups.

Buying the entire IP would be more expensive, no doubt. Still--it's going to be much less than, for example, the Fallout IP. That game was already successful and the market is still there. The Freespace IP is different--it never sold that well in the beginning and the market is basically gone for now. It'll be significantly more than we would want to spend.

I'd be happy just to be able to buy a legal copy of Freespace 2 for less than the $50+ copies at eBay.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 04:28:10 pm by Bob-san »
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Bob-san: The Rancor.

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
4) Enough of the writers and other senior staff are around. Individual art isn't THAT important when compared to the storyline. Again--if nothing else, it should give us a serious bartering chip to get all of the original material off of 's tape backups.

They never thought about the story much beyond FS2, and a story is a relatively minor part of a game in any case. You can't make a game out of just a story.

As for the backups, they're willing to give us that already but the tapes containing most of the stuff are damaged if I remember right.

 

Offline Turey

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As for the backups, they're willing to give us that already but the tapes containing most of the stuff are damaged if I remember right.

IIRC, they're damaged, but recoverable. It'd just cost a lot to do so.
Creator of the FreeSpace Open Installer.
"Calm. The ****. Down." -Taristin
why would an SCP error be considered as news? :wtf: *smacks Cobra*It's a feature.

 

Offline S-99

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What's this about fs2 being distributed illegally? I thought it was abandonware and therefore could be distributed freely like it was. Home of the underdogs, the installer downloads, shiv's compilation fs2 download, hip63's dvd installer compilation release, torrenting, and that one website where the iso's are up for download directly. I also forgot the ftp servers where the files are for download manually (back in 2004 at least).

I'm sure people wouldn't go through such obvious maneuvers to getting a game out if it were illegal or many asses here would have been toasted already. I understand that fs2 is abandonware and many people understand that too, and have taken advantage of that fact of fs2 for years. Modifying the engine is allowable, but selling any part of fs2 (unless it be the user created graphics and models) is of course illegal.

The only obvious questionable thing here is distributing fs1 + silent threat. And that's where the port comes into bypass distributing the fs1 + silent threat directly.
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Offline IPAndrews

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I saw this thread title and got excited. Then I realised nobody wanted to give me money after all and I was sad. Then I read the proposal and thought it was a silly idea because it woudln't serve any useful purpose. Since releasing a new Freespace sequel commercially would be financially suicidal, and my mate Dave could release a Freespace sequel non-commercially without buying the IP. Of course most people in the Freespace community would rightly frown on anything labelled as Freespace 3 but not involving any of the original producers, as discussed many times here. Seriously, the pointlessness of this thread is just astonishing.
Be warned: This site's admins stole 100s of hours of my work. They will do it to you.

 

Offline karajorma

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What's this about fs2 being distributed illegally? I thought it was abandonware and therefore could be distributed freely like it was.

Abandonware is not a legal definition. It's definitely not the same thing as abandoning a trade mark (which it's pretty obvious :v: haven't done anyway).  Abandonware = Stuff that's old and forgotten about that I think I can get away with copying.

Now while you mention lots of things that have been done with the FS2 IP if we ever got a cease and desist letter from :v: or Interplay we would have to stop doing all those things. We haven't cause Interplay doesn't seem to care. If FS2 really was legal to distribute we'd have gone a lot further than we have done.
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Offline chief1983

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We still could never charge for it.  We haven't had a controlled enough dev environment.  If it got out that one person created something for it using an illegal copy of some high-profile software, we'd probably all be hosed.  Not charging money is the only way we could ever distribute it.
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Offline S-99

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How much further for putting fs2 out there for free can this community do :lol: It's already over the top, i listed the top/all ways to get fs2 already :)
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

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Offline karajorma

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Well for a start if it were Freeware we could get it on some magazine coverdisks with a bunch of big mods. That would probably do more to get the game out there on it's own than anything else we've done so far.
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Offline S-99

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That's an awesome idea. So far the only part of fs that we could do that with is the scp binaries and the mvp's along with an instruction with the notice "hope you got fs2 install discs".

Unless V is trying to do something, i hope that they make the game freeware eventually.

EDIT: I'm also curious as to the few yearly times that V visits this place that do they ever ***** about the many ways to get fs on a computer that the hlpbb offers? I mean they had to notice, it is public announcement around here when some new and easier way of getting fs comes about.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline karajorma

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Last time I remember anyone from :v: actually visiting was when Dave B said that he'd like to see Stencilled Shadows in the engine. That was years ago (FS2_Open 3.5.5 or earlier IIRC). Haven't seen anyone since. 
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If anyone would be coming after you for distributing the game files, wouldn't that be Interplay rather then Volition anyways?  Not that they've shown any interest in doing so of course.
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Offline IPAndrews

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No. Volition are refreshingly chilled out and sane. Other parties probably don't know.
Be warned: This site's admins stole 100s of hours of my work. They will do it to you.

 

Offline karajorma

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If anyone would be coming after you for distributing the game files, wouldn't that be Interplay rather then Volition anyways?  Not that they've shown any interest in doing so of course.

My guess would be that either of them would have legal standing to sue you.

Quote
Copyright Information
---------------------

FreeSpace 2 (c) 1999 by Volition, Inc. All rights reserved.
Portions (c) 1999 Interplay Productions. All rights reserved.
FreeSpace 2, Interplay, the Interplay Logo, and "By Gamers. For Gamers." are trademarks of Interplay Productions. Windows(r) 95 is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Exclusively licensed and distributed by Interplay Productions. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

At the very least they've got you on Trademark infringement.
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