[AlphaOne]

Well making ships look like a fish or something may look stupid to us but to them it may be the best way to implement theyr tech. The point is each species has its own way of developing the same sistem and implementing it.

[TrashMan]

E=mc² applies to them teh same way as it does to us.

There may very well be some differences in design depending on techonogy and certain preferences, but the physical laws that also govern design are the same.
Based on those laws there are only X ways to make something that is good, and out of those X not all are equal.

[AlphaOne]

Granted but then again how can you be sure they are not some sort of non corporeal beeings that use they strange voodoo like powers to make things ??????

[Snail]

Noobne said the Ancients became all powerfull gods etc etc. We  or at least I personaly believe that they are not extinct as everyone believes.

If they were not being chased by the Shivans for 8,000 years and managed to establish a long-term society they would be god since they had 8,000 years to evolve and adapt.

I think after the Ancients got nuked they degenerated and are now another very primitive civilization living on some random place far away from the clutches of the Terrans and Vasudans.

Well, I think Woomeister had planned an additonal campaign called 'Gateways' which would be about the ancients. 

It is to be noted they don't team up with us to destroy the Gargant in this new story either.

[TrashMan]

Granted but then again how can you be sure they are not some sort of non corporeal beeings that use they strange voodoo like powers to make things ??????

Magic falls in the fantasy department, remember?

[AlphaOne]

So umm perhaps they use theyr advanced tech that is infused into theyr bodies to make them have voodoo like powers :P:P:P

[Flipside]

That was one good thing about Star Trek, they figured it out because they were smart, not because of some millennia-old Post-It note left by an ancient race, which just happens to be found in time, a few too many sci-fi series' rely on that little trick.

It's like Stargate Atlantis...

'Oh look! We have sensors, just in time to detect an alien spaceship!'
'Oh look, we have life-sign scanners, just in time to look for that Wraith stowaway!'
'Oh look, we've been sitting here on our arses for several months, but we're not going to investigate any ship defence systems until the wraith actually arrive!'

[TrashMan]

Just In Time = cliffhanger?..suspense? .. or cheezines?

[S-99]

MMmmmm cheese. In my race where everyone is me, we just finished a cliff hanger of co-jack and desire a real ending of swiss. Fs1 sort of had that old ancient post it note idea. But, it was only there once, and pretty minimal.

There was only one time in the fs series where vasudans and terrans had to follow what an all powerful ancient race had to say to defeating the lucifer. In everything else it's great how in fs's story line how the vasudans and terrans are greatly left to their own devices, tactics, and alliance with no magical powerful race to ask any advice of or to intervene.

[Flipside]

Just In Time = cliffhanger?..suspense? .. or cheezines?

It's often done in a terribly clichéd manner....

'Commander, that Zurion Particle Wave is 5 hours from destroying all life on Earth!'
'Don't worry, our science team just finished decoding that tablet we found 4 miles under the surface of Titan, it contains symbolic diagrams on how to create an energy field that reflects Zurion Particles! They even left us a planet sized generator for an example...Lucky for us eh?'

[Gamma_Draconis]

I find it very difficult for a new race to suddenly appear. The Shivans seems to be more than capable of keeping the GTVA in its cradle. The GTVA are rather lucky that the two species exist so close to each other. If they were separated, the Lucifier fleet would have probably destroyed them with ease. The Ancients are gone and I want them to stay gone. I hate it when some seemingly powerful race comesfrom no where and give the humans a crudeload of advance technology. It's so overused, it's clichéd.

I agree with Flipside, it's what made Star Trek and Stargate SG1 (To some extent) great series. The GTVA should stay the way they are; they should improvise when the situation calls for. It's what kept them alive afterall. Even if of Command's decisions and advice are pretty much crap.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Well lets assume for a minute that there are a few ancients left throughout the universe.  After a war of that magnitude what's to say they have the necessary technology to rebuild.  Think about it if all but a few thousand people on Earth were wiped out today how many would even know how to build a simple computer and base OS out of almost nothing?  Even if they did have th knowledge what about the infrastructure to build ships and weapons?  It could take thousands of years just to build up the population and manufacturing capacity to even think about building a spacecraft.  What we know about them is very limited.  Heck they might live for a thousand of our years and might only be able to reproduce one or two offspring every few decades if fertilization occurs.  Heck 1 of their years could be a 100 of ours of vice versa.  How would we even be able to tell from a transaction with no reference of where they came from and what their planetary orbit was like?

That said it might be possible to run into some with advance knowledge but no way of using it.  Or maybe advanced technology but no way to use it.   Might have to run into more than one group of them to put the puzzle together. 

Then again maybe we've already almost equaled their technology but not their numbers.

Isn't speculation fun?

[Hellbender]

Well lets assume for a minute that there are a few ancients left throughout the universe.  After a war of that magnitude what's to say they have the necessary technology to rebuild.  Think about it if all but a few thousand people on Earth were wiped out today how many would even know how to build a simple computer and base OS out of almost nothing?  Even if they did have th knowledge what about the infrastructure to build ships and weapons?  It could take thousands of years just to build up the population and manufacturing capacity to even think about building a spacecraft.  What we know about them is very limited.  Heck they might live for a thousand of our years and might only be able to reproduce one or two offspring every few decades if fertilization occurs.  Heck 1 of their years could be a 100 of ours of vice versa.  How would we even be able to tell from a transaction with no reference of where they came from and what their planetary orbit was like?

That said it might be possible to run into some with advance knowledge but no way of using it.  Or maybe advanced technology but no way to use it.   Might have to run into more than one group of them to put the puzzle together. 

Then again maybe we've already almost equaled their technology but not their numbers.

Isn't speculation fun?

Good points FUBAR.

There are a lot of "What if?"s available, so I'm going to add a couple of cents.

And the thing is they can make a lot of sense - take a look at our own history. Human civilization has reached peaks and depths for as long as we can exhume the past of our species. It's a repeating process. It's sobering when you consider that the odds are that the same pattern will befall our society. I'm not predicting doom and destruction, just pointing out that history seems to move in cycles, so who knows? Maybe our descendents could be huddling in caves rediscovering fire some time down the road.

If such is possible for us, then why not another race like the Ancients? I think its very possible that after suffering such major deafeat and losses as they apparently did to the Shivans that and workable surviving colony might just run through some very degenerate times. I'm talking about a highly advanced civilization very very dependant on technology for their survival. Suppose when they ran for their lives it did not occur to them to bring along means to produce their own food or other needs? Would easily lead to some pretty nasty scenes among the refugees.

While this goes against other story ideas that have been tossed around, including some of my own, I think it is a valid counterpoint to the secret comeback theories.

[Marcus Vesper]

I hate it when some seemingly powerful race comesfrom no where and give the humans a crudeload of advance technology. It's so overused, it's clichéd.

I agree with Flipside, it's what made Star Trek and Stargate SG1 (To some extent) great series.

Please tell me you watched First Contact?  Because that's essentially the exact way the Federation got it's start, though the Vulcans didn't just "show up", they noticed our very first crude warp drive.  Still, highly advanced aliens show up to give humanity a bunch of kickass gadgets.

[karajorma]

Yes but in that case it's not just in the nick of time to prevent the end of the world.

[Marcus Vesper]

Yes but in that case it's not just in the nick of time to prevent the end of the world.

Well, since the Borg traveled back in time to stop the first contact from ever happening, and since Earth was completely assimilated in the present before Picard and company stopped them, you could argue that the Vulcans showing up and giving us the kickass gadgets constitutes preventing the end of the world, because now we have phasers.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.  Plus I love that movie.

[Flipside]

Star Trek isn't totally immune to it, but it's certainly a lot better than Stargate:Atlantis for those particular type of storylines. If, however, we were discussing Time Travel, I'd be attacking Star Trek's storylines just as vehemently

[Gamma_Draconis]

Please tell me you watched First Contact?  Because that's essentially the exact way the Federation got it's start, though the Vulcans didn't just "show up", they noticed our very first crude warp drive.  Still, highly advanced aliens show up to give humanity a bunch of kickass gadgets.

Hm, you got me there. At least it isn't Enterprise, that was poorly done and did not felt like a Star Trek at all. I'm actually talking about the original Star Trek.

[Prophet]

What did Archer have and Picard didn't? Pockets!! Thus Enterperse > NextGen/DS9/Voyager crap.

Though The original series still pwns Eterprise no question about it...

[S-99]

Enterprise was a very good series, although there really wasn't supposed to be a season 4, so they made season 4 interesting by tying into the movies and original star trek episodes when they could.

What did Archer have and Picard didn't? Pockets!! Thus Enterperse > NextGen/DS9/Voyager crap.

Though The original series still pwns Eterprise no question about it...

Everyone had pockets in all of the series, just that in enterprise everyone had way cooler uniforms and more than two non-spandex pockets.

But, star trek is great in general. It's like fs, everyone figures everything out for themselves and by collaborating with friends and allies. No god races, if the ancients were to return to the scene in supposed fs3, they'd probably be much like the almost exterminated and degenerated species everyone would expect them to be. When you're almost exterminated and barely get away with enough people to make a population again. You're not always going to get away with the person who knows how to build the ships, the person who knows how to make the alloys for the hulls, the person who knows how to do the systems of the ships. Essentially the people that would have survived would be the people who know how to do everything else, and all of the people would be the ones who know how to use their technology but not make it.

It's sort of like how a computer enthusiast can build a pc but not exactly build the processor for the machine. Granted some people who knows what it takes to build ships would survive in such a scenario, but it'd be like pepper in salt. Salt being everyone else that doesn't know how to build ships, and the few specks of pepper that do know how. I mean it's not like a whole entire ancients equivalent of triton dynamics managed to survive and stay in one group that gets settled on a new random planet 8000 years ago. So yeah i'd say their society and culture became degenerated, and by the time anyone finds the ancients again (measuring by human development terms) after 8000 years coming from a stone age to being as advanced as terrans or vasudans or less so but being able to go from system to system in the least is possible. It took humans some 6000 or more so years to get where we are today developmental wise.

The ancients being on the same level of young races to have reached the stars like terrans and vasudans would be very likely. Unless they're gods in a different galaxy and being extremely arrogant either no longer carrying about wiping out the shivans, or are going to but feel they don't need to yet, or they would have or will conquer the gtva some time soon and kick shivan ass (if the ancients were so highly advanced and with their militaristic conquering nature...yeah they'd conquer the gtva and oppress).

From what we know of the ancients in the fs1 cutscenes, i think it's very obvious that they wouldn't be gods 8000 years later. It's obvious from the cutscenes and their messages that they weren't able to keep themselves whole (whole as a species, ancient knowledge-base, technology-base, etc.), otherwise they would have been able to take out the lucifer and then humans and terrans would have been oppressed by the ancients a long time before fs1 would have happened.

What would make a good story for the ancients popping up again, is to follow the way fs does things. Sort of follow up discovery of the ancients with as much curiosity, skepticism, and risk as discovering the shivans. Of course gti knew that the shivans were around for a while, until **** probably breached containment and followed terran forces all the way back to ross 128. Another thing that would make the ancients being in a story line again good is have them just as advanced as everybody was in fs1, and of course the gtva would be with beam cannons and everything with shielded fighters and flak cannons (no one said that the ancients advance as fast as TV species). It'd really make for a great switch up with the existence of another species with the gtva being the most advanced for once (second only to the shivans). The other way of discovering species the smart way fs does is by having teams of like archeologists linked with gtvi forces who find the new ancients homeworld so that the risk of accidentally discovering a new species gets lessened so that way nothing ****ed up happens like a war with the ancients because some terran transport pilot misunderstood what some ancient was trying to say (basically something similar to the way the TV war started i'm trying to refer to).