[BlackDove]

No, the Colossus was designed to kill the strongest Shivan ship. It therefore, fails.

Beyond that, I will not comment.

A ship that can totally pwn everything but a single ship class is a faliure?
Damn, we better alert the armies of the world to scrap every singe tank, plane and ship they ever made - all are failures!

You don't seem to be able to read. Here, this'll help. Thank me later.

[TrashMan]

No I won't.

[TrashMan]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

There are several people on HLP I wouldn't like to meet in RL. One is an0n.

The other is BlackDove.

I wouldn't want to meet any of you. You are all crazy SOB's. .... just like me

[Snail]

No I won't.

How rude.

[Agent_Koopa]

It was designed to kill the Lucifer, which was the strongest Shivan ship known. What, were you chief architect, BlackDove?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

The Colossus was designed to take down ships of up to Superdestroyers in class. It was never meant to destroy a juggernaut. Keep that in mind when you wonder if the Colossus itself was a failure.
If you follow the Inferno storyline, you'll also know that the GTVA continued to make supercapital ships. The GTCa Independence and GVCa Rhemet are two such examples, both of which do not appear to be able to defend themselves properly. The Independence, in particular, has a weak flank on its port side that can be exploited (cue the EASD Nemesis).
As for the Colossus, the only weak flank I think there is is its rear.

[Prophet]

If you follow the Inferno storyline, you'll also know that the GTVA continued to make supercapital ships.

If you follow Wing Commander Saga storyline, You'd know that GTVA never existed.

What the **** does Inferno have to to with anything about canon Freespace universe I ask? Nothing. It's just a wet dream about colossal ships in beam orgy. Not canon and thus not relevant.

[AlphaOne]

Youre joking the Collie a failure??? That monster can chew up and spit out an entire fleet for breakfast and still have room to spare. The Colossus was a huge succes for what it was designed armed and prepared for and that is taking on severeal destroyer class vessels at once and winning hand down. Hell it could even take on 2 Lucy class superdestroyers and it would still win......I THINK.

The Collie WAS a superb ship. Sure it was a fuel hungry child but hey it was 6 freaking km long for the love of god.

As for the next gen of ships? Well MY take is that they will definetely start , at some point in time , to contruct new massive ships such as the big Collie . However i also believe they will be better suited for taking on large enemy ships such as the Sath either by malking them more heavely armoured or by making them have more firepower then before.

another thing the GTVA might do is try building superdestroyer classes of warships not too many just enough of the to be significat force. Lets say 3 perhaps 4 km long wich will be the sledgehammers of the GTVA while at the same time inreasing the power of its smaller ships such as the Deimos and the Sobek perhaps include a new friggate class such as the Iceni. With the destroyer classes such as the Hecate beeing more of a C%C carrier then a pure destroyer.

I mean versatilaty is the key word here and having such a diverse area of ships it can only help to make the GTVA stronger.

[Snail]

Not canon and thus not relevant.

It may not be canon but it's none (albeit very unlikely) scenario. It's as valid as you saying the GTVA wouldn't create more jugs.

Hell it could even take on 2 Lucy class superdestroyers and it would still win......I THINK.

Only since they're armed with SReds (that's less armament than a Rakshasa, which is a frikkin cruiser)

[AlphaOne]

So who cares that it has 2 SRed's the Collie was suposed to be a lot more powerfull then it is and noone complains about that. The basic truth reamain no matter how you spin it the Collie succeeded at what it was designed and that is taking out destroyers on mass and Lucy class superdestroyers. Had it been designed to take out Sath class jugs then it would of been most definetly better armed and armoured.

[Snail]

I understand that the Colossus was not a complete failure, but it was not a complete success either.

[TrashMan]

Only if your definition of complete sucess is "invulnerable, unstoppable ship of DOOM^(tm) "

[AlphaOne]

From the POV of the designer it was more then a complete succes. However you can not set a multirole fighter to take out a pure breed superior manouvering superior tech interceptor now can you? The same with the Collie vs. the Sath. In theory they were evenly matched however the truth of the matter is the Collie was no match for a Sath to begin with.

If you look carefully the Sath has more firepower in its 4 BFRed's then the entire broadside of the Collie. That is just ridiculous. It would of been a fair fight perhaps if the Sath had about 400k points of HP instead of its 1 million like the Collie.

Then its total owning beam cannons would of been balanced by its weak armour.

[Snail]

Only if your definition of complete sucess is "invulnerable, unstoppable ship of DOOM^(tm) "

It was a logistical nightmare. Look at the failure debriefing of "Into the Maelstrom".

[AlphaOne]

Who cares about that? I mean just because the GTVA was not adequately prepared to supply the Collie with what it needed thet oesnt mean the ship was a failure. I mean come on Ppl think that the Tiger tank in ww2 was a failure however when it came out the thing had no rival and for every tiger killed there were 9 allied tank killed as well. This was taken from a documentary i saw which had this statistic to it.

And the Tiger's were a nightmare to resuply and maintain yet they owned everithing on the battlefield. The same for the Panther tanks which come right next to the t-34's as the best medium tank in the world at that time.

[Snail]

It was a bit of both. It was a bad design, logistical nightmare, and it failed to stop the advancing Shivan fleet.

The Colossus was not designed to defeat the Lucifer, it was designed to be able to stop the Shivans again. Whatever excuses you may say, the Colossus failed to stop the Shivan's advance. It is a failure in that respect.

[AlphaOne]

Look even the cutscenes say that if the shivans come up with another lucifer or more the Collie will definetly be able to stop them.
It doesnt say ANYWHERE that the Collie WILL STOP 80+ JUGGS  fleet of the shivans.

Hell even if the Collie had all of its beams and stuff and double the HP it will still not be able to stop 80+ Sath's  ! I mean even if it had better beams better everithing it will be outnumbered so bad it would not stand a chance.

So if you want to look at it from the point of "oh well the blasted ship failed to stop 80+ superior tech Jugg's so its a failure" sure then you can say that but for a ship that was designed to take on MULTIPLE DESTROYERS AND SUPERDESTROYERS AND WIN  the ship was a superb succes.

[Admiral_Stones]

You don't undersand his point:

Stopping the Shivan forces = FAILURE.

Being a ship able to destroy Lucifers and other Destroyers = Succes.

[BlackDove]

Just... just tell him he's right, and make it go away. Please make it go away. My eyes. The goggles. They do nothing.

[Snail]

My eyes. The goggles. They do nothing.

Are you Microsoft Sam or something?