[Agent_Koopa]

Think about it like this;

The Sathanas came to take the Colossus out. Had Colossus jumped, it would have been followed (the Sathanas obviously wasn't playing "HALLO THAR!", it went specifically for the thing that annoyed it the most.)

Now, had the Colossus have jumped, not only would it bring a Sathanas where command didn't want it (beyond the last line), it would also have lured  it without the Colossus being able to subsequently defeat it (the ship was crippled) assuming it didn't die en-route to the node from which it would jump out of Capella. Quite honestly, I didn't really see any other option for the thing, other than for it to die like the piece of unweildly **** that it was.

Don't jump drives need time to charge? Had the Colossus jumped immediately, the Sathanas would have needed a brief moment to follow it, buying them time. You're also assuming that the Shivans needed to destroy it. The Sathanas wanted to protect the jump node for the transports coming through. Once the Colossus had fled, it may have waited a while, and then returned to its supernova-generating duties. Don't forget that what the Shivans were doing was of the utmost importance to them. They were willing to sacrifice their own ships in order to carry it out. They were not trying to destroy the enemy, they were clearing themselves room.

[BlueFlames]

Failure?

http://i4.tinypic.com/8aeeuk3.jpg

That's not what I would call a 'failure'.

Woah, woah, WOAH.  Hate to back the thread too far up, but Koth, your screenshots lack some validity.



At any rate, giving the rest of the flames thread a skim, the only real concensus, as with most Colossus threads, is that you don't stand in front of a Sathanas.  It will only let you live if you're genuinely suicidal.

[Agent_Koopa]

I believe that counts as an "oh snap".   

[Polpolion]

You know what's strange? Not a single ship has the BFGreen.

[Koth]

Failure?

http://i4.tinypic.com/8aeeuk3.jpg

That's not what I would call a 'failure'.

Woah, woah, WOAH.  Hate to back the thread too far up, but Koth, your screenshots lack some validity.

It's easy as that:http://hades-combine.com/web/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=350 Anyone remebers the table entry
of the Colossus? There were some turrets left out by Volition and this model reimplents them and improves the general weapon layout. Don't worry though, most of the new Anti Capital Beams are Terslash so it doesn't make too big of a difference. My point still stands. The original Colossus is still able to smash six destoyers at once but it needs more time and takes more damage in the process.

[NGTM-1R]

Think about it like this;

The Sathanas came to take the Colossus out. Had Colossus jumped, it would have been followed (the Sathanas obviously wasn't playing "HALLO THAR!", it went specifically for the thing that annoyed it the most.)

Bankrupt argument. This is actually one of the few cases where the tactical motivations of the Shivans were totally non-ambigous; they responded to a GTVA attempt to cut their lines of communication. The Sathanas was deployed in a counterattack, with the aforementioned purpose of reopening the lines of communication to Gamma Drac and beyond. If it had driven off the Colossus, it would have engaged other GTVA ships in the area (assuming they didn't have the brains to flee), and then remained in the area to continue to protect the Shivan line of communcations which it had come to defend against a possible return of the Colossus.

It is possible that the Shivans might have deployed a different Sathanas against the Colossus wherever it went to end the threat permanently, but as the Sathanas fleet as a whole seemed singularly uninterested in the GTVA's actions, this is unlikely.

[BlackDove]

Think about it like this;

The Sathanas came to take the Colossus out. Had Colossus jumped, it would have been followed (the Sathanas obviously wasn't playing "HALLO THAR!", it went specifically for the thing that annoyed it the most.)

Bankrupt argument. This is actually one of the few cases where the tactical motivations of the Shivans were totally non-ambigous; they responded to a GTVA attempt to cut their lines of communication. The Sathanas was deployed in a counterattack, with the aforementioned purpose of reopening the lines of communication to Gamma Drac and beyond. If it had driven off the Colossus, it would have engaged other GTVA ships in the area (assuming they didn't have the brains to flee), and then remained in the area to continue to protect the Shivan line of communcations which it had come to defend against a possible return of the Colossus.

It is possible that the Shivans might have deployed a different Sathanas against the Colossus wherever it went to end the threat permanently, but as the Sathanas fleet as a whole seemed singularly uninterested in the GTVA's actions, this is unlikely.

What the **** are you talking about? What communications? Are we just making **** up now? Is that what we're doing? We're just making stupid **** up without any mention of them anywhere.

Their Finest Hour is all about drawing the Shivan attention away from the Bastion on the other side of the Capella node (in Epsilon Pegasi). ****, the briefing tells you that. THE MISSION tells you that. The entire taskforce stationed in Capella is to draw the fight away from the Bastion and subsequently the Neried and cause a diversion. Keep the suckers in Capella until the last moment.

It worked. They sent the Sathanas. Unfortunately, the Colossus proves too much of a piece of **** to mount any kind of a diversion, being too large and too busy taking it up the ass from the four beams of the Sathanas.

Communications... "counterattack"...

Where do you people get this kind of crap from?

[TrashMan]

Shivans are as dependant on subspace as we are....ergo, they are using subspace communication too, altough they transmit quantum pulses.

In order to get ANYTHING (a ship, a signal, a message) from a system to system you need to use nodes. You need to have some kind of transmitter and reciever on both ends.
Either the shivan fleet in Capella has no communication with other shivans (unlikely) or they had it, which means they have to have the GD node under their control.

[Prophet]

BlackDove has a point (sort of) with that communications thing. Nothing really indicates it's communications Shivans were trying to protect. Could it have been their supply line perhaps? Or maybe it was about their fetish for subspace and nodes? The reasons are many.

Apart from this communications ****, I agree with ngtm1r and his assessment of the situation.

Also I may think BlackDove is a nutjob and is so zealous about this it borders unhealthy. But I won't say that, instead I'll say this: Will you ****ing give it a rest already. We get that you hate the Colossus. You're annoying go away.

[BlackDove]

Oh no. I'm annoying. People don't want me to stay

Now I'm sad.

Tough ****.

Look Prophet, I know getting your face sandblasted off by reason doesn't feel good, but you're going to have to be a brave little boy and endure, because like it or not, there are smarter people than you out there, and when some of us are facing stupidity, we get all zealous and nutjob about it.

Also, the entierty of ngtm1r's post was "this communications ****". There is no assessment or a situation in that post for you to agree with. The only thing you CAN agree with is his contrary demeanor toward what I'm posting (which was the reason he posted that stupid **** anyway, it wasn't to make a point, but just to say he disagrees with me). That, however, is just downright pathetic and childish (though unlike you, n1gtwhatever has been doing this for like two years now in an attempt to make himself feel important, because after all, saying you disagree with God (that's me) is saying you matter, and the reason it still continues, is because it fails every time).

So, no, it's not "You're annoying, go away", it's;

"BlackDove is right, and I am wrong, and therefore I concede to his infinite wisdom and would also like to express my eternal gratitude towards him for gracing my presence with his unquestionable and divine opinions and facts!"

Try saying it over and over. You can say it with me, and we can do it together to help your healing process.

[karajorma]

Replace the word communication with supply in his post and he has a reasonable point.


As for the rest of the thread. Calm the **** down guys.

[BlackDove]

Maybe, but nevertheless it's speculation on the intent of Shivans.

How much do we value those again?

The primary thing about that mission are facts. You're there to distract. Cains, Liliths, Rakshasa's, Ravanas and Sathanas come to you. There is only one logical conclusion, and that is the mere fact that you're there to distract, and it's working. From there, the only real conclusion you can reach is that wherever the distraction goes, the Shivans will follow.

I'm not saying I'm right (being serious now, unlike in my post above). However, between logic and asinine guesses as to what the Shivans are doing, anyone who considers themselves a rational man or woman, will not take "communications" as a means to explain the focus of the mission.

[TrashMan]

Focus? no.
Means to an end? Very likely.

If you want to draw the attention of the enemy force, you do it by striking at something important or vital. Basic logic and tactics.

Shivans also needs supplies. Shivans also have communications. Thus, trying to break supply lines/ communication lines is a viable tactic.

Not saying that's what the GTVA was doing, but blockading the DG node would have exactly that effect.

[karajorma]

You know what's strange? Not a single ship has the BFGreen.

No stranger than the LRBGreen. The Colossus uses both.

_{waits for someone to be foolish enough to search the ships.tbl and then try to tell him it doesn't.}

Maybe, but nevertheless it's speculation on the intent of Shivans.

How much do we value those again?

But you're doing it too. You're assuming that the Shivans actually care about the distraction enough to follow it.

The primary thing about that mission are facts. You're there to distract. Cains, Liliths, Rakshasa's, Ravanas and Sathanas come to you. There is only one logical conclusion, and that is the mere fact that you're there to distract, and it's working. From there, the only real conclusion you can reach is that wherever the distraction goes, the Shivans will follow.

Fine let's get down to the facts. It's less than 30 minutes before the Shivans are planning to supernova the system. So why are there two Asmodeus and a Mephisto heading away from the jump node?

If the Shivans are about to nuke the system and pretty much everything in it then it doesn't seem likely that it's for simple resupply of their ships now does it? Perhaps they're bringing vital equipment or supplies through, perhaps not. Doesn't matter anyway. They're bringing something through and the GTVA has stopped them.

So the Shivans would most likely act to prevent their supply lines being cut. Once the lines were restored though would they pursue the Colossus? Maybe. Maybe not. You're assuming that the distraction succeeded simply because it was a distraction and that if it moved the Shivans would follow it. I'm pointing out that it could very well be that the reason why it worked is because the GTVA picked the one target that the Shivans would be distracted by and if they moved off the Shivans might not bother chasing them. Getting more transports through the node might be more important to them.

I suspect that was what ngtm1r was on about too but he used the wrong word.

[BlackDove]

No, I'm not doing it too.

Facts are facts, and guesswork is guesswork. Fact 1; you're there to distract, Fact 2, a bunch of ships jump in including the Sathanas. Sure, maybe they're there for other reasons. Maybe they dispatched the cruisers, corvettes the Ravana and the Sathanas to guard the three transports. Maybe not. Who gives a damn? When the Sathanas jumps in, it jumps in right on top of the Colossus to vaporize it (as it does deftly so). Therefore its purpose in this mission is to vaporize the Colossus. Had the Colossus tried to run, the Sathanas would not vaporize, and therefore the only thing that can be deduced is that it would follow - this being the highest probablity based on the facts - after all, WHEN the Sathanas jumps, there is nothing else in the system to guard (the transports are destroyed).

Basing probable outcomes on facts, and basing probable outcomes on bull**** coming out of your own imagination with "communications" and "transmitters and recievers" (seriously, what the ****?) are two different things.

Intent? Up for grabs. Who knows?

Result? Pretty ****ing linear, so much so, it's nearly academic.

Now, if you want to get philosophical on me and say "But it's still possible that if the Colossus jumped out, the Sathanas would not follow because;

a) There was another batch of transports coming it would guard (a transport guarding sathanas..... okay)
b) It just wanted to twiddle its thumbs awaiting its own destruction when the sun went boom
c) It wanted to fly around in circles for no reason whatsoever"

Sure. All possible outcomes. We don't know for sure. We don't know if more transports were en route, we don't know the intentions at all. But you're not going to tell me that there doesn't exist a likelyhood for one option over the other, and that logic doesn't dictate that according to what the mission shows, the Sathanas wouldn't run after the Colossus over the other options.

[TrashMan]

after all, WHEN the Sathanas jumps, there is nothing else in the system to guard (the transports are destroyed).

the node?

[karajorma]

after all, WHEN the Sathanas jumps, there is nothing else in the system to guard (the transports are destroyed).

Forgotten about the jump node have you? How about guarding that? It's not like guarding jump nodes is unprecedented behaviour from the Shivans. 

You're trying to claim that the Sathanas must have arrived to destroy the Colossus and would follow it where ever it went. And you're completely ignoring the fact that it might have been there to defend the node and attack whatever was there.


There were two things at that location which might have been of interest to the Sathanas. The jump node and the Colossus. You're trying to say you know which was of interest to the Shivans. How is that not speculation on the intent of Shivans?

[BlackDove]

I added the final paragraph in the post above for that train of thought.

Sure. Let's examine the likelyhood of a Sathanas jumping in with an entire fleet to guard a node that's about to be covered by a Supernova. That's likely. Because as we all KNOW, the Shivans regularly send Sathanas class warships to guard nodes.

-_-

[Marcus Vesper]

I added the final paragraph in the post above for that train of thought.

Sure. Let's examine the likelyhood of a Sathanas jumping in with an entire fleet to guard a node that's about to be covered by a Supernova. That's likely. Because as we all KNOW, the Shivans regularly send Sathanas class warships to guard nodes.

-_-

That was sarcasm, but for all we know they do.  It's not as if we've had a whole lot of time to watch that particular ship class in action afterall, and the details are classified level upsilon!

[karajorma]

Maybe they send them in when that node is going to be attacked by enemy Juggernauts?