[terran_emperor]

Am i the only one who thinks that the shivans have Organic tech?

I think so...well no so much organic along the lines of the Shadows/vorlons.

But more sort-of cyber organic - sort of like their ships are part orgainc,, part machine - cyborg ships
Hey, it is cononically said somewhere that the actuall Shivan creatures encounters seemed cyber-enhanced

My reasoning was this

1)the Textures of the Shivans always got me thinking part organic
2)the way the Sathanas arms move in the endgame cutscene always struck me as organic movement rather than Mechanical
3) (SCP only) The animated glowmaps for the shivan craft reminds me of a Heart-beat & Pulse
4) Some of the ships look like they scould be on the same family-lines. As in they grow

Im serious about that last point. That is an interesting idea

My speculation is that shivan warships grow aver many Centuaries
There are 2 possible lines of growth

Cain                    Rakshassa
\/                         \/
Lilith                    Moloch
\/                         \/
????                    Ravana
\/                         \/
Demon                ????
\/                         \/
Lucifer                 Sathanas

Fighter/bombers are specially grown cannon-fodder - like the sheep soldiers drove across mine-fields in WWI/WWII
Freighers/Transports...

Id have to speculate

Mephisto > Dis
Azrael > Asmadeus

[Admiral_Stones]

Very nice. Explicitely your 'Growth Lines' make sense, especially with some ships esentially being mini-Sathanai. They really do seem to like that four-arm setup.

[jdjtcagle]

maybe, but I think of it as Mass Effect's Sovereign

[Woolie Wool]

I strongly disagree with the idea of the Vasudans or the Shivans using "organic" vessels. First of all, organic structures are invariably extremely fragile compared to true armor plating. Second, there is far less variation between members of a certain class of Shivan ship than between members of a species. This indicates that Shivan vessels are built to blueprints and specifications, just like Terran ships would be. Third, the FS1 ships especially clearly show obviously mechanical design aspects. Finally, many of the ships in the "growth line" could not possibly have arisen from or grow into others. A Demon's configuration has nothing to do with that of a Lucifer.

Shivan ships are built just like everyone else's, out of metal alloys and probably some exotic matter as well.

[terran_emperor]

I never said wholey organic...I ment Cyber-organic - the Borg (the actual drones, not the ship), The Dark Legion (American Sonic the Hedgehog comics).  Maybe even organic with amour-plating - like the Evangelions (if you don't know what Neon Genesis Evangelion is, look it up),

As to demon becoming a lucifer, that's a caterpiller to a moth/butterfly. Besides, look at the Nose of the Cain, Lilith, Demon and lucifer and tell me they don't look similar.

I never said anything about Vasudans haning organic tech.

Vasudan ships are like the minbari ships in B5. Ignore the white-star because that was a Minbari/Vorlon hybrid.
Monbari ships had that somewhat alive look, despite being mechanical. The asthetics of them was very smooth. You know what i mean...
Minbari ships look more organic that the Earth ships did.

Now Vasudan vessels are just like that. They look organic compared to Terran Design, but are just as mechanical
Vasudan vessels look more like a work of are than the cold militaristic Terran designs

Does any one get the point im trying to make here?

[TrashMan]

Terrans had no problems flying in Dragons and Maras...they don't seem organic, semi-organic, cyber-organic or cyborgish at all..not in the least.

[jdjtcagle]

I've thought of the shivans being able control their ships by a centralized conscience, like they "plugged" themselves up

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Think of the Sathanas like a digging machine. That one moves its arm too, but it doesn't live. It's simply made to move its arm.

I love the idea of growing ships, but I think that's a bit too alien, even for the Shivans. (After all, they have a lot of similarities to us too.) They obviously have hugely advanced manufacturing techiques (like growing a partially crystalline hull over nano-manufactured inner systems or so), but GROWING SHIPS...

[MP-Ryan]

I strongly disagree with the idea of the Vasudans or the Shivans using "organic" vessels. First of all, organic structures are invariably extremely fragile compared to true armor plating.

No they wouldn't be.  Organic compounds are far more resilient than metals in most environments, much cheaper to produce, and much more easily repaired.  Why do you think we use plastic for so much? =)

[terran_emperor]

do remember that inorder for terrans to fly the Shivan fighters, they had  retrofit them, replace the weapons and adding terran fight controls. They count even get the Dragon that they captured to work properly. Think - orgainc nervous system in stead of wires for fighter/bombers.

And even though it it an SCP enhancement, the Animated glow maps on shivan vessels really does remind me of a heartbeat

[Asuko]

I'd have to agree that Shivan ships do have some organic tech on them and it only seems natural. A mind-machine interface allows for better control & such. However, the growing ships part sounds a bit too far fetched for me. Interesting but not especially realistic.

[blowfish]

Has anyone else noticed that the FS1 shivans look more mechanical (like a fusion of technology and biology) , while FS2 shivan ships seem more organic in nature?  Keep in mind that I'm using these terms abstractly, this is just how they look to me, not necessarily how they are.

I think it is entirely possible that shivan ships are part biological.  I doubt that they would have likes of growth like that though.  I think that they are indeed organic, then they are bioengineered, and some design elements are used multiple times.

[AlphaOne]

I also believe that shivan ships at least some of them ike the Ravana and the Sath use at least to some extent biological tech. Or some sort of tech-organic elements are built in them.

[Asuko]

Maybe they're genetically engineered monsters made by the terrans in the future sent to wipe out any civilization that expands too far but have run amok!

Now if that isn't a run-on, I don't know what is

[TrashMan]

No they wouldn't be.  Organic compounds are far more resilient than metals in most environments, much cheaper to produce, and much more easily repaired.

 

Yeah right. Organic compounds are also severely limited and are definitely not tougher. Extreme heat, cold and radiation are common place in space. While I do believe organic matter can survive one of those, it can't all 3. Burning up in re-entry springs to mind.

[Flipside]

Remember, organic does not equate with 'alive'. Organic Chemistry is merely a certain branch of chemistry that includes Hydrocarbons etc. This includes such things as Polymers and Plastics which can be every bit as tough as their metallic-element based counterparts.

That said, personally I'm not too fond of how often insect races with organic tech tend to turn up in Sci-fi, it's like you can't be an insect without chewing your building material....

[Polpolion]

Terrans had no problems flying in Dragons and Maras...they don't seem organic, semi-organic, cyber-organic or cyborgish at all..not in the least.

Yes, you seem to be quite the expert on this. Okay, exactly what did the interface of the Mara look like (in Shivan form; not modified to accommodate terrans)? And what is its armor's chemical composition? At the very least, provide a quote from which you based the statement.

[jdjtcagle]

No they wouldn't be.  Organic compounds are far more resilient than metals in most environments, much cheaper to produce, and much more easily repaired.

 


Yeah right. Organic compounds are also severely limited and are definitely not tougher. Extreme heat, cold and radiation are common place in space. While I do believe organic matter can survive one of those, it can't all 3. Burning up in re-entry springs to mind.

They stayed AWAY from planets!

[FUBAR-BDHR]

I was thinking about starting a thread on this a couple days ago but it slipped my mind.  I think organic hulls are very possible.  Heck some of the armor on the hulls even looks like an exoskeleton with bony protrusions.  As far as them growing into new ships I don't think so.  Similarities are more likely from mass production.   It doesn't mean the ships can't be grown at factories though.   

[Flipside]

Actually, organic compounds are used in some of the most effective armour on the planet, admittedly, they are far more designed around absorbing impact damage than friction or heat damage, but the thing about Carbon-based molecules is that you can, with some work, give them properties not too dissimilar to Ceramics. It's all a question of aligning stuff properly within the molecule.