[Ford Prefect]

Only because imprisonment can, in some sense, be undone. Of course time lost to prison can't be given back, but someone can't be released from death.

[karajorma]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to turn it into a debate.  It just irks me when people claim to be "Pro-life" and then support the death penalty.  Enough said on the A word.

Then say that rather than tossing the equivalent of a verbal hand grenade into the thread.

I tend to agree with you on that. Whether you agree or not on whether a foetus is a life (and frankly we don't need to hear from either side on this thread)  it's pretty obvious that the guy sitting on death row is.  I think Bill Hicks said it best.

"Pro-lifers killing doctors. Pro-LIFErs KILLING people. 'I'm pro-life and I'm gonna kill your ass!' .. it's irony on a base level..."

[G0atmaster]

Yes.

[Colonol Dekker]

Extreme cases in my view call for extreme measures. Namely- Molestation Murder and Treason / Terrorism. You could go into sub-Categories of each and i suppose we could debate whether lesser degrees of each will reap lesser degrees of punishment but i suppose this is the point of the topic. discuss.

[NGTM-1R]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to turn it into a debate.  It just irks me when people claim to be "Pro-life" and then support the death penalty.  Enough said on the A word.

It actually makes a degree of sense when you consider it from "the everyone deserve a chance...but you ****ed yours up" point of view. Which generally happens to be theirs.

But we digress.

I, personally, favor the expansion of the death penalty's current application to include premediated or multiple rape (or maybe just rape period, depending on my mood when asked).


And there isn't a country in the world that doesn't still reserve the right to execute those whose crimes could potentionally need an accountant for keeping track of all the bodies. Granted, a lot of them haven't killed anyone over espionage or treason charges anytime recently, but last I checked they were all keeping the option open.

[Ghostavo]

And there isn't a country in the world that doesn't still reserve the right to execute those whose crimes could potentionally need an accountant for keeping track of all the bodies.

Every country that outlaws capital punishment? Which is like half the globe it seems.

[G0atmaster]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to turn it into a debate.  It just irks me when people claim to be "Pro-life" and then support the death penalty.  Enough said on the A word.

It actually makes a degree of sense when you consider it from "the everyone deserve a chance...but you ****ed yours up" point of view. Which generally happens to be theirs.

Except, far too many of them claim to be Christians, which happens to demand an infinite number of second chances within a period of one's life, and also that it's not for us to decide when one such person's life is to end.  Ergo, they are either hypocrites or just plain ignorant of the Scripture they claim to follow.

[TrashMan]

Only because imprisonment can, in some sense, be undone. Of course time lost to prison can't be given back, but someone can't be released from death.

After 20 years in prison and frequent visits from other inmates during the "uups, dropped my soap" time? Not my idea of living.

I have absolutely no objection to death penalty, assuming of course that the crime was heinous enough to deserve it and that the evidence was really compelling and overwhelming. Even then I'd give some extra time before the sentence is carries out, in case the defense finds some miracle or another.

Let's face it - the perfect set ups happen only in movies. On a few occasions innocent people do get sentenced it's mostly because the defense and police weren't doing their job right (looking for a scapegoat instead of the truth).
With a good system in place such errors would be rare.

[TrashMan]

Except, far too many of them claim to be Christians, which happens to demand an infinite number of second chances within a period of one's life, and also that it's not for us to decide when one such person's life is to end.  Ergo, they are hypocrites.

I'm Christian and I don't consider myself a hypocrite.

Gods/Christ's mercy and patience might be infinite, but my isn't.
At the end of the day I got to live my life here before I move up, and this place needs cleaning up. Extreme stains need a different approach. However it would be prudent to keep that approach to a minimum, as it can be damaging itself.

[G0atmaster]

Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"

 I answered, "Sir, you know."

   And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Forget Oxyclean.  Christ's blood is the ultimate stain-remover.

Cleaning up from a Christian perspective = repentance, a changed life.  It does not = death.  Period.  Hell is not a place designed for anyone.  Not even the "worst" of us.

[jdjtcagle]

For the record God is for the death penalty... But we are NOT God - SO....

[G0atmaster]

Yes, that's what I was trying to get at above.  God decides who dies.  Not us.  God decides who is irredeemable.

[karajorma]

I guess that "Let he who is without sin..." stuff applies to other people then Trashman?

[redsniper]

Lately, I've found myself becoming more and more of the opinion that we should stop killing people. By this I mean all cases: war, murder, death penalty, etc. Now I realize this is extremely idealistic and will most likely never be realized; war isn't going away any time soon.

However, I also don't like the idea of expending resources on keeping a prisoner alive until they die of natural causes. I think the way to solve this is that life in prison is the maximum punishment you can receive for a crime, but then you can elect to be put to death at any time during your sentence. Oh and you wouldn't wait 20 years for your execution either, as soon as you get tired of prison life, you can quit. This way, your death isn't punishment for your crime, it's your own choice. It would actually be an easier sentence, I suppose.

[karajorma]

But how would you distinguish between those who were guilty and sick of life and those who were innocent and clinically depressed about being in jail or otherwise mentally ill?

[TrashMan]

I guess that "Let he who is without sin..." stuff applies to other people then Trashman?

No one is without sin. But there are is a difference. The worst thing I did in my life is...erm.. hmmmm... lemme think...lie?
Compared to a serial child molestor or killer? You're dam right I can judge him...here on earth.
I'll leave the afterlife for God to settle.

[jdjtcagle]

Sorry but I don't agree with that statement - scripture says otherwise Trashman. 

[Mefustae]

No one is without sin. But there are is a difference. The worst thing I did in my life is...erm.. hmmmm... lemme think...lie?
Compared to a serial child molestor or killer? You're dam right I can judge him...here on earth.
I'll leave the afterlife for God to settle.

Bloody hell, i'm not a Christian by any means, but even i'm insulted by that kind of hand-waving ignorance towards the core philosophies of Christianity. By drawing a distinction between lying and murder, you're doing exactly what Jesus is supposed to have argued against in his 'let he who is without sin...' spiel, and yet you have the gall to call yourself a Christian.

It's just that kind of ****ed up, fundamentalist logic that gives religion a bad name. Right now, i'm seriously picturing you wearing a hat that says "Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out", shortly before going into a bank with a rifle and putting that **** into practice.

Aaaanyhoo, back to the topic at hand:

We're faced with two options here regarding capital punishment: Make it a deterrent, an actual deterrent, or abolish it completely.

Option A is to extend capital punishment to encompass most crime, everything from grand larceny to mass murder. Kill 20 people? Death penalty. Steal $10 million from your employees? Death penalty. With the right checks and balances to allow for a drastic cut to the current lengthly and expensive appeals process, the death penalty would serve as a true deterrent towards people committing crime. If you can create an environment where the death penalty is on the mind of the people as a real threat, I guarantee that crime will plummet in the first year alone.

Option B is to simply abolish it, because it's no use having it for use in special cases only. By making it so darn hard for people to actually get the death penalty, it ceases to be a deterrent and merely serves to anger humanitarian groups and 'progressive thinkers' worldwide. Legal capital punishment on a scale destined to make no difference to the justice system serves to introduce only the worst parts of the deal, while cheating yourself out of any benefits. Simple as that.

[IceFire]

I just found a great quote which sums up my point:

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Joseph Stalin

Ah, memories of Red Alert.

"When you kill one... it is a tragedy. When you kill ten million? It is a statistic. THEY CALL ME KILLER... but I live only to serve the people... and the PEOPLE'S HISTORY will judge me." etc.

Can't believe I still remember them speeches from the cutscenes. Kind of sad, you're supposed to remember **** like this from history books. Lulz.

I figure whatever it takes to get people to remember history is a good thing. Even if its alternative history that gets people a tiny bit interested in knowing the real one.  The Stalin quote is quite interesting and very introspective...particularly for someone with his reputation.

Canada outlawed capital punishment and I think its the right course ultimately...mostly because of the possibility of killing someone wrongly accused rather than anything else.  I still wouldn't mind an alligator pit for a few criminal folks who really deserve nothing less.

[Ford Prefect]

I would oppose it even if our system were flawless, because I don't subscribe to the notion of certain crimes that simply warrant the perpetrator's death. I see that as a sign that we've given ourselves a carte blanche to hate with ethical impunity, and we should never allow ourselves to feel comfortable with hatred. I don't care if the person in question abused children or orchestrated a genocide; they should be seen as the ultimate test of our restraint, not as receptacles for all the bile in our souls.