[Snail]

Strategic manuevering =! tactics. Yes they could manuever very nicely, but when it came to the actual engagements they still depended on overwhelming force to win.

There was the ambush at the cargo depot (Pandora's Box), the flanking attempt during the Taranis mission (First Strike), the placing of cargo depot mines in Shell Game... Tell me how any of these (particularly the last one) aren't good tactics.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

The Kayser was reverse engineered from the Shivan Super Laser. Terrans suck.

No, what I meant is that the Kayser surpasses the Shivan weapons it's supposed to be derived from. Except in the field of energy usage.
Oh well, probably game issues again

[Snail]

It was a joke.

[Droid803]

Would you like to fly against Shivans who's primaries surpass Kaysers or are on equal level?
I think not.

Shivans are good at ambushes. Even in FS2 they use that tactic a lot. The Rakshasa destroys the Vigilant (Before a Lion at the Door), the Ravana destroys the Lysander (The Great Hunt 2), The Sathanas destroys the Tatenen (The Fog of War), the Sathanas destroys the Psamtik (Straight, no Chaser). All instances of a ship jumping in and vaporizing something before the GTVA knew what hit them.

Other than that though, the FS2 Shivans win by sending wave after wave after wave after wave of craft at the enemy.

[Woolie Wool]

Would you like to fly against Shivans who's primaries surpass Kaysers or are on equal level?
I think not.

It would be plenty feasible, but you would either need more GTVA ships or fewer Shivans.

[Droid803]

Hmmm...that could be fun

[Snail]

Yeah, I'd like to resurrect that "Shivans are teh eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil" feel of FS1.

[Kosh]

Strategic manuevering =! tactics. Yes they could manuever very nicely, but when it came to the actual engagements they still depended on overwhelming force to win.

There was the ambush at the cargo depot (Pandora's Box), the flanking attempt during the Taranis mission (First Strike), the placing of cargo depot mines in Shell Game... Tell me how any of these (particularly the last one) aren't good tactics.

I never said they weren't good, but in each of those missions you were still grossly outnumbered and had to face wave upon wave of Shivan fighters.

[blowfish]

So ... back on topic ...

[Droid803]

Just change the trails for most of the missiles (hornets, etc). At least they'll look different, which is enough, since anything else would alter balance.

[blowfish]

Creating shivan missile models would not change balance.  Unless it was a bomb, and its size was significantly different than the original.  Even just changing the names would require the cooperation of the Freespace Upgrade Project guys, because the MediaVPs use modified mission files, so if someone were to make shivan bomb table entries and put them in shivan bombers, that whole process would have to be repeated with each MediaVPs release.

[Droid803]

Oh right. Alright, new models. But how ofter do you see a missile's model?
Bombs? yes. Missiles? never.

[Kopachris]

Shivan's really should have their own secondaries (and I don't mean exactly the same damage values, I think they really should be different). After all they have their own primaries suited for their tactics and strategies, why not do the same for secondaries?

Er... the worst weapons in the game are suited for their tactics?

Why are shivan guns so bad?

Just look at their stats. If we used their weapons, we would be pawned over and over again. In fact, the only thing that saves us from destruction is the superior firepower of our fighters.
As for the reason they're bad... I guess they don't need better weapons, since they roll us over anyway.

I'm not sure how to fit the Kayser in though...

Somehow, I seem to have fit everything in my 8472 theory.  The Shivans don't need the superior firepower because their goal is not mindless destruction.

[blowfish]

Oh right. Alright, new models. But how ofter do you see a missile's model?
Bombs? yes. Missiles? never.

That's what I said, but some people claim to be able to see them.

[Droid803]

 
Must have very good eyes, then.
In that case, simple reskins will suffice...I mean, they're missiles...even if you can see them... no need for HTL models on something you're going to either shoot, and watch for the boom, or drop a CM to dodge. 

[Snail]

There are Shivan Bomb models in Inferno R1. I think they're called sbomb1.pof or something similar.

[blowfish]

There are Shivan Bomb models in Inferno R1. I think they're called sbomb1.pof or something similar.

The ones from Inferno look kinda cool (the concept is cool), but, like everything in inferno , they are rather low-quality in terms of model and texture.

[Droid803]

If someone would upgrade them

[Snail]

There are Shivan Bomb models in Inferno R1. I think they're called sbomb1.pof or something similar.

The ones from Inferno look kinda cool (the concept is cool), but, like everything in inferno , they are rather low-quality in terms of model and texture.

THEY WERE MADE BEFORE 2003

[Mars]

Honestly the textures in Inferno were worse than those in Freespace 2 the same way the textures in freespace 2 were worse than the ones in Freespace.

In freespace we had beutifully UV mapped ships like the Fenris. In Freespace 2 it gave way to the Iceni which just had flat textures applied.

In Inferno the textures just don't have the quality (not moderinity, quality) one would hope for.

Hopefully INF:SCP will resolve this.

I vote yes, we should has seperate Shivan bombs that are statistically the same but have different names and models.