[Mawhrin]

The Lucifer fleet came through the Knossos, and then in desperation to stem the tide the Ancients turned off the Gamma Draconis Knossos. So the Lucifer was trapped here, but that didnt matter since the Ancients couldn't touch it anyway. So the Lucifer wipes out the Ancients, and its fleet goes around looking for other guys.

Interesting... but still I would have expected rather more technological change in 8 millennia. According to Wikipedia, which is Completely Reliable ^{[citation needed]}, three thousand years after the Ancient-Shivan war humans invented... the wheel. Hence I suspect that Shivans utterly suck at developing tech, and got their tech from someone else. Possibly this donor race was also a Shivan creator race. The Shivans may still have had enough creativity to shrink beam cannons so they can fit on non-Lucy ships.

some douche bag

An entirely fair description of Bosch, regardless of his intentions.

[Kopachris]

Where'd you get that figure?  The Colossus, which is 12km long, fits 12 Lucies, as said by the cutscene.  The Sathanas is 6km long, about half the size of the Colossus (well, maybe 2/3 the size, if you're actually going by volume).

Wrong.

The Colossus is 6km, as is the Sathanas.

Hm.  Where'd I get 12 from?  I gotta start paying more attention to these things...

[terran_emperor]

Besides, the Lucifer is grossly undersize in that cutscene. See the Trivia/Innacuracies page on the Wiki

[Akalabeth Angel]

Interesting... but still I would have expected rather more technological change in 8 millennia. According to Wikipedia, which is Completely Reliable ^{[citation needed]}, three thousand years after the Ancient-Shivan war humans invented... the wheel. Hence I suspect that Shivans utterly suck at developing tech, and got their tech from someone else. Possibly this donor race was also a Shivan creator race. The Shivans may still have had enough creativity to shrink beam cannons so they can fit on non-Lucy ships.

       Yeah, well you know what Hawking or some other famous guy said about the possibly of contacting alien races. If we ever do find aliens, odds are they're going to be "Apes or Angels". Meaning, far less advanced than us or mind-boggling advanced.
        If the Shivans were angels (or more accurately, demons) there wouldn't be much of a game would there? Having advanced races stagnate is a fairly common thread in popular sci fi as it allows the backwards humans to catch up. So I'd say leave it at:

         "The Shivans are really old and can wipe the floor with us, but because they're not too advanced it's still fun when they're doing it."

[terran_emperor]

On the other hand, they could be toying with us.

I personally believe that the Lucifer's shields are completely impenitrable to anything other that BReds, BFReds and the Semi-Canon Lucifer-Beams (Super Lasers were a cop-out in FS1 in place of actual beam weapon). The only time they are vulnerable is in Subspace. If the Lucifer had been faster, then it would not have been defeated.

Anyway, seeing the Sathanas Fleet in operation and combined with Lucifers, it is painfully obvious that they are capable of wiping the floor with us anytime. They just choose not to.
Sometime the most sadistic thing to do is give someone hope the snatch it from them. So when we finally have hope of victory, thay will do the Genocide dance on us

[Mawhrin]

Yeah, well you know what Hawking or some other famous guy said about the possibly of contacting alien races. If we ever do find aliens, odds are they're going to be "Apes or Angels". Meaning, far less advanced than us or mind-boggling advanced.

Arthur C Clarke

        If the Shivans were angels (or more accurately, demons) there wouldn't be much of a game would there? Having advanced races stagnate is a fairly common thread in popular sci fi as it allows the backwards humans to catch up. So I'd say leave it at:

         "The Shivans are really old and can wipe the floor with us, but because they're not too advanced it's still fun when they're doing it."

I prefer to minimise handwaving. Also, saying Shivans got their tech from somewhere else involves a new race, which itself opens up new plot possibilities.

FS is never going to be very realistic though. Space fighters are a highly dubious element.

Spoiler:

Rickrolled? April 1st? Or is it always like that?

[S-99]

One theory why the lucifer had shields and no other shivan ever did could be that the lucifer was designed as a terror weapon. The lucifer obviously had a different kind of science going into which was sort of worthless. 5 reactors to get the lucifer fully shielded, that's sort of unnecessary since it's just a destroyer and in the fs1 era tv ships wouldn't have been able to stand toe to toe with it anyway because of the lucy's beams. It would have caused just as much terror in fs1 had it not been shielded because it'd be wiping out capships with it's beams anyway. The fact that the lucifer had shielding which was sort of unneeded, it definitely made it even more feared since bombs and primaries couldn't get through it's shields and that is when the lucy gets the heralded "invulnerable" labeling from tv forces. The lucy struck fear and terror more than anything with it's shielding and the relatively few targets it took out (lucy didn't do too much).

And why would a sath need shielding anyway? They're so hard to destroy, it takes a couple of coordinated strikes with a lot of forces to take one down. A collie head to head with a sath...the collie is going to die first (unless of course the collie gets into a more strategic position for taking on the sath). And even still, it takes a long time for the collie to take down a sath than it takes a sath to take down a collie. The collie should stick with eating destroyers by itself, and only take on a sath like a wimp calling for many many others to help in the fight.

This raises another question? Did the collie ever do any orbital bombardments against ntf positions on planets. Probably not, but it could definitely do it lucy style if needed.

[Kopachris]

This raises another question? Did the collie ever do any orbital bombardments against ntf positions on planets. Probably not, but it could definitely do it lucy style if needed.

She'd need some adjustments to the beams she uses against ships, they all have a range of ~4km.  The ISS orbits Earth at around 340km up.  Hmm...  *goes off to make a Planetary Bombardment Beam...*

[Admiral_Stones]

Well, if you take a look at the FS2 Lucifer, you'll see it's originally über beams were replaced with SReds, which may mean they are extremely weak already by the time FS2 comes in.

[Mawhrin]

5 reactors to get the lucifer fully shielded, that's sort of unnecessary since it's just a destroyer and in the fs1 era tv ships wouldn't have been able to stand toe to toe with it anyway because of the lucy's beams.

And why would a sath need shielding anyway? They're so hard to destroy, it takes a couple of coordinated strikes with a lot of forces to take one down.

In both cases, their handful of main beam cannons could be otherwise destroyed by bombers, rendering them tough-to-kill but much less dangerous. Neither have great secondary armament.

Shielding prevents surgical strikes against subsystems. Big win in a fighter-dominated universe like FreeSpace.

Placing shields around vital subsystems and turrets only would be a decent compromise. There's no canon evidence that this is possible. Perhaps a shield cannot have edges, but must fully enclose its subject. But then how do resupply ships dock with shielded fighters?.

EMPs work through fighter shields so presumably they work through the Lucy's too. Spam the Lucy's main guns with EMPs, and run away.

[S-99]

HAHAHA Happy april ****ing fools you ****ers! I was wondering why my post in this thread has mars name on it

[Retsof]

Well, if you take a look at the FS2 Lucifer, you'll see it's originally über beams were replaced with SReds, which may mean they are extremely weak already by the time FS2 comes in.

I don't remember posting that... 

HAHAHA Happy april ****ing fools you ****ers! I was wondering why my post in this thread has mars name on it

Ohhhh... I get it... Jerk...

[Mars]

Hey, I like my name

[Kopachris]

I just thought of another way to do something like this if one were to make a mod, so you can have it impervious to laser/plasma and projectile weapons, but no beam weapons.  Make an addition to the armor table that multiplies laser/plasma and projectile weapons' damage by 0, but leave beams alone.  Can't believe I didn't think of that sooner  ...  This'll be a big part of the GTVJ Judaculla.  Mm, hmm, 4 giant matter/antimatter reactors to power the weapons, new bio-neural computer technology to make the weapons far more accurate, 4 GINORMOUS matter/antimatter reactors to power the engines (top speed of 65 m/s), and a Lucy-style shield generator that's bigger (~1.7x) than the Lucifer herself.  3 huge hangars that together hold 100 wings of 4 ships each, 5x BFRed, 28x BFGreen, more flak and blob turrets than I want to count...  The turrets alone are probably going to take a month, what with school and all .  I'm making the blueprints in the GIMP, making use of the Bank Gothic font .

(And yes, it's going to be a joint effort with the Terrans and Vasudans, this time with a Vasudan CO (Prince Khonsu IV (Khonsu V is the new Vasudan emperor))).

[Admiral_Stones]

Uhm... Faster than most heavy bombers... ok.

[S-99]

  Now it says my post is done by haloboy

Ohhhh... I get it... Jerk...

Back at you. I never enjoyed april fools at all, and this username switch up thing needs to happen.

I just thought of another way to do something like this if one were to make a mod, so you can have it impervious to laser/plasma and projectile weapons, but no beam weapons.  Make an addition to the armor table that multiplies laser/plasma and projectile weapons' damage by 0, but leave beams alone.  Can't believe I didn't think of that sooner  ...  This'll be a big part of the GTVJ Judaculla.  Mm, hmm, 4 giant matter/antimatter reactors to power the weapons, new bio-neural computer technology to make the weapons far more accurate, 4 GINORMOUS matter/antimatter reactors to power the engines (top speed of 65 m/s), and a Lucy-style shield generator that's bigger (~1.7x) than the Lucifer herself.  3 huge hangars that together hold 100 wings of 4 ships each, 5x BFRed, 28x BFGreen, more flak and blob turrets than I want to count...  The turrets alone are probably going to take a month, what with school and all .  I'm making the blueprints in the GIMP, making use of the Bank Gothic font .

(And yes, it's going to be a joint effort with the Terrans and Vasudans, this time with a Vasudan CO (Prince Khonsu IV (Khonsu V is the new Vasudan emperor))).

An april fools juggie? Or a juggie that shouldn't be made. I mean wtf? Too many weapons and too fast. How about you make it as maneuverable as a perseus too.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

He's just kidding... I hope...

[Admiral_Stones]

Will it be 10 km?

[Snail]

No, it's going to be 50km, it has to be bigger than the Gargant.

[Mawhrin]

5x BFRed, 28x BFGreen, more flak and blob turrets than I want to count...

If you're going to make an überjug, you may as well replace the blobs with something more useful, such as morning stars or kaysers. Although if it's immune to bombs anyway, it could only include beams.

Isn't there an engine limit to the number of active turrets?

An april fools juggie?

It's in his sig. Maybe the specs are April Fools.