[lostllama]

I came across this site: http://redfaction.volitionwatch.com/fsfps/. Hasn't been updated since late '01.

The 'featured shots archive' link under the pic of the Vasudan on the right hand side has some concept art for weapons and a new kind of transport ship. Just thought I'd share this find with anyone interested... if it's not already too much old news. 

FreeSpace: Close Quarters was another attempt at an FPS but that one seems to be dead too (link is under External Sites>Game Warden at top of this page).

[Titan]

read this 

though honestly, if you can get it back up and such, i don't think anyone would oppose.

... you know, if you had expierience in modding for it, you can make it so that you would have a couple of maps with the proper sides in BF2. but a stand alone of another game would work better.

[lostllama]

Well I have no experience in modding for any game. I'm not really the person to organise rejuvinating projects (I'm more of a tester, when RL allows me to be). I guess peoples' efforts are more geared towards enhancing FSO.

[Titan]

ya... though i'm pretty interested in FS ground forces and stuff like that too...

[lostllama]

Same here considering the lack of info on them. Are the Red Faction games any good? Personally I'm not really into that kind of genre but I'd definitely take a look at an FS inspired one, especially if you could order squadmates around (like you can in FS).

[Titan]

I'm not allowed to play FPS games unless its like an action-adventure that has a story as opposed to mindless shooting people until your char is up to his eyeballs in blood.

[MP-Ryan]

I'm not allowed to play FPS games unless its like an action-adventure that has a story as opposed to mindless shooting people until your char is up to his eyeballs in blood.

Well, at least you can play the good ones then.

[Thor]

The first Red Faction was a pretty decent game, but kinda bland in the art department.  Geomod was wicked though.  Red Faction 2 was ok, but forgettable.

if one where to approach an FS themed shooter now, a more modern and widespread engine would be needed.  something like source or Unreal 3, that would be around for the length of time it would require to  do it. 

Then there is the story issues...where and when would one set it?

I'm probably best used as a writer around here, and would love to take a crack at writing something like this.  but its not really worth doing if people aren't seriously interested in it.

[lostllama]

Not a lot is given away on that site about the story or the places it takes place on/in, but I get the impression that the modder(s) who were designing it had detailed plans for one. If they could be contacted then that would be something to go on, if nothing else. There're pages on the site with historical info etc that would have fleshed it out a bit.

Edit: I envisage that expectations would be very high considering the FPS's people play now... Especially in terms of graphics and (maybe) realism etc.

[Titan]

zero-G environments are a must.

Maybe a campaign following the attempts to track and kill a traitor, then follow the trail of a prototype thing he stole...

[lostllama]

Zero-G, yeah definitely, not sure how it could be made to work controls-wise though. It should also have the option of allowing the player to be a shivan.  Also would be cool to be able to walk on the outside of a space ship and stuff and take pot-shots at enemy fighters.

Maybe a campaign following the attempts to track and kill a traitor, then follow the trail of a prototype thing he stole...

...Rings a bell.

[Jeff Vader]

Maybe a campaign following the attempts to track and kill a traitor, then follow the trail of a prototype thing he stole...

Creativity FTW.

Zero-G, yeah definitely, not sure how it could be made to work controls-wise though. It should also have the option of allowing the player to be a shivan.

Yeah, maybe a mission where a team of marines attempts to board a Shivan freighter. Ooh, with the player being a Shivan! Oh wait...

[S-99]

Idk how an fs themed fps would work out for us. We'd be essentially making a new complete game with whatever the hell we think is freespacey enough to toss into it. Not that that's a bad thing. But, there's going to be whiners who will arise.
But, it'd be cool. Zero-g, do something cool like hijack a shivan bomber when stowed away on a shivan ship. Taking down a shivan with tons of firepower would be a lot of fun too.

Titan you need to play duke nukem 3d.

[Mawhrin]

I expect the artwork requirements would be overwhelming. Even for an MP only game, the modelling and animation needs are substantial. An SP game would also need much more environment work, which the player will pass through quickly and barely noticing (unless it's crap). I gave some thought to implementing ideas I have for an MP only game, but was scared off by the art I'd need but can't do. I was leaning towards Torque, partly because of its excellent networking, but Sauerbraten may have been good too.

For engine choice, there are I think three main categories:

Mod an existing commercial game. No access to source code, so limited in what can be achieved. Mod only available to those who have the original game. Modable games often have relatively easy to use tools however, sometimes free. XSI Mod Tool is free for modelling for Unreal Engine and Source based mods for example.

Buy a relatively cheap commercial engine licence. Examples, Torque and Lawmaker. Can build a standalone game, often get source code. Tend to be less technologically impressive than AAA-grade engines (duh). Don't necessarily have good tools. Torque improved mapping with the free release of Constructor (which can also be used for other engines), but modelling is either Blender or a commercial package. There are content packs available. Also, costs money. Edit: C4 needs a mention here.

Open source engines. Examples, Sauerbraten (Cube 2), Irrlicht, Yake or Quake 3 (ioquake3). Q3 is old, and others seem to be permanently not-quite-ready. Sauerbraten has in-game, interactive, multi user (!) mapping. Source code access, can distribute to anyone, free. Tools may be an issue.

See the DevMaster engine database. GarageGames has a handy resources directory, and a busy and knowledgeable community forum.

[S-99]

ioquake3 is a capable engine alright. And may even be a good choice. One example to see it really shine is to take a look at the game nexuiz. The q3 engine while old, is still popular and still in use to a good degree. Especially after id released the q3 engine source code. The ioquake3 engine is also superior to the original engine. Bug fixes and upgrades have been issued making it a superior successor to the original q3 engine. After that for seeing how much the engine can be modified take a look at the game nexuiz.

Why not the q3 engine? It worked absolutely great for space themed fps's for what an fs fps would be similar too which is star trek voyager elite force, and star trek elite force 2.

EDIT: If you want another engine that's popular and familiar to people and works great. Go grab duke3d. It's source code got released and has many enhancements as well as level building tools and other stuff. Many are already using the duke3d engine to make their own games.

[Mawhrin]

Nexuiz is based on Darkplaces, a heavily modified Quake 1 based engine. Also note qfusion, based on Quake 2.

ioquake3 is a capable engine alright. And may even be a good choice.

It's possibly the lowest-risk choice. Mature, repeatedly proven, well designed, many experienced people, support from many content creation tools, source code access if something needs to be changed. As community projects easily fail, the risk of project-killing unforeseen problems needs to be minimised, and ioquake3 will fit the bill. It's also free.

For downsides, its renderer is dated (no shaders), and its not great at complex outdoor scenes.

Any decision on engine should be made carefully, and with consideration of the specific needs of the title and the experience of the developers. The plans I was making required large, detailed outdoor areas and a large number of players, which are the strengths of Torque and Sauerbraten, as well as Battlefield. Sauerbraten is an unusual engine, with a working MP game, and well worth a look. Its animation system seems primitive though. Edit: I may be telling heinous lies about Sauer's animation.

EDIT: If you want another engine that's popular and familiar to people and works great. Go grab duke3d.

You mean Build? It's prehistoric, even the "polymost" version. Level editing in 2D is quick and easy, but no one would play the results. Nostalgia value only.

[colecampbell666]

Tweaking - a dev has commited it and is just finishing off little adjustments
Done/Fixed - for when it's completely done

3.6.10
Features:

• new FS2NetD2 code (Taylor)
  
• OpenGL fixes (Taylor)
  
• reworked ships lab (Taylor)
  
• reduced memory footprint (Taylor)
  
• and better multi-format file loading (particularly for music).  (Taylor)
  
• ships.tbl level texture replacement (Skinning) (Taylor)
  
• Enhanced Autopilot (builting cinematics) (Kazan) Tweaking
  
• Fiction Viewer (Goober)
  
• FS1 hud (Goober)
  
• fire-turret (Goober)
  
• invalidate-goal force (Goober)
  
• 'dynamicification' of MAX_PARSE_OBJECTS (Goober)
  
• Shield/weapon energy regen ship specific, measured in %/sec [Rqst: WCS]
  
• $disable linked fire penalty [Rqst: WCS]
  
• Ships.tbl "Flash"-effect flag needs work - brighter, quicker (<.25s duration) [Rqst: WCS]
• more explosion variety [Rqst: WCS]

Bugfixes:

• #1441  Able to target beyond max radar range (Kazan) FIXED
  
• #1315   FRED won't display ship info, such as name and co-ordinates (Goober)
  
• #1242  Mods being validated when they arent supposed to (Kazan)
  
• #1331 Crash on the Nebula color change (Kazan)
  
• #1431 Crash when setting cues in FRED (Kazan)
  
• #1203 Multi player host mission select list not displaying all missions (Kazan)
  
• #1281 After using cutscene sexps to teleport player to a new position warships have no collision detection (Kazan) FIXED[
  

3.6.11
Features:

• Compressed VPs (taylor)
  
• New scripting code (from HEAD) (WMC)
  
• SLDC (Shield Collision Trees) (Kazan)
  
• no collide subobject prop (if nobody else does it by then) (Kazan)
  
• Gravity Points (Goober)
  
• Explosion Time (Goober)
  
• Communications menu customization (Goober)
  
• Comm Taunting + Hostile death messages (me - they would go with the comm customizations) (Goober)
  
• Make alt-command briefing window - textbox at bottom, video window 2x large, video player capable of playing .mve/.ogg [Rqst: WCS]
• surface-shields would emit shield-hit ani [Rqst: WCS]
• taunts - four built-in message lines for taunts (random selection between list via 1 hotkey) - 2 taunts to target = 50% chance it changes target to taunter [Rqst: WCS] (same as what is already listed in roadmap under goober)
• Rework planetary orbits code - be able to specify "too close" distance [Rqst: WCS]

Bugfixes:

Features:
3.7

• Advanced Hazards System (better asteroids, mines, etc)  (Kazan & Goober)
  
• Objects behind other objects become sensor obscured (if occluding object is properly flagged) (required for AHS)
• Region-defined volumetric fogging [via shaders? if via shaders we can get shader soft-shadows too Big grin] (required for AHS) (Kazan)
  
• Draw/don't draw hazard objects based upon distance-to-observer (ie they blend into the fog so don't have to be spent drawing) (required for AHS) (Kazan)
  
• New section in .fs2 format for defining AHS entities (Kazan)
  
• Improved Starfield (adding bitmap stars of various sizes to current AAlines stars, skewing distribution toward galatic plane, and possible toward nebula bitmaps) (Kazan)
  
• OBJ3 http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47751.0.html (Bobboau)
  
• damage decals return (Bobboau)
  
• wxFred  (Goober & Bobboau)
  
• First Person Shooter emulation (Goober)
  
• Custom HUD layouts per fighter [Rqst: WCS]
• Customizable Mainhall - with "doors" to other rooms (ex to mission simulator) [Rqst: WCS]
• HUD Weapon-selection alternative graphics (see 2j http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,39377.0.html) [Rqst: WCS]

Bugfixes:

Unscheduled
Features:

• Merge Imperial Alliance codebase (Goober)
  

Bugfixes:

Last Update: July 30, 2007

[Admiral_Stones]

Whilst Quake 3 is incorporated in many games and free, I think a modern high-end engine like Unity 3D or Torque would be a better choice.

[Mawhrin]

Whilst Quake 3 is incorporated in many games and free, I think a modern high-end engine like Unity 3D or Torque would be a better choice.

Unity3D authoring requires MacOS and it appears Windows deployment requires the Pro version. This probably eliminates it from consideration.

FSO is never going to be as good an FPS engine as one designed for the task.

[lostllama]

Idk how an fs themed fps would work out for us. We'd be essentially making a new complete game with whatever the hell we think is freespacey enough to toss into it. Not that that's a bad thing. But, there's going to be whiners who will arise.

I agree, even if an engine is decided on to develop it with, getting a final consensus of opinion from the community on what designs/artwork etc to incorporate is bound to be difficult.

Maybe the best we could hope for is perhaps a kind of 'demonstration' user-made FreeSpace FPS being produced, just using the environments, models and weapons seen in the FS1 hallfight cutscene (or stuff very close to them as all we have is a cutscene for reference), with no other creative stuff added... kind of like a recreation of the events in the cutscene (not necessarily with the same ending, mind)....... just as a starting point and to see if it's doable. But I guess that even doing something along those lines would take up a lot of people's time.