[DeepSpace9er]

Here is a good idea, since everybody seems to know that we are running out of fuel, why doesnt the government just get rid of all gas taxes? Wouldnt that HELP people by reducing up to .50 off of a gallon of gas?

[ShadowGorrath]

It's because they want cash

[Unknown Target]

Plus

Here is a good idea, since everybody seems to know that we are running out of fuel, why doesnt the government just get rid of all gas taxes? Wouldnt that HELP people by reducing up to .50 off of a gallon of gas?

And once we did that, how could we possibly mitigate our crashing economy and massive debt?

[DeepSpace9er]

Altering taxes is not a static table of 'lost' or 'gained' revenue. Most likely the money will be spent encouraging economic activity which will generate more wealth, decrease cost in transportation of goods thereby lowering overall cost of consumer goods. Just like raising taxes does not equal X amount of dollars. It discourages economic growth and lowers tax revenue in other sectors.

I'll have you know that as a result of the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to take away billions from the overall bottom line resulting in record tax receipts in 2006. Its really not about getting more revenue, its all about control of your money.

[Kosh]

Here is a good idea, since everybody seems to know that we are running out of fuel, why doesnt the government just get rid of all gas taxes? Wouldnt that HELP people by reducing up to .50 off of a gallon of gas?

Because 1.) The federal (and probably state) gas taxes go towards highway and road maintenance respctively. The federal highway trust fund is already expected to be bankrupt within the next 10 years, getting rid of all the gas taxes will make that happen within the next year or so. Once that happens highways start falling into disrepair and America's precious trucking system will no longer be able to deliver goods as effectively as before, if at all. Goodbye 3000 mile ceaser salad.
2.) Also because it does nothing to solve the fundemental problem that era cheap energy for transportation is coming to an end.
It's this kind of short sightedness that got us into this mess in the first place.

I'll have you know that as a result of the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to take away billions from the overall bottom line resulting in record tax receipts in 2006. Its really not about getting more revenue, its all about control of your money.

And we are still waiting for those mythical budget surpluses that were promised. That $9.4+ trillion debt is going to have to be paid back, and it will be in the form of higher taxes.

[DeepSpace9er]

Why higher taxes? Why not.. reduced spending? And dont tell me the war is causing the debt.. there is a 3 trillion dollar budget, in which the highest percentage of it goes towards medicare, social security, and other social programs. About 600 billion goes towards the defense departments annual budget and the war combined.

[Kosh]

The war is part of the debt. Don't let the official number fool you, because of accounting tricks the real costs of the war and the military itself are much higher, more like $1 trillion. Social security has actually kept the official debt down because the trust fund has been raided over and over again in the last 30 years. Touching Medicare and Social Security is political suicide for anyone, don't forget the largest voting block are old people, and in a democracy such a powerful voice cannot be ignored. So neither of those programs are going anywhere.

In any case I never suggested higher taxes, although that may inevitably come given the magnitude of our debt, and also the need to maintain the infrastructure we so often enjoy.


EDIT: And government debt isn't the only debt problem, private debt has also reached unbelievably high numbers. Total debt, both public and private, is somewhere in the vicinity of $44 trillion. With such a leveraged economy it's a wonder we made it this far without our credit system crapping out.

[AlphaOne]

Well i can comment on this since my country is dependant in one form or another to gas imports from Russia. sure it may not be Oil but its and increasing demand for natural resources that has led my country to buy gas at the most high price in europe (well that an poor diplomatic skills) .

However when we look past this we see something else that is happening. And that is increasing development of alternatives to both OIL and natural gasses. Mainly biodiesel and other such alternatives.

One such alternative is nuclear power. And my country has already to my knoledge agreed to some very high spending for our economy for the future development of new reactors at our nuclear powerplant from 2 to 4 nuclear reactors. Also plans are being made for a second nuclear powerplant to be constructed. When all of these are completed they should reduce the overall countrys dependance on fosil fuels and natural gasses.


This is something that is considered a viable alternative towards energy production in many countries rich or poor.

And with the price on oil increasing more and more it is becoming more and more difficult for countries such as mine to keep the prices at a decent lvl.


Hell prices here have rocketed and public debt along with them.

as for reaching the limits of our planet in terms of available land well i don't actualy think that is true since some study showed that you could fit the entire world population on a continent such as North America . Don't know how true is that but one has to wonder .

The bottom line is that our planet is not reaching its limits in most areas its just reaching its limits when considering the way we make use of it. With more proper management and waste managements huge portions of land could be salvaged and reclaimed.

As for the reserve of fossil fuels well they no longer represent the future . In fact more and more country's are investing huge amounts of money in new technologies for both cars and not just cars.

Electric cars have begun to develop at an increasing rate and have become far cheaper then before. The performance of these cars ha also increased in huge leaps. Hell there are some electric cars out there that can outperform a Lambo . The range is not yet as intended but that will change with the development of new tech for the powercells.

The alternatives to fossil fuels just have to become as profitable as fossil fuels and then we will see companies investing more and more into such alternatives. Basic what we have now is a low margin of profit for tehse alternatives and the big companies are not about to loose they huge profits just because our planet is on the brink of ecological colapse or other reasons like that.


Sorry for the spelling.

[Kosh]

One such alternative is nuclear power. And my country has already to my knoledge agreed to some very high spending for our economy for the future development of new reactors at our nuclear powerplant from 2 to 4 nuclear reactors. Also plans are being made for a second nuclear powerplant to be constructed. When all of these are completed they should reduce the overall countrys dependance on fosil fuels and natural gasses.

Nukes are a great alternative to coal, but I'm not going to drive a nuclear powered car.

[S-99]

Want more oil and natural gas? Start bothering AK

[Colonol Dekker]

Nukes are a great alternative to coal, but I'm not going to drive a nuclear powered car.

According to Back To The Future 2, we should have "Mr Fusion" in 7 years or earlier..

[Mefustae]

One such alternative is nuclear power. And my country has already to my knoledge agreed to some very high spending for our economy for the future development of new reactors at our nuclear powerplant from 2 to 4 nuclear reactors. Also plans are being made for a second nuclear powerplant to be constructed. When all of these are completed they should reduce the overall countrys dependance on fosil fuels and natural gasses.

Nukes are a great alternative to coal, but I'm not going to drive a nuclear powered car.

It's nice that someone actually pointed out that rather big flag in nuclear power. Main power production is all well and good, but what about the smaller things?

But then there's the bigger picture we must consider: Nuclear power is all well and good, but it ain't our salvation. Not by a long shot. Consider that nuclear power plants produce 75% as much pollution as a coal-fired plant. Consider the cost in terms of fossil fuel it takes to gather the resources to construct the plant, actually construct it, keep it running, and ultimately decommission it. Consider that these new power sources need fossil fuels to get up and running. It's the same problem with hydrogen. Using hydrogen is all well and good, but there aren't exactly great massive hydrogen deposits sitting underground waiting to be exploited. Fossil fuels are so ingrained into our technology and even our society that we're going to seriously struggle to tone it down, let alone cut it out completely when

It all comes down to our - by which I mean the West - post-industrial consumerist lifestyles. It's kind of nice now, but we're ****ed in a few decades. Like, truly ****ed. Seriously. We're talking nymphomaniac on her wedding night after having just found out she has one week to live ****ed. Live the dream now, because we'll be living a nightmare come 50 years time. And it's we the middle-class that'll be hit hardest.

[Kosh]

Consider that nuclear power plants produce 75% as much pollution as a coal-fired plant

It isn't carbon free, but it spews way less carbon during its lifetime than that. Correct me if I'm wrong but  I think it takes about the same amount of carbon to mine and transport the fuel, and build the plant (ok, maybe nuclear requires slightly more because the structures are heavier, but still). Coal plants need to be decomissioned too, although granted it takes a much longer period of time to decommission a nuke plant.

It's the same problem with hydrogen. Using hydrogen is all well and good, but there aren't exactly great massive hydrogen deposits sitting underground waiting to be exploited.

Well there are enormous amounts of hydrogen in the atmosphere of Jupiter and (maybe) Saturn, but a more practical short term solution is this, and I think it shows some promise.

It all comes down to our - by which I mean the West - post-industrial consumerist lifestyles. It's kind of nice now, but we're ****ed in a few decades. Like, truly ****ed. Seriously. We're talking nymphomaniac on her wedding night after having just found out she has one week to live ****ed. Live the dream now, because we'll be living a nightmare come 50 years time. And it's we the middle-class that'll be hit hardest.

Western europe was smart enough to invest in large scale, world class intra and inter city public transportation, more efficient private transportation, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but in general relatively high density communities. All of these give Europe a significant amount of lead time to deal with it.
America on the other hand invested in the low density suburban communities that are many miles away from the nearest supermarket and even more miles away from your place of employment, as well as private transportation, a trucking system, and large, wasteful vehicles.

So with that in mind, suburban america will by far be more ****ed than anyone else. Personally I think that in the next 20 years the american suburban lifestyle as we know it will be extinct. Kunstler may very well be right when he predicts the suburbs of America will be the dysfunctional slums of the future. 

EDIT: Also something of note: More than half of the American population lives in the suburbs. All of them will be seriously hurt by this. Is this a recipe for disaster or what?

[Colonol Dekker]

Yay us!

[Galemp]

Paolo Soleri had the right idea.

/architect

[Mefustae]

Paolo Soleri had the right idea.

/architect

Yeah, but if we build a lot of them, they'll all blow up in 2051.

[Galemp]

[Mefustae]

I am so glad someone got that reference.

[Galemp]

Are you kidding? Everything I know about urban planning I learned from Will Wright. Like how to build your coal power plants on your borders downwind so your neighbors get all the pollution.

[Kosh]

Arcologies are unamerican