Author Topic: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here  (Read 14736 times)

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Offline CP5670

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
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# Satis - Sporadic holes that allow shots through. Does anyone know exactly where this occurs on the hull?

I just checked this again. There is definitely a hole in the back, around where the engine glow is. I fired several Infyrnos there and they all passed through the ship. There are also smaller holes on the sides. These seem to be more prominent when weapons hit the side at an angle instead of directly facing it.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
I've been using StratComm's fixed Ravana, and it still has a couple of collision errors.

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
The Ravana has a lot of hull area over 7017 polys. I am not going to go through trying to shoot as many of them as I can from as many angles as I can, so I really need to know where specifically to look. :p

Anyway - yep I've confirmed the Serapis and Satis collision holes. As it turns out, only the cockpit and small area at the front of the Serapis are totally solid - everywhere else is horrible.

Fortunately, nothing gets through the shield mesh when it shouldn't, which must be what caused me to mark it as solid. As such I think I'll retest some of the other suspect ships to double check them too.
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Offline asyikarea51

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Stumbled across the thread, and I have a question:

When you guys do troubleshooting for this, what builds do you use? 3.6.9 standard? SVN self-compile? Taylor XT?

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Whatever is handy - the first round of tests was done using one of Taylor's builds, but this one I've just done now was done using Wanderer's turret mod builds. A crappy model will be equally crappy between different builds, so the errors will still be there.

Anyway - I've confirmed the shield mesh bug on the seraphim - but I honestly don't know if we should fix it - does anyone know how that might affect mission balance?

Also, I couldn't find any evidence of a similar hole in the Herc 1 shield mesh.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Also, I couldn't find any evidence of a similar hole in the Herc 1 shield mesh.
Unless you fixed it recently, it's there, it was causing problems in INFA till Woo fixed it. I think the hole is near the top.

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
It's on the side. I could successfuly deal damage onto a Herc with my ML16s by firing them on the left side ( left, looking from the back ).

  

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
I was completely unable to reproduce that. I had a wing of hercs set to play dead while invulnrable, and no shots got through the shields anywhere. I hit it from every direction from as many angles as I could.

Is there anything else I can do to reproduce it?
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
I had a wing of hercs set to play dead while invulnrable, and no shots got through the shields anywhere.
:wtf: Well of course not.  Invulnerable affects the shields too.

Is that what you meant, or do you want to rephrase that? :p

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
According to Snail, Mobius and ShadowGorrath, I'm looking for a hole in the shields - so I sorta need them to not go down from power depletion. :p

There is indeed a hole in the front of the Seraphim, but so far I've not found any trace of the reported Herc hole.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
According to Snail, Mobius and ShadowGorrath, I'm looking for a hole in the shields - so I sorta need them to not go down from power depletion. :p
So then add a .tbm and give them near-infinite shield strength.  You won't find the hole using the invulnerable flag; I can tell you that right now.

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
No that's the idea - I'm looking for places where the shots go through the shield mesh in the way they do on the Seraphim - which I found with the invulnrable flag on. ;)

It's fairly obvious when it happens, and allows you to fairly easily 'map' the shape and size of the hole. What difference to the stability of the shield mesh itself would the tbl modification make?
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Offline blowfish

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
The Ravana has a lot of hull area over 7017 polys. I am not going to go through trying to shoot as many of them as I can from as many angles as I can, so I really need to know where specifically to look. :p

Never mind.  I thought that the front beams had collision detection errors, but this just appears to be a classic example of center-of-submodel-not-actually-being-inside-the-submodel syndrome.  This affected the retail Sathanas too.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
No that's the idea - I'm looking for places where the shots go through the shield mesh in the way they do on the Seraphim - which I found with the invulnrable flag on. ;)

It's fairly obvious when it happens, and allows you to fairly easily 'map' the shape and size of the hole. What difference to the stability of the shield mesh itself would the tbl modification make?
Well, I figured, if you have a shield mesh of near-infinite strength, and a hull of normal strength, it would help with the testing.  You could fire anywhere on the ship, and if it impacted the shield, it would be just as if you had the invulnerable flag on.  However if it went through the (near-infinite strength) shield and hit the hull, you'd know it immediately because the hull would take normal damage.

I'm not sure how you could tell the difference between a shot hitting an invulnerable shield and a shot going through an invulnerable shield but hitting an invulnerable hull.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
I'm not sure how you could tell the difference between a shot hitting an invulnerable shield and a shot going through an invulnerable shield but hitting an invulnerable hull.

If the hull gets hit, sparks and stuff starts flying out, regardless if it is invulnerable.
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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Yeah - basically what Droid said and how I'm close enough to see where the shot terminates. It's pretty clear if anything goes through. :)
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Offline asyikarea51

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Whatever is handy - the first round of tests was done using one of Taylor's builds, but this one I've just done now was done using Wanderer's turret mod builds. A crappy model will be equally crappy between different builds, so the errors will still be there.

Ok. :)

Just that these past few weeks of playing around with the tables, on one or two occasions my shots would just fly though objects (i.e. DESTROYERS, fighters too but hard to tell because the Angel and Ulysses is so small :nervous:) at random occasions on one build, even when the fighting is only of moderate intensity, but still strike home on another build with the same level of action. I'd like to say BOE, but frankly I'm not sure; does 5 to 8 4-ship wings of multiple waves, two cruisers and one destroyer count as BOE? And a lot of gunfire...

Right now the only builds I sort-of trust at the moment are direct compiles from SVN when it comes to mission testing. Maybe someone can clarify things...

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Collision detection as a whole does suffer when there are too many objects flying around in the one mission, so there's no way I can say if what you saw was a collision mesh problem or not. It can't be a problem with the Uly - as that has no HTL model, and the Angel would have been converted with something other than the max exporter so it should be fine too.

Did you see it happen on any particular part of a particular destroyer? That's the sort of info I really need here.
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Offline asyikarea51

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
The CP Angel is a quick transfer from the released INF:A with some lights changes. I may or may not have saved it with PCS2 before. But my concern is not with the models themselves actually, rather the build used.

I have this mission with a fair bit of fighting (it's a mod mission so I can't really put it up here, plus the tables have changed a lot since the mission was made). 59 ships total, 1 is an Orion, 1 Fenris and one Aeolus (all HTL Zeta MVP+patches). Rest are fighters: Amazons, Angels, Apollos, Zeuses, Medusas, again all HTL except for the Amazon and CP Angel.

With the old October XT build (my staple until name-changeable turrets came along), within a few minutes into heavy dogfighting my shots will just miss, and I can even fly though the Orion I'm supposed to defend as though it was a ghost. And I can keep firing at the enemy ships, but somehow my shots don't hit. OTOH the same mission with most any generic build gotten off SVN and compiled with VC2005, I get no such thing, my shots only miss because of the small size of the opponent and the wide positioning of the player ship guns. No shot ghosts through the Orion.

Side note, the mod's capship turrets like THT's do real damage and fire fast, they don't simply shoot 1 lame shot every 3 to 5 seconds, so at any one time there might be many stray shots flying around.

Since you said any build worth using is used (the reasoning is legit anyway), I thought that if only one really stable build was used for testing as opposed to a few or so many different ones, then maybe the results would be more accurate across a wide variety of missions, both calm and intense...???

If what I say isn't worth thinking about then you can safely ignore this long post... or do you guys already do single-mission testing with a suspect model several times, with different builds each time? Something else I missed? :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Ships with faulty collision detection - report errors here
Side note, the mod's capship turrets like THT's do real damage and fire fast, they don't simply shoot 1 lame shot every 3 to 5 seconds, so at any one time there might be many stray shots flying around.

Check for weird TBMs sitting around.  This happened to me, and I realized that I had left TrashMan's Archangel weaponry TBM in my tables folder.