Author Topic: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?  (Read 7677 times)

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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2008, 05:08:07 am »
Besides. In-game, you can fly into a vortex caused by another ship, and nothing happens. I have something else thought out.

Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2008, 05:52:21 am »
So I played some Retail FS2, read trough the Wiki concerning Shivans etc. and the Results/Facts are very clearly.

1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that.
2. The Crab Nebula is about 6000-7000 Lightyears from Sol (In Reality)...don´t know how far away it is in FS2.
3. The Ancients did not make the Shivans, BUT they have been build, not evoluted like Terrans or Vasudans did.
4. Some Informations state that the Shivans are either Insect or Cyborg Lifeforms.
5. The Shivans being controlled by a Hive Mind. So there must be either something like a Queen that controlls the Hive, or someone who builds them and now controlls them.
6. Shivans can´t life in Subspace, because they have Shields. In Subspace Shields are unusefull, so why should a Species living in Subspace, build Shields ?
7. The Shivans are Nomades. At least that part the GTVA meets in FS2, also in FS1.
8. Just because theyr Nomades, doesn´t says theyre in search for theyr Home Universe. They might be Nomades just as a Fact.
9. The Fact that Shivans create a Supernova without doubt, killing Billions of Lifes, interfers with the Solution they want to return to theyr Homes. A Species without Emotions and controlled by a Hive, doesn´t cares about theyr Homes (in my Opinion).
10. The Fact that they are ruthless and kill everything they met, does NOT interfere with the Fact, they creating Supernovas and killing everything inside a Star System. So they are simply bad$%&.

So for me the Solution is easy. There is another Kingdom, maybe a Dominion or something similar. And thoose are afraid of the Terran and Vasudan expansion into Subspace and the whole Galaxy. They send Shivans to simply cut of the Connections to theyr "Dominion" Star Systems.

I also read something in Wiki, that Shivans only act, if other Cultures are fighting each others. I support that Idea. If People are not willing to make Peace by themselfs, the Shivans create the ultimate Peace...in Death...;)

PS: The Ancients, though, might be the Creators of Shivans. And if Terrans extinct the Shivans and something even worth shows up, the Ancients, maybe, might still be around somewhere, evoluted to another Species that is even more horrible then booth, the Ancients and Shivans are.

PS2: Anyone remembers Steven Kings Langoliers or Species 8072 from ST Voyager. Thoose that came to "clean up" the World. Pretty much fits to the Shivan Theme, doesn´t it...;)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 06:15:17 am by Art Kelson »
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2008, 06:15:24 am »
So I played some Retail FS2, read trough the Wiki concerning Shivans etc. and the Results/Facts are very clearly.

1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that.
2. The Crab Nebula is about 6000-7000 Lightyears from Sol (In Reality)...don´t know how far away it is in FS2.
3. The Ancients did not make the Shivans, BUT they have been build, not evoluted like Terrans or Vasudans did.
4. Some Informations state that the Shivans are either Insect or Cyborg Lifeforms.
5. The Shivans being controlled by a Hive Mind. So there must be either something like a Queen that controlls the Hive, or someone who builds them and now controlls them.
6. Shivans can´t life in Subspace, because they have Shields. In Subspace Shields are unusefull, so why should a Species living in Subspace, build Shields ?
7. The Shivans are Nomades. At least that part the GTVA meets in FS2, also in FS1.
8. Just because theyr Nomades, doesn´t says theyre in search for theyr Home Universe. They might be Nomades just as a Fact.
9. The Fact that Shivans create a Supernova without doubt, killing Billions of Lifes, interfers with the Solution they want to return to theyr Homes. A Species without Emotions and controlled by a Hive, doesn´t cares about theyr Homes (in my Opinion).
10. The Fact that they are ruthless and kill everything they met, does NOT interfere with the Fact, they creating Supernovas and killing everything inside a Star System. So they are simply bad$%&.

So for me the Solution is easy. There is another Kingdom, maybe a Dominion or something similar. And thoose are afraid of the Terran and Vasudan expansion into Subspace and the whole Galaxy. They send Shivans to simply cut of the Connections to theyr "Dominion" Star Systems.

I also read something in Wiki, that Shivans only act, if other Cultures are fighting each others. I support that Idea. If People are not willing to make Peace by themselfs, the Shivans create the ultimate Peace...in Death...;)

PS: The Ancients, though, might be the Creators of Shivans. And if Terrans extinct the Shivans and something even worth shows up, the Ancients, maybe, might still be around somewhere, evoluted to another Scpecies that is even more horrible then booth, the Ancients and Shivans are.

PS2: Anyone remembers Steven Kings Langoliers or Species 8072 from ST Voyager. Thoose that came to "clean up" the World. Pretty much fits to the Shivan Theme, doesn´t it...;)

To be honest, I totally disagree with you. Except for the fact that the Shivans act only when there is already conflict. But I disagree with anything else. Won't explain why, as it's people opinions, so everyone can think what they want. But it's NOT what/how I imagine the Shivans are like.

Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2008, 06:20:24 am »
Quote
To be honest, I totally disagree with you. Except for the fact that the Shivans act only when there is already conflict. But I disagree with anything else. Won't explain why, as it's people opinions, so everyone can think what they want. But it's NOT what/how I imagine the Shivans are like.

I didn´t state that as a Fact. It´s just my Opinion of what I read Ingame, the Wiki and other Threads. There´s always room for new Ideas that let me expand my Horizon... ;)
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2008, 06:25:08 am »
I have a totally different idea of the Shivans. I agree more with Flaming_Sword's Shivan mod tech entries. Though not 100%. I'll try to answer about them in a campaign I'll make after the Ancient Shivan War.

Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2008, 06:25:35 am »
The Ancients, though, might be the Creators of Shivans. And if Terrans extinct the Shivans and something even worth shows up, the Ancients, maybe, might still be around somewhere, evoluted to another Species that is even more horrible then booth, the Ancients and Shivans are.
If you asked me, there would have surely been more references to this scenario if it was true. Something like the Ancient narrator in FS1 talking about "our mistake" or something. But no. Instead she seemed to imply that the Shivans merely appeared when the Ancients started traveling via subspace.

Quote from: Art Kelson
Anyone remembers Steven Kings Langoliers or Species 8072 from ST Voyager. Thoose that came to "clean up" the World. Pretty much fits to the Shivan Theme, doesn´t it...;)
Not sure about the Langoliers (I do have a mental image but nothing specific information), but didn't Species 8472 merely have a "The weak shall perish" mentality? They weren't cleansing anything. The Borg went in and bothered them. 8472 got pissed and started pwning everything that they came across, mostly the Borg. Personally, I view the Shivans to be similar to Alastair Reynolds' Inhibitors (see Wikipedia for more info on them).

Quote
To be honest, I totally disagree with you. Except for the fact that the Shivans act only when there is already conflict. But I disagree with anything else. Won't explain why, as it's people opinions, so everyone can think what they want. But it's NOT what/how I imagine the Shivans are like.

I didn´t state that as a Fact
O rly?
So I played some Retail FS2, read trough the Wiki concerning Shivans etc. and the Results/Facts are very clearly.
Oh, I think you did.
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23:40 < EveningTea > ?
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14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
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01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

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Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2008, 06:33:03 am »
Quote
Oh, I think you did.

Yeah whatever...maybe I state that as a Fact for me... ;)
And I want to see you, how you express yourself in German Language... ;)

Another Paradoxon is:

The Shivans have Satanuses to destroy Stars ? So they expecting at a certain Stage, they´ve been cut of theyr Homes and then use/build thoose Ships to return ? Or did they simply build Star Destroyers, to cut off Subspace Connections, or maybe to kill Species ?
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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2008, 09:19:52 am »
So I played some Retail FS2, read trough the Wiki concerning Shivans etc. and the Results/Facts are very clearly.

1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that. Nowhere in the game this is said or even refered to.
2. The Crab Nebula is about 6000-7000 Lightyears from Sol (In Reality)...don´t know how far away it is in FS2. See above.
3. The Ancients did not make the Shivans, BUT they have been build, not evoluted like Terrans or Vasudans did. See above.
4. Some Informations state that the Shivans are either Insect or Cyborg Lifeforms. This info the game does state but against it, although by "experts". The tech room entry on the Shivans state "Other experts caution against attributing insectoid properties to the Shivans, regardless of their appearance and behavior."
5. The Shivans being controlled by a Hive Mind. So there must be either something like a Queen that controlls the Hive, or someone who builds them and now controlls them.The first statement is somewhat false if one wants to nitpick, as it's not a certainty, only the leadind hypothesis :p. And if one wants to use it, then what controls them is a Lucifer like entity, since it's the main evidence for that theory being the leading one in the first place. Again, according to the tech room entry.
6. Shivans can´t life in Subspace, because they have Shields. In Subspace Shields are unusefull, so why should a Species living in Subspace, build Shields ? We can't live in space either, so why have radiation shielding and the like?
7. The Shivans are Nomades. At least that part the GTVA meets in FS2, also in FS1. Again, that statement is somewhat sketchy since the only thing that is refered to ingame is Petrarch stating a "maybe".
8. Just because theyr Nomades, doesn´t says theyre in search for theyr Home Universe. They might be Nomades just as a Fact. See above.
9. The Fact that Shivans create a Supernova without doubt, killing Billions of Lifes, interfers with the Solution they want to return to theyr Homes. A Species without Emotions and controlled by a Hive, doesn´t cares about theyr Homes (in my Opinion). That infers that you understand the shivan psyche which is often met with arguments against your lack of imagination :p.
10. The Fact that they are ruthless and kill everything they met, does NOT interfere with the Fact, they creating Supernovas and killing everything inside a Star System. So they are simply bad$%&.I'm not sure what your point is in this last one, but just to reply to all of them I say, sure! They are this universe's deus ex machinas.

(snip)

So in general, I advise you to not look at the wiki or other related non-ingame sources as canon and only as a suggestion. :p
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Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2008, 09:58:52 am »
Quote
So in general, I advise you to not look at the wiki or other related non-ingame sources as canon and only as a suggestion.

If I don´t make my own Imaginations/Suggestions, that could say I don´t care about the Story. But I do. I want to know where they came from, why they create Supernovas and which kind of Life they are.

Quote
1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that. Nowhere in the game this is said or even refered to.

Ingame someone talked about Crab Nebula and suggests it to be, that "Nebula"...don´t know if this Sentence is on english Version FS2.

Quote
2. The Crab Nebula is about 6000-7000 Lightyears from Sol (In Reality)...don´t know how far away it is in FS2. See above.

I thought if the Crab Nebula is 6000-7000 from Sol in Reality, it might also be ingame.

Quote
3. The Ancients did not make the Shivans, BUT they have been build, not evoluted like Terrans or Vasudans did. See above.

Common Sense. If the Canon inside Wiki and the Game says they might be Cyborg beings, they maybe are. And Cyborgs don´t evolute.

Quote
4. Some Informations state that the Shivans are either Insect or Cyborg Lifeforms. This info the game does state but against it, although by "experts". The tech room entry on the Shivans state "Other experts caution against attributing insectoid properties to the Shivans, regardless of their appearance and behavior."

They are only Insects inside my Universe... :D
But I actually really believe, they are Cyborg Beings. They looked like Cyborg beings as they crawl trough that Tunnel.

Quote
5. The Shivans being controlled by a Hive Mind. So there must be either something like a Queen that controlls the Hive, or someone who builds them and now controlls them.The first statement is somewhat false if one wants to nitpick, as it's not a certainty, only the leadind hypothesis . And if one wants to use it, then what controls them is a Lucifer like entity, since it's the main evidence for that theory being the leading one in the first place. Again, according to the tech room entry.

Ok, it doesn´t have to be Insect Lifeforms, to life in a Hive. But maybe something else, that also apllies this "Hive-Sysem". You mean like a single Entity that controls all the Shivans ? So this Entity must be alive or some sort of intelligent Lifeform, right ?

Quote
6. Shivans can´t life in Subspace, because they have Shields. In Subspace Shields are unusefull, so why should a Species living in Subspace, build Shields ? We can't live in space either, so why have radiation shielding and the like?

Because I doubt that there are Planets inside Subspace. If Subspace is fluitic and is like it´s statet ingame, nothing static should exist inside of it. Or short said, Live can´t exist in Subspace (I think).

Quote
7. The Shivans are Nomades. At least that part the GTVA meets in FS2, also in FS1. Again, that statement is somewhat sketchy since the only thing that is refered to ingame is Petrarch stating a "maybe".

Yeah, that was just suggestion. When the Colossus entered the Nebula, there was no Sign of any habitable Planet + the System got destroyed by a Supernova, right ? It also seems that Shivans don´t relate to Planets or similar Things to life on, right ? (at least I didn´t saw ingame that theres a Shivan Home Planet or System). So i´m pretty sure they are just Voyagers cruising through the Vaccuum, until they been send to "clean" the Galaxy once again.

Quote
9. The Fact that Shivans create a Supernova without doubt, killing Billions of Lifes, interfers with the Solution they want to return to theyr Homes. A Species without Emotions and controlled by a Hive, doesn´t cares about theyr Homes (in my Opinion). That infers that you understand the shivan psyche which is often met with arguments against your lack of imagination .

Rofl. No, it´s just common Sense. I don´t expect the Shivans to be overemotional and as sayed before, I think they´re being controlled. So do Zombies care about theyr Homes ? Do Borgs care about theyr Homes ? Do Shivans care about theyr Homes, if they actually don´t have any Home (in my Opinion) ?

Quote
10. The Fact that they are ruthless and kill everything they met, does NOT interfere with the Fact, they creating Supernovas and killing everything inside a Star System. So they are simply bad$%&.I'm not sure what your point is in this last one, but just to reply to all of them I say, sure! They are this universe's deus ex machinas.

I simply wanted to say, that they act more like Killers, then like Lifeforms searching for theyr Homes...

« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 10:02:31 am by Art Kelson »
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Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2008, 10:20:44 am »
When the Colossus entered the Nebula,
When did the Colossus enter the nebula?
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

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11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
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11:51 < Kobrar> ...
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Offline karajorma

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2008, 11:06:59 am »
Quote
1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that. Nowhere in the game this is said or even refered to.

Ingame someone talked about Crab Nebula and suggests it to be, that "Nebula"...don´t know if this Sentence is on english Version FS2.

Nope. They didn't. And to double check I just grepped the whole set of FS2 missions and tables for the word crab and turned up nothing.
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Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2008, 12:35:19 pm »
Quote
When did the Colossus enter the nebula?

Doh, my Failure. The Colossus was the one dealing the critical blow to NTF in Polaris. So the Ship entering the Nebula was the Aquieten ? Or was it the Nike ?...meh, I just forget, who cares about Names anyways...  :hopping:

Actually, i ment that Ship entering the Nebula, not the Colossus. There it says the Nebula is about 10-20 Lightyears of Size and a Supernova might have created it. So 1+1 = when a Supernova occurs, no Planet will survive this = theres no Planet around the Nebula... :D

Quote
Nope. They didn't. And to double check I just grepped the whole set of FS2 missions and tables for the word crab and turned up nothing.

To be honest, I don´t know where I catched up that Sentence. But it´s coming from somewhere...i´m sure of that... :D
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2008, 12:48:46 pm »
The final blow to the NTF was dealt by the Colossus at Gamma Draconis, near the portal. And lots of GTVA ships went into the nebula. But the player was on the Aquitaine.

Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2008, 12:57:21 pm »
Yeah, i rushed through the Game, to get the Informations. So i might have forget some smaller Things. But basically I think you understand what i´m trying to express.

Isn´t there a Freespace Developer somewhere around. We need enlightment... :D
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Offline Snail

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2008, 02:45:50 pm »
The final blow to the NTF was dealt by the Colossus at Gamma Draconis, near the portal. And lots of GTVA ships went into the nebula. But the player was on the Aquitaine.
Actually, during the second nebular campaign, Alpha 1 was stationed on the Spamtik.

Offline Ghostavo

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #75 on: June 04, 2008, 02:59:30 pm »
Quote
So in general, I advise you to not look at the wiki or other related non-ingame sources as canon and only as a suggestion.

If I don´t make my own Imaginations/Suggestions, that could say I don´t care about the Story. But I do. I want to know where they came from, why they create Supernovas and which kind of Life they are.

Quote
1. It is the Crab Nebula. History Section clearly states that. Nowhere in the game this is said or even refered to.

Ingame someone talked about Crab Nebula and suggests it to be, that "Nebula"...don´t know if this Sentence is on english Version FS2.

Quote
2. The Crab Nebula is about 6000-7000 Lightyears from Sol (In Reality)...don´t know how far away it is in FS2. See above.

I thought if the Crab Nebula is 6000-7000 from Sol in Reality, it might also be ingame.

Quote
3. The Ancients did not make the Shivans, BUT they have been build, not evoluted like Terrans or Vasudans did. See above.

Common Sense. If the Canon inside Wiki and the Game says they might be Cyborg beings, they maybe are. And Cyborgs don´t evolute.

Quote
4. Some Informations state that the Shivans are either Insect or Cyborg Lifeforms. This info the game does state but against it, although by "experts". The tech room entry on the Shivans state "Other experts caution against attributing insectoid properties to the Shivans, regardless of their appearance and behavior."

They are only Insects inside my Universe... :D
But I actually really believe, they are Cyborg Beings. They looked like Cyborg beings as they crawl trough that Tunnel.

Quote
5. The Shivans being controlled by a Hive Mind. So there must be either something like a Queen that controlls the Hive, or someone who builds them and now controlls them.The first statement is somewhat false if one wants to nitpick, as it's not a certainty, only the leadind hypothesis . And if one wants to use it, then what controls them is a Lucifer like entity, since it's the main evidence for that theory being the leading one in the first place. Again, according to the tech room entry.

Ok, it doesn´t have to be Insect Lifeforms, to life in a Hive. But maybe something else, that also apllies this "Hive-Sysem". You mean like a single Entity that controls all the Shivans ? So this Entity must be alive or some sort of intelligent Lifeform, right ?

Quote
6. Shivans can´t life in Subspace, because they have Shields. In Subspace Shields are unusefull, so why should a Species living in Subspace, build Shields ? We can't live in space either, so why have radiation shielding and the like?

Because I doubt that there are Planets inside Subspace. If Subspace is fluitic and is like it´s statet ingame, nothing static should exist inside of it. Or short said, Live can´t exist in Subspace (I think).

Quote
7. The Shivans are Nomades. At least that part the GTVA meets in FS2, also in FS1. Again, that statement is somewhat sketchy since the only thing that is refered to ingame is Petrarch stating a "maybe".

Yeah, that was just suggestion. When the Colossus entered the Nebula, there was no Sign of any habitable Planet + the System got destroyed by a Supernova, right ? It also seems that Shivans don´t relate to Planets or similar Things to life on, right ? (at least I didn´t saw ingame that theres a Shivan Home Planet or System). So i´m pretty sure they are just Voyagers cruising through the Vaccuum, until they been send to "clean" the Galaxy once again.

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9. The Fact that Shivans create a Supernova without doubt, killing Billions of Lifes, interfers with the Solution they want to return to theyr Homes. A Species without Emotions and controlled by a Hive, doesn´t cares about theyr Homes (in my Opinion). That infers that you understand the shivan psyche which is often met with arguments against your lack of imagination .

Rofl. No, it´s just common Sense. I don´t expect the Shivans to be overemotional and as sayed before, I think they´re being controlled. So do Zombies care about theyr Homes ? Do Borgs care about theyr Homes ? Do Shivans care about theyr Homes, if they actually don´t have any Home (in my Opinion) ?

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10. The Fact that they are ruthless and kill everything they met, does NOT interfere with the Fact, they creating Supernovas and killing everything inside a Star System. So they are simply bad$%&.I'm not sure what your point is in this last one, but just to reply to all of them I say, sure! They are this universe's deus ex machinas.

I simply wanted to say, that they act more like Killers, then like Lifeforms searching for theyr Homes...



1. There is no reference anywhere about the Crab Nebula ingame. In fact there is no reference whatsoever to what nebula it might be.
2. I mearly wanted to state that since it's unknown it's the Crab Nebula, it's distance could be anything and it still wouldn't be related to the conversation.
3. They might be cybernetic beings. The might makes all the diference as they also might not be. In which case they can evolve freely. And cybernetic organisms can evolve. Granted it's easier to demonstrate with entirely organic living beings, but the point remains, nothing stops them from evolving.
4. Erm... sure.
5. I think the Hive theory if real, would mean that there are multiple Hive minds throughout the Shivan forces. Since the Lucifer is supposed to be one of them, and the rest of the fleet in FS2 seems pretty organised. So no single entity controlling the entire Shivan forces.
6. Life as we know it can't exist inside subspace. The Shivans are so alien compared to the Terrans or Vasudans, they could be Budda incarnate and it still wouldn't surprise me. Also, we aren't given enough information about subspace to know what exactly it is.
7. They also have non-moving objects which tend to discorage assigning them the label of "wanderes" or "nomads". See the Shivan Comm Node for example.
9. You are arguing about the motives and reasoning of the Shivans, which we know nothing about. We don't know why they destroyed the Capella star, we don't know why they attacked the GTA and the PVN, we don't know why they attacked the GTVA, etc... To reach a conclusion so specific as to say they don't have emotions or they don't want to go home is like I said, lack of imagination.
10. See answer to 9 above.
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Offline Art Kelson

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2008, 03:59:01 pm »
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1. There is no reference anywhere about the Crab Nebula ingame. In fact there is no reference whatsoever to what nebula it might be.
2. I mearly wanted to state that since it's unknown it's the Crab Nebula, it's distance could be anything and it still wouldn't be related to the conversation.

OK, accepted. It might be the Crab Nebula...but i´m pretty sure it is... :D
And yes, basically i think Volition Team has been influenced by the same Informations about Space we share today. Like Theory about Wormholes, Subspace and Space Travelling at all.
There wouldn´t be so many suggestions about it, if no one really believes in this "Theory".

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3. They might be cybernetic beings. The might makes all the diference as they also might not be. In which case they can evolve freely. And cybernetic organisms can evolve. Granted it's easier to demonstrate with entirely organic living beings, but the point remains, nothing stops them from evolving.
4. Erm... sure.

So do they look like Cyborgs or not ? I´d say, yes they do. If they wouldn´t look like Cyborgs, then GTVA Scientists would not have suggestet it...i think.

And I think Cyborgs can´t evolve. BUT  they can be evolved...by theyr Creators.

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5. I think the Hive theory if real, would mean that there are multiple Hive minds throughout the Shivan forces. Since the Lucifer is supposed to be one of them, and the rest of the fleet in FS2 seems pretty organised. So no single entity controlling the entire Shivan forces.

Yeah, that´s basically Ok for me. Either a single "Controller", or multiple controlling Entitys...wouldn´t be that much of a Difference, for me. But doesn´t makes that Lucifers partial intelligent ?...that says if the Lucifers are not controlled by someone else ?

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6. Life as we know it can't exist inside subspace. The Shivans are so alien compared to the Terrans or Vasudans, they could be Budda incarnate and it still wouldn't surprise me. Also, we aren't given enough information about subspace to know what exactly it is.

I think we stripped it down to the Base here. Life can´t exist in Subspace. So if the Shivans are either Carbon based or Ethernal Lifeforms (which have to put theyr Body into that Suit, that let´s them look like Cyborgs), they booth couldn´t exist in Subspace. That says, maybe the Shivans are a "fluitic" Race, that needs thoose Suits to life in normal Space...but if so, why do they act so instinctive and ruthless ? It can be either only because they are afraid, or they are really Bad%&%&& without Emotions. I basically can accept the "Shivans life in Subspace" Theory...but i prefer the one they don´t.

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7. They also have non-moving objects which tend to discorage assigning them the label of "wanderes" or "nomads". See the Shivan Comm Node for example.

Yeah, but theese are only Communication Nodes. There´s nothing else that proofs they settled somewhere else. So again, i´m more comfortable with the "Nomade" Theory.

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You are arguing about the motives and reasoning of the Shivans, which we know nothing about.

No, it´s just what i have in my Mind. As I said, they really don´t feel like being over emotional...that´s all.

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To reach a conclusion so specific as to say they don't have emotions or they don't want to go home is like I said, lack of imagination.

I would name it different Imagination...but that´s just me... :p





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Offline Ghostavo

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2008, 04:25:33 pm »
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3. They might be cybernetic beings. The might makes all the diference as they also might not be. In which case they can evolve freely. And cybernetic organisms can evolve. Granted it's easier to demonstrate with entirely organic living beings, but the point remains, nothing stops them from evolving.
4. Erm... sure.

So do they look like Cyborgs or not ? I´d say, yes they do. If they wouldn´t look like Cyborgs, then GTVA Scientists would not have suggestet it...i think.

And I think Cyborgs can´t evolve. BUT  they can be evolved...by theyr Creators.

And you don't think it's strange that despite the possibility that they might be cybernetic lifeforms, the GTVA scientists haven't made up their mind?

Cyborgs can evolve. Their biological part can continue to evolve while their mechanical part can either stay constant or even evolve on it's on if it's advanced enough. Hell, the concept of evolution has been applied to machines (albeit their designs) today, so I'd say an alien species can do it.

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5. I think the Hive theory if real, would mean that there are multiple Hive minds throughout the Shivan forces. Since the Lucifer is supposed to be one of them, and the rest of the fleet in FS2 seems pretty organised. So no single entity controlling the entire Shivan forces.

Yeah, that´s basically Ok for me. Either a single "Controller", or multiple controlling Entitys...wouldn´t be that much of a Difference, for me. But doesn´t makes that Lucifers partial intelligent ?...that says if the Lucifers are not controlled by someone else ?

The Lucifer can be controlled by someone else, but the point is, we don't know.

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6. Life as we know it can't exist inside subspace. The Shivans are so alien compared to the Terrans or Vasudans, they could be Budda incarnate and it still wouldn't surprise me. Also, we aren't given enough information about subspace to know what exactly it is.

I think we stripped it down to the Base here. Life can´t exist in Subspace. So if the Shivans are either Carbon based or Ethernal Lifeforms (which have to put theyr Body into that Suit, that let´s them look like Cyborgs), they booth couldn´t exist in Subspace. That says, maybe the Shivans are a "fluitic" Race, that needs thoose Suits to life in normal Space...but if so, why do they act so instinctive and ruthless ? It can be either only because they are afraid, or they are really Bad%&%&& without Emotions. I basically can accept the "Shivans life in Subspace" Theory...but i prefer the one they don´t.

Note that I've said life as we know it, and we do not know the Shivans. And we don't know enough about subspace to know what can or can't exist there and we don't know enough about the shivans to know... well... almost anything related to them. As to why they do what they do, like anything related to them, it's a mistery.

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7. They also have non-moving objects which tend to discorage assigning them the label of "wanderes" or "nomads". See the Shivan Comm Node for example.

Yeah, but theese are only Communication Nodes. There´s nothing else that proofs they settled somewhere else. So again, i´m more comfortable with the "Nomade" Theory.

Why would they need immobile communication nodes then? The fact that we don't know anything beyond the system beyond the second knossos limits our knowledge of what "lifestyle" they lead.

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You are arguing about the motives and reasoning of the Shivans, which we know nothing about.

No, it´s just what i have in my Mind. As I said, they really don´t feel like being over emotional...that´s all.

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To reach a conclusion so specific as to say they don't have emotions or they don't want to go home is like I said, lack of imagination.

I would name it different Imagination...but that´s just me... :p

You started your post which led to these replies by stating those were facts...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 04:28:56 pm by Ghostavo »
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Offline S-99

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2008, 08:59:20 pm »
WHAT IF...

The Ancients were fleeing the system and at the last minute, opened a subspace opening back to Gamma Draconis just as the supernova shockwave hit it. The power of the shockwave would be a LOT more than a bunch of Meson Bombs and would shut the wormhole down.

Then the Ancients made the Knossos to restabilize the node...

Well, one hole is, why would the Ancients fight the Shivans again?

And, another is, the shockwave of the Supernova would have destroyed a Knossos.

So, the Ancients must have looked for the Shivans again. A damned stupid thing to do, imo.

Sure that could have happened if the opening to the node was open when ships were escaping when the supernova is blasting by. Not all nodes are super stable though. The tech room says that some last for a long time while some others are more intermittent. Another thing is that the ancients could have put the knossos there before they met the shivans. It really seems like the ancients were restabalizing a node that wasn't that stable to begin with.

The last thing is that the ancients did not create the shivans. The ancients encountered them.
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Offline foolfromhell

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Re: How far away is the Fs2 nebula?
« Reply #79 on: June 04, 2008, 09:49:28 pm »
WHAT IF...

The Ancients were fleeing the system and at the last minute, opened a subspace opening back to Gamma Draconis just as the supernova shockwave hit it. The power of the shockwave would be a LOT more than a bunch of Meson Bombs and would shut the wormhole down.

Then the Ancients made the Knossos to restabilize the node...

Well, one hole is, why would the Ancients fight the Shivans again?

And, another is, the shockwave of the Supernova would have destroyed a Knossos.

So, the Ancients must have looked for the Shivans again. A damned stupid thing to do, imo.

Sure that could have happened if the opening to the node was open when ships were escaping when the supernova is blasting by. Not all nodes are super stable though. The tech room says that some last for a long time while some others are more intermittent. Another thing is that the ancients could have put the knossos there before they met the shivans. It really seems like the ancients were restabalizing a node that wasn't that stable to begin with.

The last thing is that the ancients did not create the shivans. The ancients encountered them.

But the second Knossos device is in the nebula, which means a supernova would have destroyed it. Since it didnt, we must assume the knossos was built after the supernova.

And, the subspace nodes would indeed be open. Like in Capella, hundreds (if not thousands) of ships would be fleeing. They would be opening node after node.
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