[NGTM-1R]

G-Gundam is not amusing. It is bat**** insane laughter because the alternative is smashing your viewing device. There is no middle ground.

[Mongoose]

There comes a point at which parody is no longer seperable from what it is attempting to mock. Not only is it well past that point, it's gotten beyond becoming a parody of a parody of a parody and there's just nothing left. Irreverence has become outright stupidity. I'm not saying it wouldn't work about anything. I'm saying it's so incredibly goddamn silly I can no longer stomache the sight of it. It's like watching Jackass or something: you're informed this is supposed to be funny, but there's no comedic genius here, just a barrage of progressively more stupid and silly things.

I'd disagree somewhat that there was ever any real parody involved in Gurren-Lagann, beyond the inherent sense of irreverence and fun that pervades the genre it represents.  Rather, it's Gainax gathering its best and brightest together to pay homage to a genre that has seen a sad paucity of titles over the past decade or so.  It's a throwback to the days when men were men, robots were robots, and it was all about bringing the biggest, most absurd weapons to bear on your opponents.  There's a reason why so many people use the term "epic" to refer to the series; every episode trumps the last in what it brings to the table, and the show continues to build in intensity and scale until it reaches a ridiculously awesome climax.  It's essentially one long song of praise to the glory of giant robots and huge explosions...which is precisely why I find it so utterly entertaining.

If you're really completely dead-set in some semblance of realism in what you're watching, then I suppose that you're not going to get anything out of the series.  But if that's the case, I'm curious as to at what point you murdered your inner 12-year-old.

[NGTM-1R]

I never murdered him. Gurren Lagann did.

But more seriously, there was a point where it was just...predictable? Pointless? I'm not sure I have the correct word here. (Not to mention that they horribly brutally subvert everything in the last five minutes.) Continously increasing awesome at some point becomes yawn-inducing. The original Gundam began as awesome because it was so much more badass than anything thrown at it, but it continued as awesome not because it was still supah bettah but because it was defeating progressively greater and greater challenges, eventually well beyond its own level of badass. Gurren Lagann took the opposite route and that just doesn't resonate the same way.

[Mongoose]

I think "yawn-inducing" is just about the last phrase I'd use to describe what the series did.  Seriously, those last few episodes made me feel something akin to shooting up pure adrenaline.  It's just this raw, pervading sense of pure masculinity and fighting spirit that keeps building and building, and as it does, it manifests itself in the physical world of the show.  More than anything else, more than the exponentially-growing scales of battle, it was that central message of the show, that "fight da powah," that resonated with me.  Just a simplistic, overwhelming belief that even the impossible can be accomplished if you throw yourself at it with enough resolve.  Whenever things looked their darkest, there was Kamina, with that single-minded resolve of kicking ass and taking names.  I'd give up all the pretentiousness in every show I've watched (and I've watched and loved quite a few pretentious shows) to recapture that sort of spirit more often.

*is still rather happily Gundam-free, though I suppose that will change when Sci-Fi gets around to airing 00*

[TrashMan]

There comes a point at which parody is no longer seperable from what it is attempting to mock. Not only is it well past that point, it's gotten beyond becoming a parody of a parody of a parody and there's just nothing left. Irreverence has become outright stupidity. I'm not saying it wouldn't work about anything. I'm saying it's so incredibly goddamn silly I can no longer stomache the sight of it. It's like watching Jackass or something: you're informed this is supposed to be funny, but there's no comedic genius here, just a barrage of progressively more stupid and silly things.

God knows there are other settings that can be equally irreverent with reality. (40k comes to mind. Oh, don't look at me like that, you know it's true.) But they're not nearly so outright silly. If you want an amusing comedy take on mecha in space, I recommend Nadesico.

You mean the So bad is super-Bad trope? Where the sheer badness makes a full circle and goes past good to be back at the bad?

On a side-note, I have been watching a bit more of the show yesterday. My thoughts remain the same. Not funny.
You know what I did find funny? Star Trek: TOS..honestly, I watch it as a comedy.


EDIT: Fellas, fellas.. Let's just agree to disagree and move on. This isn't a topic about Gurren Lagann, now is it?
IT's about holywood making moives out of animes...so...comments on that please..

[BloodEagle]

*is still rather happily Gundam-free, though I suppose that will change when Sci-Fi gets around to airing 00*

I couldn't get past the first ten episodes of that. And I watched all of Gundam Seed*.

*Feel free to pity me and my wasted time, now.

In all seriousness (if that isn't a word, it should be), Gundam Wing and Gundam 08th (not the last episode) were the only Gundams that I truly enjoyed.

I can't voice an opinion on Mobile Suit Gundam, because I couldn't watch it all when it first aired over here, and I can't find the damned series anywhere.

[Stormkeeper]

I actually like Gundam 00, tbh ... And I'm watching 00 Second Season now.

Seed was much better than Destiny, imo. Destiny was good up until they brought back Kira.

I can't voice an opinion on Mobile Suit Gundam, because I couldn't watch it all when it first aired over here, and I can't find the damned series anywhere.

Well, major cd/music shops might, just might have them. Search around. If you're lucky, you'll find those large boxes, tho they're usually some sort of collector's edition.

[TrashMan]

I watched a bit more of Gurren Lagann and  I might be changing my opinion. That category typo may as well not have been, as I'm now seriously contemplating to put it in the "crap" category.
Nothing fun in there. There are shows that try to be serious and end up being funny because of that.
That are shows that try to be funny and succeed.
Then there are are show that are trying too much and failing on every front.

And to anyone who'd like to say "you just don't get it, <insert psychological or sociological bulls**** here>, let me remind them that proponents of modern art use the same arguments and they haven't swayed me. Crap is crap, regardless how nicely you try to wrap it up, and that is my honest opinnion on Gurren Lagann.

Now that we established that, lets move on to what this friggin topic was really about - the holywodisation of mentioned animes. So let's try NOT to discuss those that aren't mentioned.

[Mongoose]

Funny how you get to have the last word on the previous topic. But very well.  If you're willing to call Gurren-Lagann "crap" with a straight face, then I'm perfectly willing to ignore your opinion on anything else in the future.  Nothing personal, though.

(Oh, and by the way, there's nothing to "get"...unless you are having trouble comprehending the term "awesome.")

So...yeah.  Movies.

[Stormkeeper]

I think Hollywood is running out of creative material, so they're just mutliating ... uh ... adapting ... anime to movies.

I do agree that RoboTech is possible, seeing as how BattleTech actually got sued by RoboTech before, way way back, for copying various designs.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I think Hollywood is running out of creative material, so they're just mutliating ... uh ... adapting ... anime to movies.

I do agree that RoboTech is possible, seeing as how BattleTech actually got sued by RoboTech before, way way back, for copying various designs.

         I'm not exactly sure how Harmony Gold suing Fasa makes a movie "possible". Not that of course, you have the full story. For one I think the lawsuit was actually in retaliation for Fasa suing Harmony Gold for ripping off the Timber Wolf with one of their toys.

Is that the only way North America is expected to ever experience this stuff? Stuffed into through some hollywood filter and spoonfed to the public because they themselves are too stupid to watch a cartoon because "cartoons are for kids?" It maybe wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that probably everything coming out is going to be redone to suit american audiences, like Akira set in New York *gag* instead of Tokyo. Because Americans, quite honesty, have the complete inability to tell a story about anyone but themselves when it comes to movies (a generalization to be sure, but true in so many examples).

Is that the only way anyone not American on the internet is expected to ever think of Americans? Stuffed into through some random impulse-posts on obscure internet forums because they themselves are too stupid to not try to make insulting generalizations?  It maybe wouldn't bother me if not for the fact that probably everything coming out is going to be insulting to everyone who isn't the way they described, like the time every single American is called idiot an because 20% of the US voted for Bush *gag* instead of Kerry. Because these people who make these posts on the internet, quite honesty, have the complete inability to realize that what they're saying doesn't actually accurately represent all Americans and is insulting to some of them (a generalization to be sure, but true in so many examples).

       Of course it doesn't represent all Americans, are ALL americans involved in movie making? In Hollywood? Maybe what I should have said instead was "American movie makers" rather than just americans. And of course, American distributors generally limit or simply don't distribute most foreign movies and even when they are distributed, a lot of people don't bother watching them. I don't know about anyone else, but a person doesn't have to be white and speaking english for me to relate to them. Of course as Bobbau said a lot of anime are Japan-centric like Neo Tokyo and such things; the premise that Americans show more of their own history than any other nation could be a fallacy in itself since there are a lot of movies which focus on other countries.
       And big props to Clint Eastwood, and his movie Letters from Iwo Jima I watched a few days ago. It's a far cry from the usual World war 2 re-writes of history (U-571) or other war movies which basically do disservice to all of their allies (Saving Private Ryan).


       And as for US elections, the idiots aren't the 20% of people who voted for bush, it was the 50% of people who didn't vote for anyone (like the 40% of canadians who didn't vote for anyone last week). Though I tend to watch a minimum of US election coverage, since some of the stuff being said on American televisions channels is completely crazy (like deriding Obama because his middle name is Hussein, or some guy on Larry King calling Obama a Marxist. Or even post debate analysis where the commentators analyze every gesture and facial expression of McCain). But whatever, different topic. Wrong thread.

[BloodEagle]

       And as for US elections, the idiots aren't the 20% of people who voted for bush, it was the 50% of people who didn't vote for anyone (like the 40% of canadians who didn't vote for anyone last week).

Yep, its the wrong thread.

PSA - Why You Shouldn't Vote.

If you go to an office party, there are certain things you shouldn't talk about. Three of them, really: Sex, Politics, and Religion. The reason is simple. You're supposed to act professional. That means not offending people, and everyone knows that there's no better opportunity to cheese someone off than by voicing a strong opinion on one of the big three.

The same thing is doubly true if you're any sort of public figure. Smart public figures never stray into these dark waters because they know it's the PR equivalent of shutting your dick in a car door. Not only will the result almost always be awkward, embarrassing, and painful, but people will talk about it for years afterward. You'll never live it down.

For example, let's say you read my book and you like it. So you want to like me. But then you read on my blog that I eat my bread with the butter-side-down. Then you're horrified, because you're a staunch proponent of butter-side-up. So you swear off reading my books forever, convince your friends to do likewise, and as a result, I eventually end up naked in a ditch somewhere, penniless and dead of scurvy.

I've finally come to grips with the fact that I'm a bit of a public figure, though the thought makes me somewhat uncomfortable. But I'll be damned if I'll ever be smart about it. I don't like the thought of going through the rest of my life biting my tongue and thinking, "Can I say that in public? Whatever will they think? What if I offend someone?"

No. I'd much rather you hate me for who I am, than like some false face that I fake up for the blog. Screw that ten times.

So with that said, here we go. I'm going to shut my dick in the car door and talk about politics.

Ready?

Yeah, me neither.

*****

An open letter to the American populace.

Election day is coming up. That means that for months, you've been bombarded by all manner of forces encouraging you to vote.

I, on the other hand, would like to encourage you to do nothing of the sort. Quite the opposite in fact.

I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm not trying reverse psychology. What I'm saying is that I would like you to consider, seriously, the possibility of not voting in the coming election.

The problem is this. People seem to think that low voter turnout is the problem with elections. But that's simply not the case. All this Rock the Vote bull****? It's just that, bull****. If you think voting is a good idea because MTV told you to do it, then it is entirely possible that you are not very smart.

And if you are not smart, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't vote in the coming election.

For example, I was eating dinner the other day at a local restaurant and I heard someone at a nearby table say, "I'm voting for McCain. I heard Obama's into gun control. Nobody's taking away my guns."

I'm not making this up. I'm not exaggerating or paraphrasing. These words have been echoing around in my head for weeks, and it's entirely possible that I will never be rid of them.

If this sounds like something that might come out of your mouth, you need to realize that you are not very smart. I'm not saying you're a bad person. I'm not saying you're evil. What I'm asking is that you consider the very real possibility that you might not be capable of casting an intelligent vote.

Let repeat myself just for clarity's sake. If you're willing to throw in with one candidate based on senseless fear and "something you heard" you are not well-informed, and you shouldn't vote.

Again, I'm not saying you're a bad person. What I am saying is that the fate of the nation is probably too complicated for you to deal with properly. You should stay home on election night and watch some Nascar instead. That's right. Nice, comforting Nascar.

Similarly, I recently overheard someone say, "I'm voting for Obama. It's about time we had a cute president."

Oh anonymous young lady, on election night, please stay at home and watch America's Top Model, or whatever you insipid, feckless, wit****ed pogs do for entertainment. I say this simply because all available evidence points toward you not being smart enough to vote.

Well... let me correct that. You *are* smart enough to vote. All of you are. You are also smart enough to design a skyscraper or assemble a nuclear bomb. You *can* do these things….

…But you shouldn't. You shouldn't do these things because, odds are, you do not possess the knowledge base and critical thinking skills to do them *well.* That's the problem.

Think for a second. If you were riding along in a plane, and the stewardess came up to you and said, "I'm sorry to bother you. But our pilot just fainted, can you fly a 747?"

Any rational human's response to this situation has to be, "**** no. I can't fly this thing. People would die."

(Except if you're a pilot, of course. This analogy won't work if you're a pilot. Sorry.)

What amazes me is that sensible people who would refuse to pilot a plane because they don't know enough to fly, will, without hesitation, rush out to vote as if they're fully qualified. The result is that a mass of well-intentioned but ignorant people go into the booth and start pulling levers like they know what they're doing….

…But they don't. And because of this, slowly, our county begins to spiral out of control, spewing smoke and diving toward the hard earth below.

One final illustration.

About a month ago I was giving Sarah's friends a ride somewhere. Two 17 year old girls.

Sarah turned around to face them in the backseat and said, "If you guys could vote, who would you vote for?"

One spoke up quickly, "McCain. It would be cool if we finally had a woman vice president."

"Yeah!" the other one chimed in.

"Really," I said. It wasn't a question, just a statement. "Really," I said. "Wow."

"What?" one of them asked. "What do you think about Palin?"

"I think she's ridiculously underqualified," I said. "And her social policies are horrifying."

There was a pause from the backseat.

"I guess I'd vote for Obama then," the first girl said.

"Me too!" said the other.

This, in my opinion, is a terrifying snapshot of a large section of the American voting populace. They will decide who to vote for based on the information gathered from television commercials, Fox News, and youtube videos. Others will vote based on fear, based on misinformation, based on what their friends told them.

This year when I go in to vote, I know what will happen. I'm going to stand in line, and I will see some young college student, voting for the first time. Some young man, some young woman. They will be beautiful, bright eyed, and excited about participating in democracy.

Then I will see them wearing a T-shirt that boldly proclaims their political allegiance. And I will know that this beautiful young person is going to vote for a politician whose platform is pure poison to their future. I will see a young man ready to vote for a politician who will cut government funding to his university, raising his tuition and making it even harder to get a student loan. I will see a young woman ready to vote for a politician who will actively oppose her hopes for equal rights, good health care, and reliable birth control.

They will vote for politicians who will make it harder for them to get good jobs in the future. Politicians who will pollute the land and poison the waters. Politicians who will let write laws that will undermine the their right to free speech, then turn around tell them who it is legal to love.

These beautiful, young, hopeful people will go in and vote, fully believing that they are acting in their own best interest. They will vote believing that they are responsible citizens. That they are doing the right thing, that they are good people.

This last, at least, is true. They are good people. They have the best intentions. And they are slowly, confidently crashing my plane.

The truth is, no politician will every give you everything you want. But one of them will be better than the others. One of them is probably looking out for your best interests, and the others are looking out for someone else. If you aren't smart enough to figure out which is which, that's a problem. If you vote for the wrong one because you saw some catchy youtube video, then you are not a good human being.

So please. If you think you might be uninformed on the issues, consider not voting. If you are uninformed, not-voting is actually the responsible thing to do.

How can you tell if you're uninformed? Here's a tip: if you've spent more time planning your Halloween costume than learning about the election, you probably shouldn't vote.

If you're having doubts about whether or not you're well informed, well…. congratulations. Self-doubt is the foundation stone of critical thought. If you can admit to being unsure, there's a chance that you might actually be a rational, intellectually articulate human being. I salute you.


The next step is to get informed. Here's my advice on that.

First, be aware that your voice counts much more in local politics that it does in the presidential race. There are going to be all sorts of names on that ballot, not just McCain and Obama. Once, my friends and I got together and realized that if we voted in a block, we would control a full 10% of our town's votes in our particular district. That is power.

Secondly, make a list of all the loud people you know. The people who are always sure of themselves. Political pundits go on the list: Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Bill O'Reilly. Other candidates include personal acquaintances, relatives, and co-workers. Most bloggers belong on this list. So do I.

Got your list? You need to stop listening to the people on it. You need to take every piece of information they've ever said, and pull it squirming and fighting out of your of your head, because odds are whatever they told you is terribly skewed, if not an outright lie.

Sixthly and lastly, think of the people who you respect. Not someone you're fond of. Someone you respect. There's a difference. For example, I'm fond of the friends that I play board games with, but I respect the scrawny math teacher I once saw step fearlessly into a fistfight to save someone from getting their ass mercilessly kicked.

Ask the people you respect what they think about the election. Then ask them *why* they think that way.

Thirdly, think of someone you know that's smarter than you. Someone more informed than you. This is the person who, if you were going to buy a car, you would for their help. Not because they know about cars, but because they're smart, and they they're good at digging up information.

If you're having trouble thinking of someone like this, here's a hint. They are usually unassuming, considerate, and they listen more than they talk. Good candidates are teachers, librarians, and some journalists.

But honestly, occupation doesn't matter much. For me, this person is a friend named Andy, and I don't think he'll be offended if I call him what he is. A computer geek. I know other smart folks, but Andy tends to be my go-to guy when something is complicated, and I can't be bothered to do 10 hours of research to untangle the issue myself.

I've done my research on the election. I know quite a bit. But I still plan on talking to Andy before the event because I don't doubt for a second that he knows things I don't. Even better, Andy isn't afraid to argue. Best of all, Andy is more than willing to tell me when he thinks I'm full of **** and being utterly wrongheaded on an issue.

In brief, he is my favorite sort of friend, and I have no doubt that he will help me get my head on straight before I go in to vote. I hope you have someone similar in your life.

Geh. That's all. The pillar of burning rage inside me is guttering low, leaving me feeling kind of shaky and hollow, same as always.

If you're still reading this, I'm sorry. It's way longer than it should be, and has cost me a whole night's work on the book. But if I had gone this whole election without saying anything, I would have felt irresponsible. I would have felt by saying nothing, I was effectively committing a lie of omission. A coward's lie.

Good lord. Do I leave the comments on for this one? Though I know better, I think I will. I'm going to consider this a test, if y'all can behave like civilized human beings in the comments below, discussing politics politely and rationally, then it will give me renewed hope for the world. Good, honest conversation about the issues with other intelligent people is the key to understanding. Socrates knew that.

If things degenerate into snarky backbiting and proselytizing in the comments… well… then I guess I'll just heave a deep, weary sigh, and another little piece of me will die.

So yeah. Comments. Disagreement is fine, so long as we're polite and rational.

Did I mention polite and rational?

Polite and rational.


pat

[Bobboau]

...

did you at least give it the first three episodes?

[Stormkeeper]

         I'm not exactly sure how Harmony Gold suing Fasa makes a movie "possible". Not that of course, you have the full story. For one I think the lawsuit was actually in retaliation for Fasa suing Harmony Gold for ripping off the Timber Wolf with one of their toys.

Just means they're able to make RoboTech look 'realistic', speaking loosely here. Although I think they ought to make a BattleTech movie before a RoboTech movie.


I've never watched Gurren Lagan before, tbh.

[Akalabeth Angel]

         I'm not exactly sure how Harmony Gold suing Fasa makes a movie "possible". Not that of course, you have the full story. For one I think the lawsuit was actually in retaliation for Fasa suing Harmony Gold for ripping off the Timber Wolf with one of their toys.

Just means they're able to make RoboTech look 'realistic', speaking loosely here. Although I think they ought to make a BattleTech movie before a RoboTech movie.

      They already made a Battletech movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/
      Well I hope they make a kickass movie for Macross (Robotech) but I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. Though if Tobey casts himself as Hikaru Ichijo (Rick Hunter) I might be less inclined to see it.

     

[Colonol Dekker]

Good old Fist of the North star was the best real life conversion of any manga film.

obvious saracstic lie. no tags needed.

[TrashMan]

Did the bad guys assplode in the move when the hero guy hit them with his fists? Did he punch trough tanks?

If not, then the move was badly done. But then again you can't make good omlette out of bad eggs.

[Stormkeeper]

      They already made a Battletech movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/
      Well I hope they make a kickass movie for Macross (Robotech) but I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. Though if Tobey casts himself as Hikaru Ichijo (Rick Hunter) I might be less inclined to see it.      

No offense, but that is no BattleTech movie! Where are the Clanners, the puny, useless, freebirth scum, and my Timber Wolf!

[Akalabeth Angel]

      They already made a Battletech movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/
      Well I hope they make a kickass movie for Macross (Robotech) but I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. Though if Tobey casts himself as Hikaru Ichijo (Rick Hunter) I might be less inclined to see it.      

No offense, but that is no BattleTech movie! Where are the Clanners, the puny, useless, freebirth scum, and my Timber Wolf!

      Hmmn, let's see, a world where war is prohibited and instead is fought in duels with genetically enhanced humans? That IS the clans. Yeah, it's not  battletech, but it basically ripped off battletech and might be one reason why we'll never see a BT movie.

      If they do ever do a battletech movie, it'll be in the dark ages anyway.

[Stormkeeper]

      Hmmn, let's see, a world where war is prohibited and instead is fought in duels with genetically enhanced humans? That IS the clans. Yeah, it's not  battletech, but it basically ripped off battletech and might be one reason why we'll never see a BT movie.

      If they do ever do a battletech movie, it'll be in the dark ages anyway.

Well, in BattleTech, war is far from prohibited ... Its more or less the in thing ... And the Clanners only came in like what, 3050 ?

Dark Ages doesn't have as much BattleMech action, which to me is the definition of BattleTech ... Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Dark Ages novels, but it seems that the Dark Ages was written to relate more to real world armies, with mostly tanks and armoured infantry making up the army.