Poll

In your opinion, just how much energy can they harness?

II
14 (33.3%)
III
7 (16.7%)
>III
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?  (Read 7642 times)

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Offline Kie99

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I still haven't seen any reasonable evidence suggesting that the Shivans are >=2, other than "OMG!! SHIVANS ARE GODLIEK!!!" or "TEH GTVA IS LIEK 0.7 THE SHIVANS MUSSST BE LIKE 8."

They're capable of blowing up a sun, and according to :v: they had planet sized ships.  Either they've been building these ships for an extremely long time or they can harness extreme amount of energy (enough to deconstruct a planet's worth of material).  A Sathanas can output the equivalent of a Teraton of TNT in energy in about a minute.  There is strong evidence that the Shivans are an extremely advanced civilisation.
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Offline Rodo

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
They're capable of blowing up a sun, and according to :v: they had planet sized ships.  Either they've been building these ships for an extremely long time or they can harness extreme amount of energy (enough to deconstruct a planet's worth of material).  A Sathanas can output the equivalent of a Teraton of TNT in energy in about a minute.  There is strong evidence that the Shivans are an extremely advanced civilisation.

Or they are just a over-evolved species with more capabilities, just because they have been around a little more time that us on the universe.

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Offline Spicious

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Some of you seem to be having great difficulties dealing with the differences between energy and power.

 

Offline KappaWing

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think the Shivan ships are supposed to be a lot more powerful and difficult to destroy than they appear in game. This is a game, enemy fleets are balanced to friendly fleets for gameplay purposes, which always takes a back seat to RP. IMO, "reality" is Shivans on Insane mode.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Some of you seem to be having great difficulties dealing with the differences between energy and power.

Are you implying that energy is...raw and uncontrolled power, while power is energy that can be harnessed and put to use by a civilisation?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think he's referring to the physical definitions.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I still haven't seen any reasonable evidence suggesting that the Shivans are >=2, other than "OMG!! SHIVANS ARE GODLIEK!!!" or "TEH GTVA IS LIEK 0.7 THE SHIVANS MUSSST BE LIKE 8."

They're capable of blowing up a sun, and according to :v: they had planet sized ships.  Either they've been building these ships for an extremely long time or they can harness extreme amount of energy (enough to deconstruct a planet's worth of material).  A Sathanas can output the equivalent of a Teraton of TNT in energy in about a minute.  There is strong evidence that the Shivans are an extremely advanced civilisation.

Thank you.

 

Offline Charismatic

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Voted III

Well,  yes, shivans are like on Insane difficulty. I think they can control the power of stars and can go beyond that. The fact it took either their whole fleet of Sathi, or, a chunk of their closest Sathi fleet to do something to the star Shows they know about stars a bit more then us. The fact that the star blew up and took out a ton of their ships, shows they either have not perfected it, or thats all they can do. Sathi x 100 took alot of resources to build. I think they control several galixies, and at the minimum 3. They pooled in from 1 galixy and took out all ancient controled galixies + ours. They have planet sized ships, and have strong forces in many galixies but not all. They either were trying to harness power from Capella, and ****ed up, or they tried to blowit up. But it does not make sence to blow it up, and loose that many ships. Possibly for travel but, its a Very costly travel method. Not to get home... they Came from other galixies they wouldent need our one tiny capella star.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Where are these planet sized ships of which you speak?

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Unkown. :v: has stated that the shivans have planet sized ships, thus it is a Canon fact the they have em. The details of these ships, like their firepower, shape etc are all unknown. My guess is that if (Use Rot13 here) SF3 had come out, theyd appear something like the Earth model from INF R1 for distance/background shots and utilize surface plates (like the Moon Surface from TBP) when you got up close and personal 
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Offline Snail

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Unkown. :v: has stated that the shivans have planet sized ships, thus it is a Canon fact the they have em.
They didn't say they did. In fact, this entire notion is heavily corrupted. All :v: said was that they'd like to use ships that influence the playing field like a planetary surface; nothing about Shivans or if they even were planet sized.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I believe ppl here gravely underestimate the technological abilaties and know how of the GTVA and overestimate that of the shivans.

I mean making them some sort of godlike creatures is just plain old stupid.

Its the classic SF thin you see. All powerfull go like creatures are defeated or halted by these primitive retarted creatures that can barely wipe their own arses.

I mean come on.

I mean they blew up a star but it took the a massive fleet of jugg's to do it. Oh yeah and they lost a frak load of them in the process.

I mean sure they are more advanced then the GTVA that is obvious. However their tech doesnt seem that much more advanced when you stop and think about their age. I mean 10k years a go ppl barely knew to make fire .

Yet in the 10.000 years or so since the destruction of the Ancients all they managed to do is build juggs.

I mean in 10.000 years they should of had ships the size of fighter capable of taking out entire galaxies. Come on ppl.

Oh yeah and in 10.000 years they never figured out how to properly build a go damn warships. Sure they have impressive beam weapons and subspace tech but then again those are pretty much useless with the proper tactic used.

So mi guess is that they are about 1,5-1,7 with the GTVA at about 1,1-1,3 top.

Sure there is a significant gap in tech but given a few decades GTVA weapons and perhaps even subspace tech might evolve to rival i repeat rival not beat shivan tech.
Die shivan die!!
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Offline KappaWing

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I believe ppl here gravely underestimate the technological abilaties and know how of the GTVA and overestimate that of the shivans.

I mean making them some sort of godlike creatures is just plain old stupid.

Its the classic SF thin you see. All powerfull go like creatures are defeated or halted by these primitive retarted creatures that can barely wipe their own arses.

I mean come on.

I mean they blew up a star but it took the a massive fleet of jugg's to do it. Oh yeah and they lost a frak load of them in the process.

I mean sure they are more advanced then the GTVA that is obvious. However their tech doesnt seem that much more advanced when you stop and think about their age. I mean 10k years a go ppl barely knew to make fire .

Yet in the 10.000 years or so since the destruction of the Ancients all they managed to do is build juggs.

I mean in 10.000 years they should of had ships the size of fighter capable of taking out entire galaxies. Come on ppl.

Oh yeah and in 10.000 years they never figured out how to properly build a go damn warships. Sure they have impressive beam weapons and subspace tech but then again those are pretty much useless with the proper tactic used.

So mi guess is that they are about 1,5-1,7 with the GTVA at about 1,1-1,3 top.

Sure there is a significant gap in tech but given a few decades GTVA weapons and perhaps even subspace tech might evolve to rival i repeat rival not beat shivan tech.

How do you know you're not just seeing the tip of the iceberg?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Yeah, that's the question we've always got to ask.

The later stages of Freespace 2, particularly 'Into the Lions Den', shattered preconceptions about how far Shivan space extended. We don't know if that kind of expansion-of-scope would continue, but we don't know if it wouldn't.

It's a mystery!

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I can ask how do you know the jugg's we see there are not the entire jugg fleet at their disposal?

How do you know that the 80+ jugg's we see is not perhaps 1/3rd or more of their fleet ??

Look the arguements can go either way since we do not know the extent of the shivan controled space. However if the shivans would of been the god like creatures some of the ppl here make them out to be then the GTVA should o been wiped out in less then 1 hour.

Yet 2 times in a row the GTVA ha posponed its destruction and in the first FS even took out what was deemed as an indestructible ship.

Not only that but the GTVA is rapidly catching up with the shivans in terms of tech. Sure they are still a long way away but the GTVA is growing rather fast and catching up and improving on already existent shivan tech.
Die shivan die!!
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Offline Snail

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Look the arguements can go either way since we do not know the extent of the shivan controled space. However if the shivans would of been the god like creatures some of the ppl here make them out to be then the GTVA should o been wiped out in less then 1 hour.

Yet 2 times in a row the GTVA ha posponed its destruction and in the first FS even took out what was deemed as an indestructible ship.
It's evident the Shivans weren't serious about wiping out the GTVA on either attempt. In FS1, they sent in the Lucifer... If they were serious during FS1, they'd have sent in at least a few Sathanes, but all they sent was one single Lucifer and a few Demons (without beams, no less). Even if the Lucifer fleet was all that the Shivans could muster at that point, it still means that we're seeing their full potential.

In FS2, the Shivans didn't even send a single juggernaut to attack Vega or Epsilon Pegasi. They were all dicking around the star. If they were serious, there would be no bloody way the GTVA could survive against 80 juggernauts.

So, the Shivans could be god-like creatures, but just can't be be assed to wipe out the GTVA.

 
Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
III

 

Offline castor

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think Terrans/Vasudans wouldn't had much of hope understanding Shivan technologies as they did, if Shivans were anywhere close to level II.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Well so far they've been able to improve Shivan fighters, retrofit shivan weapons (UD-8 Kayser) and build (a comparitively small number) of comparable ships. I'd say the only aspect they're behind in is production and population.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I believe ppl here gravely underestimate the technological abilaties and know how of the GTVA and overestimate that of the shivans.

I mean making them some sort of godlike creatures is just plain old stupid.

Its the classic SF thin you see. All powerfull go like creatures are defeated or halted by these primitive retarted creatures that can barely wipe their own arses.

I mean come on.

I mean they blew up a star but it took the a massive fleet of jugg's to do it. Oh yeah and they lost a frak load of them in the process.

I mean sure they are more advanced then the GTVA that is obvious. However their tech doesnt seem that much more advanced when you stop and think about their age. I mean 10k years a go ppl barely knew to make fire .

Yet in the 10.000 years or so since the destruction of the Ancients all they managed to do is build juggs.

I mean in 10.000 years they should of had ships the size of fighter capable of taking out entire galaxies. Come on ppl.

Oh yeah and in 10.000 years they never figured out how to properly build a go damn warships. Sure they have impressive beam weapons and subspace tech but then again those are pretty much useless with the proper tactic used.

So mi guess is that they are about 1,5-1,7 with the GTVA at about 1,1-1,3 top.

Sure there is a significant gap in tech but given a few decades GTVA weapons and perhaps even subspace tech might evolve to rival i repeat rival not beat shivan tech.

I take it you've never watched the end cutscene to FS1?