Poll

In your opinion, just how much energy can they harness?

II
14 (33.3%)
III
7 (16.7%)
>III
21 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?  (Read 7302 times)

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Offline KappaWing

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Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

I found this scale to be very applicable to Freespace, and since the Shivans could be anywhere from just what we've seen to an infinite force with even larger and larger ships spanning the universe, I would be interested to know HLP's opinion on how great the Shivan civilization actually is. We know they can harness the energy of a star, so that places them at least at Kardashev II. But a galaxy? Multiple galaxies? How big do you think they are?

I will reveal my opinion later, although some of you who know me from way back when will already know what it is.

If you vote, then find later discussion to be convincing, you may change your vote.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I'd say they have control over multiple galaxies but since they don't seem to have much interest in the star systems they conquer (except for the Jump Nodes) I'd say III.

 
Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
hey, are you the guy that made that relentless trailer?
Sig nuked! New one coming soon!

 

Offline KappaWing

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
hey, are you the guy that made that relentless trailer?

Yeah. I've resumed working on that mod. I'm 18 missions into it. Its expected to be about 25 total.
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 
Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Having read the Wikipedia entry I'd say the canon shivans are somewhere between I and II. I'm assuming the Ts and Vs are at level I to make a fleet of their size(they can harness the energy of an entire planet). Our current civilization is at about 0.7 although we control all of the earths surface.

A level II civ is capable of harnessing the whole power output of a star. Assuming that what the Jugs did in Capella was acquiring energy in some form(in this case the energy need to travel) they did not in fact harness all of its power because a lot of it was wasted on the Supernova  :P

A level III Civ is basically the ultimate S-F hand wave possible.

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think that they are Type IV civ

Depending on which physicist you ask, Type IV civilizations either;
A)Controls the energy output of the visible universe (about 1045W) - I'll call this IVA

B)harnessed the power of it's supercluster (for us about 1042W) - I'll call this IVB
 
or

C) harnessed extragalactic sources such as "dark energy" - I'll call this IVC

D) IVD (my own creation) does all three

...Id say the shivans are type IVC
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 12:38:54 pm by terran_emperor »
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I'd say III.

Who voted I? :wtf:

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
They never show the ability to control all the power of a single star, only the ability to detonate a star uncontrollably

 

Offline castor

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
1.25

 

Offline KappaWing

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I believe they are over type III, for reasons that terran emperor touched on. The ability to manipulate subspace does not necessarily imply that they can harness the power of multiple galaxies, but does suggest that they can at least travel to them. What the Shivans travel to, they can likely harness and control. I can't see them creating and maintaining a Sathanas fleet with anything less than a star cluster's power, considering the epic abilities of the Sathanas.

I'd say terrans and vasudans in FS2 are just above I.

I envision that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with Shivans. As we go deeper and deeper into their space, we simply find larger and more menacing spacecraft.

Here is my personal theory on the Shivans. Shivans form and control galaxies, plain and simple. They are the alpha life form of the universe. Quasars are not actually black holes, but giant Shivan subspace vortexes that hold stars together so Shivans can localize their operations in each individual galaxy and do not have to spend the energy needed to transverse the intergalactic medium all the time. However, I think it would take the power of a star to propel a Sathanas fleet through intergalactic subspace. I think blue subspace jumps are interstellar, while green ones are intergalactic.

As for the Shivans home, I think they have their origins in subspace themselves. One cannot deny they have an affinity to subspace, and civilizations using subspace is what attracts them in the first place. (Terrans, Vasudans, Ancients)

Assuming a  limitless supply of energy in subspace, I think its not a stretch to say that Shivans have acheived universal domimation.
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
III

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think blue subspace jumps are interstellar, while green ones are intergalactic.
So the Knossos nodes all go to different galaxies?

 
Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
hey, are you the guy that made that relentless trailer?

Yeah. I've resumed working on that mod. I'm 18 missions into it. Its expected to be about 25 total.

cool. i would sit and watch that looping for hours when i was 10.

sorry for the tangent everyone.  :)
Sig nuked! New one coming soon!

 

Offline KappaWing

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I think blue subspace jumps are interstellar, while green ones are intergalactic.
So the Knossos nodes all go to different galaxies?

Negative, I was referring to the Capella incident. Knossos are Ancient structures.

cool. i would sit and watch that looping for hours when i was 10.

sorry for the tangent everyone.  :)

 ;)
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
It's a stupid scale. Being able to do something that has effects on a large scale does not mean you can do everything that you might want to do on a smaller scale or on the same scale in a different location.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Interesting way of measuring the extension of a civilization..

I would say the shivans are a III, I think they exploded Capella because they needed the energy from the nebulae to keep their society alive, but that's just my imagination talking...



el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
I'd say III.

Who voted I? :wtf:


No-one, there's no option to vote I :wtf:
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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Unknown

Not enough information
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Offline Mars

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
Well, answer me this, how exactly are we calculating all the power of a planet / star /galaxy? Supposedly civilization is using all of Earth's power (according to the wiki article) but we certainly are NOT.

 

Offline Excalibur

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Re: Where are the Shivans on the Kardashev Scale?
So the Shivans are type III - they use 10^20, or 10000000000000000000 H bombs per second? :wtf: :doubt:

1.27. (anyone here think 3.6.9?) ;)
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