[TrashMan]

I have a feeling this is why you keep getting monkeyed.

What? What the hell did I do? I don't get it.
Maybe I'm stupid and missing something, but I can't for the life of me think of why would any sane person monkey or ban me. I'm civil and obey the forum rules.

Now, I might be irritating sometimes, but that by itself is no grounds for banning/monkeying, because everyone can be irritating to someone else without even trying or wanting to, so you might as well go ban everyone all the time. I know a dozen people on these forums that irritate the hell out of me, but I wouldn't ban them.

[General Battuta]

I have a feeling this is why you keep getting monkeyed.

What? What the hell did I do? I don't get it.
Maybe I'm stupid and missing something, but I can't for the life of me think of why would any sane person monkey or ban me. I'm civil and obey the forum rules.

Now, I might be irritating sometimes, but that by itself is no grounds for banning/monkeying, because everyone can be irritating to someone else without even trying or wanting to, so you might as well go ban everyone all the time. I know a dozen people on these forums that irritate the hell out of me, but I wouldn't ban them.

From other points of view you're not actually being civil.

But, seriously, focus on the positive -- now I'm excited to play your campaign!

[TrashMan]

From other points of view you're not actually being civil.

That's the problem with POW's - you can see whatever you want to see.

As far as FOW goes - it will take a while. All missions are done but need tweaking and adding stuff. and I just got SOTS:AMOC...and my monitor seems to be kicking the bucket or something.

Speaking of which, I'd really like to know why I was monkeyed..

[Colonol Dekker]

Sounds fine

[karajorma]

Speaking of which, I'd really like to know why I was monkeyed.

From what I was told it was for this coming so soon after the whole nonsense on this thread.

[TrashMan]

And might I ask - what exactly is the problem with either of them?

You (or someone else..I don't know who monkied me, so I'll just use the word you in the text..this you does not necessarily mean you you) are having trouble with me questioning the validity of initial media reports?
You think it's nonsense to not believe the first news that hits you, but instead wait a bit for confirmation? How exactly is stating my opinion on that matter in any way worthy of banning/monkeying?


As for the second - what's the problem with that one? I clearly wrote the impression I was getting and I clearly stated that there can very well be problems from a coding perspective that I'm not aware off. Unless you were offended by the snarky comment about pilots. In which case you're missing the joke/sarcasm.


If these two "incidents" (and I use the terms loosely) are an example of what you consider inappropriate on this forum or what you consider trolling...then you and I are not using the same dictionaries or apparently the same reality either....and I weep for anyone posting on this forum.

[General Battuta]

And might I ask - what exactly is the problem with either of them?

You (or someone else..I don't know who monkied me, so I'll just use the word you in the text..this you does not necessarily mean you you) are having trouble with me questioning the validity of initial media reports?
You think it's nonsense to not believe the first news that hits you, but instead wait a bit for confirmation? How exactly is stating my opinion on that matter in any way worthy of banning/monkeying?


As for the second - what's the problem with that one? I clearly wrote the impression I was getting and I clearly stated that there can very well be problems from a coding perspective that I'm not aware off. Unless you were offended by the snarky comment about pilots. In which case you're missing the joke/sarcasm.


If these two "incidents" (and I use the terms loosely) are an example of what you consider inappropriate on this forum or what you consider trolling...then you and I are not using the same dictionaries or apparently the same reality either....and I weep for anyone posting on this forum.

Trash, the whole problem is your confrontational attitude and your inability to recognize your own behavior. If you just accepted it and took a more mellow approach, you probably wouldn't be monkeyed again.

Basically, it's just some common etiquette: don't get up in people's faces with your opinion. Show some courtesy. Be respectful. This is a particularly mature community, which may be why you're monkeyed so often.

I think you're a decent guy. You just have to lay off the martyred attitude and the confrontationalism.

[TrashMan]

Nicely put, but that's not the whole picture.

There is no "martyr attitude" or some deliberate confronationalism.

I'm not a human doormat to sit idly by when people s*** on me and tell blatant lies about me. Insults I can stand, up to a point - but not injustice. If anything, I've been letting thing like this pass without reaction for far too long.

As for courtesy and respect - I always show them. Go back and read my posts and you'll see I practicely never use namecalling even in a heated debate and I don't have a habbit of dismissing others people oppinions as that or a moron.

If you see me as confontational, well..there's not much I can do about it. I'm saddened that the' the impression you have of me, but that's simply not true.

Lastly, while you intention is appreciated, I'm not in need of advice on how to behave on forums. As I've said before, I'm a regular on 20 forums and this is the only one where I ever had any kind of trouble...for nothing.

What I do know 1000000% is that admins shouldn't misuse their power like that.

[karajorma]

As I've said before I don't care if the other forums let you get away with acting this way. Or if you are better behaved on other forums. Here on HLP you will be judged to the standard HLP uses. On Game-Warden I tend to be more relaxed because the standard is different there. Different boards have different characters. There is no universal moderating standard.

If you feel you've been treated harshly bring it up on the Site Support forum and we'll see if people agree with you. If so then the admins might consider doing something about it. From what I've heard though you have no support. Pretty much everyone I've talked to has agreed that your actions in the past deserved monkeying. If you can't see why then it's a real pity cause it's likely to keep happening to you then.

Anyway you've been told where and how to address this matter. And that's all I'm going to say about it here cause it's pretty much off topic.

[TrashMan]

As I've said before I don't care if the other forums let you get away with acting this way. Or if you are better behaved on other forums. Here on HLP you will be judged to the standard HLP uses. On Game-Warden I tend to be more relaxed because the standard is different there. Different boards have different characters. There is no universal moderating standard.

Other forums don't let me get away with anything. If anything they are stricter rules than here. And I behave completely the same here and there. I'l llet you do the math.

If you feel you've been treated harshly bring it up on the Site Support forum and we'll see if people agree with you. If so then the admins might consider doing something about it. From what I've heard though you have no support. Pretty much everyone I've talked to has agreed that your actions in the past deserved monkeying. If you can't see why then it's a real pity cause it's likely to keep happening to you then.

I wonder who you've been talking too..

This probably should go into Site Support, but I kinda don't think it will do any good..if anything will. Powers that be aren't good at or willing  to moderate themselves.  but you are right, this is not the forum for this..
Signing off.

[Snail]

Isn't this more or less, well, case in point?

[tinfoil]

Well that was entertaining 

[Akalabeth Angel]

Isn't this more or less, well, case in point?

        Case in point of what? If people actually review the forum guidelines http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,37583.msg0.html#new it's not really clear to me what rules Trashman is breaking either, with the possible exception of:

Be nice. If you don't know how, go watch reruns of Mr. Rodgers' Neighbourhood - he's a wonderful example.
 
        But his posts, for all their sarcasm and abbrasiveness still fall within the bounds of:

Lively and interesting debate is encouraged and welcomed. However we ask that members respect the right of free speech. That is to say that as long as a comment isn't of a racist or sexist nature - a member has a right to say it. If you disagree with something that someone has said then feel free to argue a retort on the sole condition that (in keeping with point 2) it is not a personal or bigoted attack. Argue the point; debate the person.

        Having an attitude, and attacking someone are two very different things.
        Goober's reply in the first thread "Do you have Asberger's or something?  Because honestly, you seem to have no common sense. " is what I would take as a personal attack but there doesn't seem to be any fallout for that. I guess if a personal attack is "justified" it's okay?

        In either case, if someone is monkeyed or banned I would suggest that the reason for that action being taken is conveyed to them via PM or whatnot along with how that reason violates the forum rules. Ie "your tone is too sacrastic and condescending" and violates the "be nice" rule. Monkeying someone without even saying why isn't going to solve anything. That's like having a player fail an FS2 mission without telling them which objective they didn't achieve. Of course the "be nice" rule itself is very subjective in its own right.

[General Battuta]

I agreed when he was monkeyed for sexism a while back. I don't know if I agree with the monkeying since then, but perhaps the admins consider him 'on thin ice'. I'm sympathetic to both sides, and I hope that Trash can stick around and talk with the rest of us.

There is a certain common sense element to not getting monkeyed which both TrashMan and BlackDove violate consistently and entertainingly, but BlackDove seems to do it intentionally. I'm not sure this is a completely fair element to Trash, however.

[Goober5000]

I don't have a habbit of dismissing others people oppinions as that or a moron.

If you see me as confontational, well..there's not much I can do about it. I'm saddened that the' the impression you have of me, but that's simply not true.

Go back and read this post and this post.  These are two examples.  You have a habit of completely dismissing, out-of-hand, anybody who disagrees with you without bothering to give the other person's point even two seconds of consideration.  Even when it's apparent to everyone present that the other person knows much more about the subject in question than you do.  And usually you do it in an extremely disrespectful and/or condescending manner.

Goober's reply in the first thread "Do you have Asberger's or something?  Because honestly, you seem to have no common sense. " is what I would take as a personal attack but there doesn't seem to be any fallout for that. I guess if a personal attack is "justified" it's okay?

No, that was a personal attack, and I apologize.  But it was written out of extreme frustration.


The monkeyings are starting to serve multiple purposes.  The number one purpose is to discipline TrashMan and make him see that he needs to conduct himself differently if he wants to participate in a discussion.  But now they're starting to be used as a way to provide a few days' relief from his jackassery.

I mean, honestly.  I even agree with TrashMan's points occasionally, but even then I'm embarrassed to participate in the same discussions that he does.

[TrashMan]

  Having an attitude, and attacking someone are two very different things.
        Goober's reply in the first thread "Do you have Asberger's or something?  Because honestly, you seem to have no common sense. " is what I would take as a personal attack but there doesn't seem to be any fallout for that. I guess if a personal attack is "justified" it's okay?

I wouldn't say it's jsutified because it's a personal attack, but rather because I'm on the recieveing end. Apparently if you're irritated by the other guy it's ok to insult.

Go back and read this post and this post.  These are two examples.  You have a habit of completely dismissing, out-of-hand, anybody who disagrees with you without bothering to give the other person's point even two seconds of consideration.  Even when it's apparent to everyone present that the other person knows much more about the subject in question than you do.  And usually you do it in an extremely disrespectful and/or condescending manner.

Then learn to read Goob. Seriously. Cause I wasn't being dismissive not in the slightest.

I was stating the IMPRESSION I got regarding the pilot table. IMPRESSION. And I clearly added at the end that there very well might be things from the coding perspective that make things more complicated than they APPEAR to me.
How the f*** is that dismissive?
Not to mention that there is nothing disrespective in there, only a bit of sarcasm...or do you expect people to worship the ground you walk on simply because you're Goob and a admin? But I guess you can't take a joke....

Neither is the second link you posted anything strange. so, you can get irritated and lash out, even when there's no real reason to do so...but when I'm misquoted and pick on, I'm not allowed to get irritated and post in a harsher tone? Immediate monkey? How does double standards sound to you? Familiar?


I've been on these forums for 9 years. The banning and monkying started only recently (year - year and half). I haven't changed my posting behavior since I joined, so where were you before?
Speaking of which, my netiquette is quite fine thank you. No admin, moderator, developer or poster on any other forum ever complained.
But apparently I've rubbed you the wrong way at some point and now you have a -100 tolerance treshold for anything you think I'm doing.

I read about a interesting social experiment - when you don't like someone, or have heard bad things about him, you expect bad things from him. So when you analyze/read his actions/words, you immediately search for the worst possible interpretations and the worst possible motivation and stick with that.
So of course...my motivations MUST be dark..I MUST be acting our of sheer malice...and there's no possiblity that my words could be intepreted in any other matter than how you did interpret them.....


I fully remember the idiotic reasons I was banned before.  They made no more sense that these "grave accusations" do now. I could lsit htem too, but these two are more then enough to illustrate the redicolous banning/monkey policy

The monkeyings are starting to serve multiple purposes.  The number one purpose is to discipline TrashMan and make him see that he needs to conduct himself differently if he wants to participate in a discussion.  But now they're starting to be used as a way to provide a few days' relief from his jackassery.

Then you admitt it. You using your banning powers because you consider me jackass and want to shut me up.
This has nothing to do with rules or proper behavior.
I sometimes consider you a grade A jackass, yet I still wouldn't be banning/monkeying you simply cause you're irritating (to me). That's not what an admin does.

[karajorma]

Whether someone is a jackass or not is unimportant. What is important is whether or not they are a disruptive jackass.

And the Guidelines For Forum Conduct are just that, guidelines. It quite clearly states that

we reserve the right to review problems on a case by case basis. In these situations our word shall be final.

[TrashMan]

In that case the situation is clear - I'm not, or ever was, a disruptive anything.

Unless of course, you also take the liberty to re-define any word in the dictionary as it suits you.


EDIT: Speaking of which, if we assume I was misbehaving and banning/monkieying is used to encourage me/tech me not to do it again, it's without any effect without an explanation. After all, how can someone avoid doing something wrong if he doesn't know what he did wrong?

So far, the explanations for the last 3-4 "incidents" are lacking. Either they were not provided at all, or they don't hold water at all.

[Spicious]

I think the presence of this thread says otherwise. I'm kind of looking forward to monkeyed for whining about being monkeyed now.

Other forums don't let me get away with anything. If anything they are stricter rules than here. And I behave completely the same here and there. I'l llet you do the math.

You call that maths?

[Colonol Dekker]

Idiosynchronisity maybe.........