[haloboy100]

HAY!

I like Harper.

[tinfoil]

I've no problem with that. if i could i'd vote for him. but that doesn't change the fact that in my riding he is considered the lesser of 6 evils.

[karajorma]

I`m from the US, and most the people in the Erie county prison system aren`t there for violent crimes, but for non payment of child support and DUI`s.  But its these, (non-violent) prisoners that are able to get out on work release.

Isn`t the reason for prison to re-habilate the criminal?

Only partially. It's also meant to be a deterrent and a punishment for committing the crime too. 

[TrashMan]

Death is too good for those..."people".

Burn them..alive...slowly.

[Angelus]

Impale 'em in public and broadcast it on tv.

*sigh*
But in the end, nothing will prevent such things from happening, no matter what punishment such...people...get.
It could however reduce the number of cases.

[Mars]

I think Social Services needs a lot of help honestly. People in the state of mind it takes to kill a child for no good reason will not be deterred. The only way to make sure that kids in that situation are safe is by making sure that they never enter the clutches of such parents.

This also raises an issue because the adoption and foster system in the US sucks.

[castor]

This is dark ****. And probably just a tip of an iceberg - obviously there are lots of children who get about the same treatment, but not quite enough to get killed. Who never get any publicity anywhere (except if they later end up making it to some gross news themselves).

[Grizzly]

I hate people.

Me too.

[Charismatic]

being repeatedly shot with a pellet gun and choked unconscious

Wow, that sounds sexy:P

[TrashMan]

Impale 'em in public and broadcast it on tv.

*sigh*
But in the end, nothing will prevent such things from happening, no matter what punishment such...people...get.
It could however reduce the number of cases.

It would too.

However, I'd do what china does  expand that to officials/buisnissmen in high positions that steal from the people and misuse their power. Bring them out and put a bullet in their head.
that ought to give the buisnisses and politicians a shock.

[Martinus]

I always find the thought of killing someone that killed someone disturbing and hypocritical when it's done in the name of justice. I know that events like this spark strong emotions but a little bit of objectivity and compassion is, in my very humble opinion, greatly preferred to a destructive outcome.

Having witnessed the behaviour of people who have psychological problems, I can't agree that a behavioural trait which might very well be outside of their control should damn them when they could potentially be treated. A fair percentage of the population have socio-pathic tendencies; Milligram's experiment show that even people who would normally be considered 'sane' can carry out fairly heinous actions with a level of distance when put in unusual circumstances; 'evil' is a poor excuse.

Also, deriding China's human rights whilst applauding actions that show supreme disdain for the aforementioned is disturbing. I hope you're happy with the idea of being put under the gun should a regime be unhappy with your actions Trashman.

[TrashMan]

I don't steal or kill, so I'm safe.

While there are some who have medical conditons that change the circumstances, I find that that these days everyone was suffering from temporary insanity, cronic depression or one affliction or another.
Trying to excuse everyone of their crimes by listing half the medical encyclopedia is not the way to go either.

[Angelus]

I always find the thought of killing someone that killed someone disturbing and hypocritical when it's done in the name of justice. I know that events like this spark strong emotions but a little bit of objectivity and compassion is, in my very humble opinion, greatly preferred to a destructive outcome.

Having witnessed the behaviour of people who have psychological problems, I can't agree that a behavioural trait which might very well be outside of their control should damn them when they could potentially be treated. A fair percentage of the population have socio-pathic tendencies; Milligram's experiment show that even people who would normally be considered 'sane' can carry out fairly heinous actions with a level of distance when put in unusual circumstances; 'evil' is a poor excuse.

Also, deriding China's human rights whilst applauding actions that show supreme disdain for the aforementioned is disturbing. I hope you're happy with the idea of being put under the gun should a regime be unhappy with your actions Trashman.

I don't steal or kill, so I'm safe.

While there are some who have medical conditons that change the circumstances, I find that that these days everyone was suffering from temporary insanity, cronic depression or one affliction or another.
Trying to excuse everyone of their crimes by listing half the medical encyclopedia is not the way to go either.

The death penalty for everyone ( with psychological problems or without ) who has done a crime ( murder and such ) is probably the wrong way.
Throwing them in a cell for the rest of their life sounds more...human.

A year and a half ago, a group of teenagers ( the oldest was 15), beat a 40something year old man to a bloody pulp, without any reason. They kicked him multiple times on the head, while he was laying on the ground,
unable to defend himself.
He was for month in a coma, he wont be able to walk ever again, nor can't he eat alone.
He isn't able to do anything on his own.

What could be the reason for that?
Psychological problems? School stress? Beef with the parents? A bad childhood? A bad TV program? Boredom?

Is the fact that that someone has psychological problems a reason to leave "'em of the hook" and give 'em a mild punishment?

[karajorma]

Who's talking about milder punishments?


I've never understood why people seem to assume in debates about the death penalty that death > *

If death really was the worst thing in the world you'd have to wonder why anyone ever commits suicide.

[Martinus]

Trying to put words into my mouth makes for a poor argument. I suggested that there may be more than sheer nastiness to the acts and that killing people was a poor solution to an already ****ty situation. No mention was made that it should be used to absolve all crime but when a state is putting someone's life on the line it would seem only fair that they would put in enough effort to make sure that 'innocent until proven guilty' is rigorously tested.

A wise person once said something akin to "it is better to have ten guilty persons go free than one innocent man to be erroneously found guilty", i.e. it's not a perfect system but we should attempt to make it one with a low chance of failure. Whilst none of the people responsible for the torture and murder of a child (or other party) may be innocent in the strictest usage of the term, an act so contrary to another person's well-being and their own (if you consider the consequence of being discovered) suggests that perhaps they aren't mentally balanced and that, if there is a therapy, an attempt should be made to help them. That therapy might be an extended stay in jail or drugs; only careful deliberation by experts would present the most efficacious outcome. (I'm not suggesting that this happens though which is a depressing thought).

On a more personal level Trashman: You might not kill but you seem quite happy to advocate the practice, a case of do what I say not what I do? Your argument isn't even an argument; 'everyone', as in every criminal, is not involved here and never was. Give examples of the many people ('everyone'?) that you've found to be claiming a mental condition.


Kara: I know what you're getting at but a person choosing to die rather than having death chosen for them is different enough to warrant two views that may not necessarily concur.

(I forgot that it's dangerous to enter such an 'interesting' debate on HLP).

[Flipside]

The thing about Death is that it is an end to punishment, not a beginning of it. Personally, I think it could be considered far more 'vindictive' to help them than hurt them, that way they have to spend the rest of their life deprived of freedom, and knowing what they did.

[NGTM-1R]

The thing is, some of us really cannot concieve of something worse than death. It is for those whom the death penalty carries the most weight, and for whom it was written; they killed another, so it seems that death is the worst they could concieve of doing to someone. They have demonstrated they believe that death is the ultimate sanction, and so in a sense chosen what should be applied to them as the ultimate punishment. (This is, incidentally, a likely reason behind why only first-degree murder is subject to the death penalty in most places.)

And furthermore, what you describe as "vindictive" assumes they believe they have done wrong, as well as ignoring a key problem of human nature: punishment loses its force over time. The bottom line is you cannot punish someone forever. People are too good at adapting. Even torture ceases to have meaning after a year or two.

On a more personal level I view the death penalty as a social expression of absolute rejection; in commiting premeditated killing without justifible cause you have destroyed something of your humanity and hence have forfeited your membership in the human race and your right to live. This is why I can personally advocate the application of the death penalty to rape, but not to lesser forms of murder.

[S-99]

The thing is, some of us really cannot concieve of something worse than death.

Drag behind a horse and let the horse run frantically into the sunset (forgot the name for this). Or give an open gaping wound and release into the prison populace. Or, my favorite, implant a tiny explosive device on someones heart. And then set up a magic word for detonation.

There are some things worse than death. And these would be it. There's also another idea. Upon heinous act, trip to the hospital for automatic organ donation.
I do mean to make a joke here and an example. Someone should come up with a humane worse than death thing.

[TrashMan]

Drag behind a horse and let the horse run frantically into the sunset (forgot the name for this). Or give an open gaping wound and release into the prison populace. Or, my favorite, implant a tiny explosive device on someones heart. And then set up a magic word for detonation.

There are some things worse than death. And these would be it. There's also another idea. Upon heinous act, trip to the hospital for automatic organ donation.
I do mean to make a joke here and an example. Someone should come up with a humane worse than death thing.

All of this things also end with death. Only is slower and more painful. A quick death is at least somewhat humane.


@Maeglamor  - I agree. Death penalty should only be reserved for the extreem cases, where guilt was proven beyond any reasonable doubt (like getting caught on video, or having direct DNA evidence and so forth)

[S-99]

Doesn't always result in death. The horse can always be stopped if there is a rider on the horse. The explosive implant leads to a life of silence. The gaping wound in prison can be solved with hunting down guitar wire or fishing line on the prison black market. And the organ donation would be leaving you with enough organs left to live.

EDIT: might be good to have prisoner organ donation though. easy stuff like taking a kidney, blood donors, marrow donors (given if healthy to done). maybe good for sentence reduction. or default for all prisoners. that certainly would be a good way to give back to society.