Author Topic: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5  (Read 21089 times)

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Offline Flipside

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
As long as it doesn't go all Daneel Olivaw on us.

Spoiler:
What, like arrange things so that humanity becomes a hive mind and then steal the brain of a child who can use the Force?

:lol: That's the Bunny!

Seriously though

Spoiler:
Basically, making it so that this is all being arranged by the Fifth for the benefit of Earth

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
What a fraking great episode.


 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
I liked it all except the end reveal.

I trust them to do something good with it. But I was hoping for a different option.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
I think Dee's suicide was one of the most jaw-dropping things I've witnessed in this show. That was just, wow.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline watsisname

Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Holy frak, that episode was fantastic.  Spoilers below:
Spoiler:
Dee's death was simply gut wrenching.  I liked how they used that to make you think that Rosslyn dies back from the teaser (when Adama is crying over the white-sheathed body).  Also apparently Kara and the other final five cylons had previous lives on Earth(?) ~2000 years ago, and the entire population was actually cylon, and they got nuked.  The final five were reborn in the colonial fleet.  Oh, and the fifth was Ellen, revealed at literally the last second.  Somewhat of a let-down but I think it works better than having it a major character.

Can't wait for next episode. :yes:
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Yes, yes. We were discussing this on IRC...
Spoiler:
The "humans" now are actually Cylons, who were themselves created by Cylons ad infinitum. "All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again." It's just an endless cycle of cylons creating cylons which rebel and then try to imitate their masters and eventually build their own cylons, who rebel... Honestly, I hope I'm wrong though.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Holy frak, that episode was fantastic.  Spoilers below:
Spoiler:
Dee's death was simply gut wrenching.  I liked how they used that to make you think that Rosslyn dies back from the teaser (when Adama is crying over the white-sheathed body).  Also apparently Kara and the other final five cylons had previous lives on Earth(?) ~2000 years ago, and the entire population was actually cylon, and they got nuked.  The final five were reborn in the colonial fleet.  Oh, and the fifth was Ellen, revealed at literally the last second.  Somewhat of a let-down but I think it works better than having it a major character.

Can't wait for next episode. :yes:

Spoiler:
Kara's not a Cylon. There aren't any slots left. The body she found is her own body from the Viper she died in during Maelstrom.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
You mean her previous body. There must be some kind of resurrection ship or station or something near Earth so that she could be resurrected there and then sent back to Galactica in a new Viper, as well as to resurrect the final Four who died in the nuking.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
You mean her previous body. There must be some kind of resurrection ship or station or something near Earth so that she could be resurrected there and then sent back to Galactica in a new Viper, as well as to resurrect the final Four who died in the nuking.

Spoiler:
It's possible. At the moment, I don't think she was resurrected or downloaded into a new body (since I still think she's human.) What occurred to her might be a supernatural event -- she's an angel, as Leoben said. Or somesuch.

Dunno yet. Need more data![/spoiler

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Do we seriously need to use spoiler tags in this thread? It's pretty obvious to me that there are spoilers in a thread like this... Could someone add "spoilers" to the thread topic so that it would be a bit more convenient to discuss the new revelations/red herrings?

Spoiler:
Okay. So we now know that the inhabitants of Earth were Cylons of some sort, most likely the same as the Final Five (of whom four were revealed last season). We do NOT know if they were the 13th tribe. It is possible that the 13th tribe arrived to Earth... and nuked the crap out of the existing population, ie. final/original-five model cylons, or started a war that ended with grand scale nuclear bombardment 2000 years before the events of the show.

Another option is that the 13th Tribe settled on Earth, and somewhere along the line developed an ability to resurrect via genetic engineering and developement of other technology. 2000 years ago, there was a nuclear war on Earth, but it's causes are very unclear. It is possible that the 13th tribe fell victim to their own technological cylons that were rebelling, or they simply got into an oldfashioned nuclear war with themselves - or a third party like Shivans came and nuked the planet to kingdom come.

During this event, most of the inhabitants died; however at least four of the inhabitants were at some point later resurrected, transported into Colonies and implanted into new lifes with faux memories, same as Boomer-Eight later on. Who did all this, is probably the fifth cylon model, or at more unlikely case Lords of Kobol or other entity.

If what has been suggested by the last episode is actually true, it's rather... interesting. Something is orchestrating this stuff aside from the Colonials, Sinister Seven and Final Four. Perhaps it is the Final Fifth cylon, perhaps it is the 13th tribe, perhaps "Lords of Kobol". The terms and differences between cylons and humans are being deliberately torn down, though.

There's also the chance that the "flashbacks" that the Four of Five experienced might be implanted memories too. Or at the extreme case, we have no way of knowing what may be real at this point, and who classifies as human and who as cylon. The fifth is probably a survivor of the Earth's nuclear destruction 2000 years ago, or possible even it's cause. Who knows.

Personally, I doubt either Starbuck or Ellen are "the" final fifth cylon model. Ellen might be an aged model Six, which would be in conjunction with the fact that Caprica-Six is pregnant and Ellen was, in the "flashback" (another thing I doubt) saying that their child shall be born again or something like that. Starbuck being the fifth cylon would be cheap; I think that whoever is the hidden puppet master resurrected Starbuck in a similar fashion that Tigh, Anders, Tori and Chief were resurrected - so in a sense Starbuck might actually be a 13th Cylon model now that she's once resurrected. She probably still has no genetic or biomechanic modifications that make the actual cylon skinjobs faster and stronger and stuff, but some might classify her as cylon now.

A shame she didn't have the courage to test the body for DNA sample; it might've been a red herring after all, though the Viper's registration and the ID tags and personal jewelry does suggest that she indeed died in the explosion, the debris was transported to Earth and scattered around, and someone or something was orchestrating it, resurrected her (probably the reason why she experienced so little time during her disappearance), put her in a new Viper that matched the old one and locked it to track it's "own" beacon transponder thingie so when it got close enough to Earth it would point to right direction. Remembering the Cylon raider seen in the Maelstrom, it is most certain that the unknown entity hidden in shadows is indeed the "Fifth" cylon model.

Do we even know that the Fifth is in the fleet? He/she/it might not have inserted itself into Colonial fleet of survivors after all, opting to pull the strings from behind the scenes...


Dualla's suicide was... a disappointment and a shock. And probably just as much an unexpected (as suicides tend to be in most cases) nasty surprise to viewers as much as it was to the other characters... :blah:

Good episode in my opinion, though I'm not yet sure if it's just the BSG withdrawal symptoms going away after a long long time without new Battlestar episodes. All in all though... we can't really be sure of anything any more. Prepare for some monumental mindfrak I say. :mad2:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
I don't think Kara is a cylon...
(You know, her mother wasn't married, was she?)


 

Offline Rian

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Loved the episode, including the final reveal. This is as tense as TV gets, and (barring a few quibbles with the writing) I thought it was brilliant.

Nice interview with Ron Moore about the episode. (Spoileriffic, of course.)



 

Offline watsisname

Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
^  Great link, thanks for sharing that. :)
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
All of this has happened before, but it will happen again. Again... Again... Again...

I have the feeling that this statement is false. I am re-watching episode 1, the scrolls of Pythia say that the Leader would not live to see the new land (like mozes?). The leader is there, however...

  

Offline Angelus

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
All of this has happened before, but it will happen again. Again... Again... Again...

I have the feeling that this statement is false. I am re-watching episode 1, the scrolls of Pythia say that the Leader would not live to see the new land (like mozes?). The leader is there, however...


Because the "Caravan of the heavens" hasn't arrived at the promised land, yet.
Earth isn't the promised land.


 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
It occurs to me at this point that referring to the Final Five, or any of the humanoid "Cylons" as Cylons is completely and utterly wrong. They are not Cylons. They never have been. In fact, they've perpetrated a monsterous atrocity on everyone involved. The humanoid models hijacked the entire Cylon race for their own purposes by happening to be in the right place at the right time when the Cylons were trying to develop more humanoid models. They are not leaders; they are infiltrators who have totally subverted the organization. They then used this to commit genocide against humanity.

At this point, the humanoid "Cylons" are more or less turning out to be sentient parasites!
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
It occurs to me at this point that referring to the Final Five, or any of the humanoid "Cylons" as Cylons is completely and utterly wrong. They are not Cylons. They never have been. In fact, they've perpetrated a monsterous atrocity on everyone involved. The humanoid models hijacked the entire Cylon race for their own purposes by happening to be in the right place at the right time when the Cylons were trying to develop more humanoid models. They are not leaders; they are infiltrators who have totally subverted the organization. They then used this to commit genocide against humanity.

At this point, the humanoid "Cylons" are more or less turning out to be sentient parasites!
I don't think you can support that via evidence in the show.

The Final Five and Significant Seven aren't necessarily the same. And the mechanoid Cylons were already at war with -- and attempting genocide against -- the Colonies.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
I don't think you can support that via evidence in the show.

The Final Five and Significant Seven aren't necessarily the same. And the mechanoid Cylons were already at war with -- and attempting genocide against -- the Colonies.

The mechanical Cylons also concluded a peace treaty with the humans and seemed prepared to leave well enough alone. It's been repeatedly speculated and usually considered a going proposition that the mechanical Cylons did not have the means, and hence no real desire to, obliterate the human race on their own; they needed the infiltrators and the compromised CNP. (Although I suppose in a sense, they did have that means after all; Raiders equipped for in-atmosphere FTL jumps and a one-way nuclear strike mission could have leveled the Colonies quite effectively, but at the cost of leaving them open to fleet reprisal...which suggests that genocide was not an objective they were willing to sacrifice very much to accomplish.)

And no, they're not the same, but one is descended from the other by fairly obvious routes, or at least has significant influence on the other, or something, because the Final Five are after all objects of religious sigificance to the Cylons, either taboo or otherwise, which suggests signficant contact.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Ace

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Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
Spoiler:
It occurs to me at this point that referring to the Final Five, or any of the humanoid "Cylons" as Cylons is completely and utterly wrong. They are not Cylons. They never have been. In fact, they've perpetrated a monsterous atrocity on everyone involved. The humanoid models hijacked the entire Cylon race for their own purposes by happening to be in the right place at the right time when the Cylons were trying to develop more humanoid models. They are not leaders; they are infiltrators who have totally subverted the organization. They then used this to commit genocide against humanity.

At this point, the humanoid "Cylons" are more or less turning out to be sentient parasites!
I don't think you can support that via evidence in the show.

The Final Five and Significant Seven aren't necessarily the same. And the mechanoid Cylons were already at war with -- and attempting genocide against -- the Colonies.

Well, it does seem that the Cylons developed by the Colonials were hijacked by the "original programmer(s)" and were given access to rather old base material for the seven humanoid models, (thus lacking the disease immunity) restrictions placed on the Centurions, and finally programming restrictions on not thinking about the final five. This seems to imply that either the entity doing the reprogramming knew of the five, or that one of the five did this. The question is, how much do the Ones know about this and how has that factored into their actions?

What is interesting is that Earth and Kobol were both destroyed about the same time... (Earth getting the worse end of the deal)
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 
Re: *drool* The Epic Journey BSG 4.5
What is interesting is that Earth and Kobol were both destroyed about the same time... (Earth getting the worse end of the deal)

Colonials nuke Cylons
Gods get angry
Gods force Colonials to flee Kobol.

Or something like that.

I find it rather intresting... Don't the Lords of Kobol exist of twelve as well? Why the Cylons just have one god... Only one god followed the 13th tribe. So there are actually 13 gods...