[redsniper]

HLP ... friendly, welcoming place.

[karajorma]

It is. Strangely enough many newbies comment on that. Lord alone knows where they are coming from. The Nazi bum rape forum perhaps.

[Daniel P]

HLP ... friendly, welcoming place.

That why I come. 

Some people like people to leave the forums.

[Flipside]

Yes, HLP is actually pretty friendly and easy going, certainly more tolerant of new questions or even old questions than it used to be. If you'd have posted 5 years ago that you wanted to start modding and what tools would you need, you wouldn't have got advice, you'd have got flamed for not reading some really obscure references to various editors that were spread out all over the internet

We have our problems, just like everywhere else, but for the main part it's not too bad.

As for the use of colloquialisms, it's not about what is offensive to either British or Americans, it's about what is offensive to Pakistanis. I'm a UK resident, so I can't speak for outside the country, but I do know that just about every Paskistani resident of the UK would take the word 'Paki' as an insult.

Also, what did I miss with the 'Robin Hood' reference?

[karajorma]

Also, what did I miss with the 'Robin Hood' reference?

The last gasps of the TBP nonsense.

[Flipside]

Aha.. Probably glad I missed it then

[Hellstryker]

best way to deal with racism is not to hide it but let people see it. if someone is racist everyone will turn against them, if they are not a racist but sometimes use racist language they will only end up getting harassed by the self righteous with social engineering aspirations.

On the contrary, I don't think calling them an idiot will help. I think you're all missing the point here. Trolls troll to get attention. Ignore them and they'll go away 

as for flaming what constitutes a flame is highly subjective, and once again goes back to my position of using power to manipulate how people act and thing is not a good way to do things, in fact I think you just proved it, by not allowing people to call one and other stupid when they are, you have taken away the group's ability to self regulate, therefore requiring an ever escalating set of increasingly totalitarian controls on what can and can not be said.

Well said.

[Nuclear1]

Oh! We're banning words that are offensive now?

Alright, for a short list, you can start with:
Ivan
Commie
Slav
Red
Redneck
Hillbilly
Yank

Among others. I mean, if we're perma-banning people now for just words, then those are some we can start with. After all, they offend me! Even if you're just making a bad joke or think no one will get offended by it.

Seriously, this is this an absurd level of PC. If someone here started a thread saying "Kill all kikes" or "All spics must die" then you're free to ban them--THAT'S racism.

iamzack made a bad joke and you all should know that. If that meets the new criteria for perma-bans due to racism, then the next person who calls an American a Yank should be banned too, or someone from the UK a Brit...

[Rian]

The reason I object to the use of racial slurs – and the reason I have no respect for people who habitually use them – is because they are overwhelmingly used as a tool of oppression. The vast majority of slurs are used against underprivileged minorities, and they serve to reinforce the power of the dominant cultural group and make others feel unwelcome. This is true even in casual usage, even if there is no overt malice behind the statement. They are insidious.

If you happen to be a member of the dominant cultural group, then you are unlikely to ever be marginalized in this way. Try to remember that not everyone enjoys the same privilege.

[BloodEagle]

....

....

Because not being a dick to people just because they aren't white is a good thing. 

Call a jack a jack, and a spade a spade. I don't care what your race or your religion is. The second you call something by a different name because someone might take offense is the second that you create bigotry.

P.S. Please don't blatantly ignore the point here.

Since your original comment was in response to me, BloodEagle, I must say that in this case someone clearly is taking offense.

On a board with a global audience you have to be careful.

I know that if someone said 'Jap' -- a term I used a lot in my youth, playing World War 2 with toy fighter planes, but which I later learned was really offensive -- a lot of people wouldn't bat an eyelash, but at least some HLP members would be dumbstruck and angry.

Besides, it's all in the context. 'Yank' is pretty harmless coming from, say, Kara; but if a very anti-American member referred to you as an 'angry Yank' you'd probably be upset.

Well of course I would. I'm a Cajun after all. 

But that doesn't mean that the term (Yank, in this case) itself is offensive. I.e. there's a big difference between "angry Yank" and 'Yanks should die', one is bigoted/hate-speech and the other is stereotyped. Therein lies the true problem, there's no clear line between stereotyping and bigotry. As there's no clear line, what is and isn't bigotry comes under fire in useless debates like this.

[karajorma]

Oh! We're banning words that are offensive now?

We're permabanning for racism.

Iamzack's comment was racist. Someone want to explain how it wasn't?

[Ford Prefect]

The reason I object to the use of racial slurs – and the reason I have no respect for people who habitually use them – is because they are overwhelmingly used as a tool of oppression. The vast majority of slurs are used against underprivileged minorities, and they serve to reinforce the power of the dominant cultural group and make others feel unwelcome. This is true even in casual usage, even if there is no overt malice behind the statement. They are insidious.

If you happen to be a member of the dominant cultural group, then you are unlikely to ever be marginalized in this way. Try to remember that not everyone enjoys the same privilege.

Oh my god... Congratulations on being one of about ten people on the internet who understand this concept. I'm not kidding; I'm going to wake up tomorrow in a slightly better mood for having read this.

[Kosh]

Oh! We're banning words that are offensive now?

We're permabanning for racism.

Iamzack's comment was racist. Someone want to explain how it wasn't?

I fail to see how it is any different from calling americans yanks, which has been done several times on this site without any mod *****ing about it.

[Nuclear1]

Mods are frankly just making this a bigger deal than it should. If you really do care about racist terms or ethnic slurs, then I want the next person who uses an anti-American slur banned.

I really think this is just about iamzack, this just being the last straw. It's just being justified as "she made a racist comment, therefore we will ban her for good."

[Hellstryker]

Oh! We're banning words that are offensive now?

We're permabanning for racism.

Iamzack's comment was racist. Someone want to explain how it wasn't?

Your moderating will be the death of this forum, Kara. Why don't you perma-ban when it's actually worthwhile? *cough*trashman*cough*

You honestly can't tell Iamzacks comment was a joke, even if a poor one?
At least he/she/it is actually funny as opposed to some other people around here.

HLP Is the one of the most mature and intelligent communities I know of, and I'm quite sure it's capable of moderating itself.

No, you know what? I'm just repeating what Bobboau said. It's not going to change anything. Let me put it to you this way then; I would've left HLP due to your moderating long ago were it not the last great bastion of the Freespace community.

And let me ask the rest of you a question; Am I the only one? I sincerely doubt that.

Edit: This thread should be split or renamed.

[ssmit132]

*ssmit132 attempts to steer the thread back on topic*

On A Current Affair they said that they thought the shooters were hired by organized crime people. I don't know whether they were postulating or they knew that, because I wouldn't rule out terrorists either.

[karajorma]

Mods are frankly just making this a bigger deal than it should. If you really do care about racist terms or ethnic slurs, then I want the next person who uses an anti-American slur banned.

No you don't. You're claiming a false level of insult in the term.

Frankly I'm amazed that anyone would have the balls to equate being called a yank with being called a nigger or a paki.

I really think this is just about iamzack, this just being the last straw. It's just being justified as "she made a racist comment, therefore we will ban her for good."

Actually I said I'd ban her for good if she repeated it after being warned that it was a racist term and that such terms weren't acceptable here. If I wanted Iamzack out I would have simply kicked her out.

On A Current Affair they said that they thought the shooters were hired by organized crime people. I don't know whether they were postulating or they knew that, because I wouldn't rule out terrorists either.

What would organised crime have to gain from it though?

[S-99]

They can't handle Paki RAGE.

In good humor this can be obviously interpretted without offense. Blame critical correctness for not wanting to offend the masses for the smallest things. I don't see what she said as racist anyway.

Such a stir on a minor thing that doesn't seem like it would persist later into this thread without action.

[Dilmah G]

*ssmit132 attempts to steer the thread back on topic*

On A Current Affair they said that they thought the shooters were hired by organized crime people. I don't know whether they were postulating or they knew that, because I wouldn't rule out terrorists either.

Yeah, I heard they were linked to the hotel incident last year.

Well firstly I'm surprised so much discussion erupted over a throwaway line by iamzack and something I said without thinking twice about. I'm not around Pakistani people a lot so I'm not really aware of that whole issue regarding the word....you can be sure it won't ever be a product of my keyboard again. I've really become immune to most racial slurs....being an ethnic minority in this country, and those that do offend me are usually met with a stream of rhyming expletives etc. And don't start with the whole "Well-just-because-you-are-doesn't0mean-we-are" speech, don't worry, I'll think before I speak.

[Kosh]

No you don't. You're claiming a false level of insult in the term.

Frankly I'm amazed that anyone would have the balls to equate being called a yank with being called a nigger or a paki.

Yank WAS a deragatory term. The song Yankee Doodle was written specifically to insult the American colonists.

The song's origins were in a pre-Revolutionary War song originally by British military officers to mock the disheveled, disorganized colonial "Yankees" with whom they served in the French and Indian War. The word doodle first appeared in the early seventeenth century to mean a fool or simpleton, and is thought to derive from the Low German dudel or dödel, meaning "fool" or "simpleton".

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