[Hades]

Yes, but anything is better than the apparently very low poly retail version.

Wow, you're so smart. 

[High Max]

.

[Zacam]

I actually happen (for once) to agree with High Max. (Don't let it go to your head)

Again, while the currently proposed model may not have everything everybody is looking for a Boanerges to be, it IS true to the most part of the original, while still being an update. And as I don't see _any_ body else doing one, if this one get's supplied to the FSU with textures (again, even just an original uncompressed Diffuse will do and be preferred) then it is what the FSU will use.

[Tomo]

Back on topic...

The file won't open in my copy of Max, it looks like it was saved in a much newer version.

Can you export it as a 3DS Max 6 file?

[Thaeris]

I will say the general shape seems to have the FS2 feel to it... and I approve of it as a whole. But the interpretation of the canopy is... odd. Heck, there's even a Boa in the FS2 mainhall that gives an abstract of all the features! It even shows the canopy... which looks a lot like the one seen on the retail model.

[AthlonBoy]

I will say the general shape seems to have the FS2 feel to it... and I approve of it as a whole. But the interpretation of the canopy is... odd. Heck, there's even a Boa in the FS2 mainhall that gives an abstract of all the features! It even shows the canopy... which looks a lot like the one seen on the retail model.

I have not seen this. o_o I shall pore over the screenies. I'll probably end up redoing the canopy to suit.

The file was made in Max 2010, I find the graphite tools to be a MASSIVE help. Go look at the official site and see what's there. It helps automate many of the tedious jobs.

I've recently managed to put together the original Boanerges into a Max scene, after re-learning how to get around POF files. I'll see if I can make the missile pods better match up to the texture. Then I'll put that up as an older Max file if I can.

EDIT: I had a butchers but could only find a very small shot of a Boa in the mainhall. It looked exactly like the retail model, with the nondescript black strip where a canopy should be.

EDIT2: Here's an OBJ export of it, with the newly relocated missile tubes.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1400541/Boanerges.obj

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1400541/Boanerges.mtl

[Thaeris]

Downloaded the model to take a look:

(a.) In general, it's beautiful... or at least as pretty as something as the Boa can get. Disregarding my previous statements about the canopy (which I will still back, by the way), there's one thing which is... sort of out of place. Where's the thruster assembly? There's just a void back there!

(b.) The grill intakes are cool. The detail is nice. However, that's a lot of polygons most people will never see. They'd be great for a cutscene model, but a normal map would work wonders there. However, I'm sure you're already were aware of that.

(c.) I advocate a revised canopy. I've said that before. But, if you must keep the current version, there's a ton of extraneous polies along the sides. It could use a bit of a clean-up. Unless, of course, there's a real reason for that... I'd actually be curious why.

(d.) If you do redo a bit of the forward fuselage (might play with that later myself), look at the Ursa a little. It might be cool to have the crew in tandem, with some sort of exit door to the rear. It would certainly make the bomber feel bigger... and more like a bomber.

I would like to think this was insightful. Thanks.

[The E]

I think we had the discussion about the cockpit several pages back. It was concluded that a side-by-side arrangement, Prowler-style, fits the existing cockpit shape better.

[Thaeris]

Hmmm... If side-by-side seating was ever appropriate for a bomber, it would have been the Ursa. Still, no use in keeping that up. I'll try and play with the model myself sometime.

I opened PCS2 to get a better relation between the two models. Haven't pulled the actual object out of the program for a side-by-side comparison with the new one yet, but I did find another potential problem. There's supposed to be the third weapons bank above the cockpit area. Right now, it's just another intake. Someone might consider revising that...

[Hades]

And all of the intake's extrusions (there are four intakes) are extruded too far in, there are two extrusions beside the cockpit that are also extruded too far in, the cockpit glass uses too many unnecessary polies and generally doesn't fit (because it is so round compared to the Boa's part of the cockpit). The engines are crap, and I think the retail engines (detail on the textures) would work much better, the primaries look too blocky in comparison to the ship, and I must agree with Thaeris' statement that the side-by-side profile for the cockpit looks weird... and the retail cockpit suggests more of arrangement much like the Apollo from the FS1 intro, and the little greeble-ish detail you put seems out of place, to be honest.

The base model itself looks great, though.

[Aardwolf]

I recently noticed the Boa looks a lot like the upgraded GTDr Amazon...

[Thaeris]

It would explain its death-trap aura.

"Hey Frank, how's it goin', man?

Well, Bob, just fine. We just got our first assignment!

Wow, sweet! Go team Alpha 4!

Well, according to our orders, we're supposed to attack this, eh, Ravennah... or, something like that, thing..."

Later that day...

Bob: "Help meee!!!"

Frank: "NOOOOOO!!!"

...That's a true story...

[hundeswehr]

please do not change the boanerges design. it has character and personality. and it looks damn unique. that's why people can't get used to is and think it looks ugly.

the concept designs are a step back from the innovative in-game product. it looks like a typical terran bomber with 4 boxes attached to a tube as opposed to the compact tight and practical looking design of the true boanerges.

[High Max]

 

[castor]

Yea, but it needs to be very subtle, unless you accept to destroy the original concept.

[Thaeris]

I'd say the Boanerges is to retail models as the Kulas is to fan models: Those designs are "locked-in" by such a manner that you can't easily enhance them, despite the fact that they are in need of enhancement. And any enhancements you do will have to be within an acceptable margin of artistic licence in relation to keeping true to the spirit of the original model. The current Boa... just isn't there yet.

...Fortunately I'll be able to get around the Kulas problem as I'm dealing with the Blue Planet Kulas, not the MotA fighter. 

[High Max]

 

[hundeswehr]

some things that don't make sense thought is the inclusion of donuts where the missile holes are. they're not necessary. and there's too many.

also, the airvent looks out of place. if this were designed for atmospheric flight, it would be more aerodynamic and less bulky. also not liking the random goblin effects.

the original design still looks much better imo:



if you think about it, the unconventional "ugly" features of the boanerges actually make it one of the most believable looking ship designs in freespace.  when designing a ship for space combat, aerodynamics doesn't really matter, hence the lack of any features resembling wings or intakes. the aesthetic therefore becomes incredibly pleasing when one takes into account the reasoning behind such design decisions. the bulky design also makes sense. you want to compact the ship as much as possible to protect against collision and impact and steamline the internal processes.

 the simplistic cockpit as well. someone referred to it as drone-like. i think in space the last thing pilots want is to have a airhole caused by some space junk in their glass canopy. the black stripe seems to me like a shell protecting the cockpit where the glass is tinited with presumably a coating of protective material. it's unfortunate some people don't like the design, i think it's the best one in free space 2.

[Kolgena]

Just noticed something about the air vents as well: did anybody notice that where the air vents are now are exactly where one of the missile bays are? I'm quite sure that I recall dual cyclops side-by-side being fired from above the cockpit in Slaying Ravana.

Also, the random square greebles don't look so great. I'd rather see some piping/other ship-related substructures, or even smooth plating rather than the weird things we have now.

[Thaeris]

The latest iteration of the Boa model has the missile tubes fixed to resemble the original, so that's not a real concern.

Again, here are my problems:

1. The forward cockpit section... inherently conflicts with retail FS2 as there's a Boa in the main hall, and it has the original pattern of canopy.

2. The upper missile banks have been "ventified." The vents themselves look fine, but that's a real problem for the model if there's not a reasonable fire point where a fire point is supposed to exist!

3. There's NO engine assembly. That's right, no engine thrusters were modeled for the Boa. That needs to change.

In general though, it's beautiful. It has many attractive characteristics that I think the eventual HTL Boa should have.