[Swifty]

I definitely agree with Battuta on all the points about Halo Reach. ODST seems to get a lot of unfair ragging for not being a full Halo game but after experiencing Reach, I've concluded that ODST succeeds so much more on the artistic and emotional level.

I'm keeping Reach in my 360 library solely to scratch my "fight Elites on the Halo 3 engine" itch. Oh, and for the improved Firefight and multiplayer. If only Halo ODST (properly) had Elites roaming around in New Mombasa.

[Scotty]

Playing on Heroic, I'm glad that Bungie, whatever the other faults or perceived faults in the game, managed to make Elites badasses again.  Real badasses, too, not just informed badassitude.  And Hunters.  Hunters were painful again.  Plus, reticle bloom makes some of the weapons feel like they should have, way back in Halo: CE (I'm looking at you, assault rifle), although I'm curious as to why these ARs have 32 round clips and the Chief's still have 60.

I'm only about four missions in (and not noticing choppy narrative, really, but maybe that's because I was the next best thing to glued to the screen and speakers when I was playing, so I didn't miss much that I know of), and my only major gripe (aside from higher level elites getting two Armor Abilities) is that splatter kills are way to easy to get now.  Stuff keels over at the merest prod.  That, and AI drivers are still pants-on-head retarded.

[Spoon]

It was ironic that I ended up looking forward to the deaths because I figured they'd be some of the cooler, more impressive things the characters would do.

 

[General Battuta]

It was ironic that I ended up looking forward to the deaths because I figured they'd be some of the cooler, more impressive things the characters would do.

 

Spoiler:

It's even true of the main character. The last level was the most awesome.

I also forgot to ***** about the fact that there seems to be much less combat dialogue for Marine allies. I wonder if they were running out of disc space. And having the Covenant not speak English was...okay, but didn't make them that menacing as their language is just garbled guttural gibberish. I'd rather have English grunts and WORT WORT WORT back. Where the hell is the WORT WORT WORT?

I'm only about four missions in (and not noticing choppy narrative, really, but maybe that's because I was the next best thing to glued to the screen and speakers when I was playing, so I didn't miss much that I know of)

I don't know where you get this idea that the narrative problems are somehow resident in the player. I was paying pretty damn close attention - this is a new Halo title, after all - but like Modern Warfare 2 (which you made the same argument about) Reach just doesn't present itself well. Halo 1 and even ODST were far better in this regard.

Also do we really need this awful lines about

Spoiler:

army-concealing shields? You couldn't think of a better name - theater shield? Strategic stealth? At least nobody told me to go TO WAR

[JGZinv]

Amen Battuta... amen...

[Swifty]

I'd rather have English grunts and WORT WORT WORT back. Where the hell is the WORT WORT WORT?

I miss laughing at the exaggerated Elite gibberish from Halo CE. Stickying or needling Elites were the best since they had that super long anguished death cry of "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH" when killed by an explosion. Elites just seemed goofier back in the day despite their lethal predispositions. I guess since they solidified their back story and their personalities for Halo 2 and beyond, they've become much more serious.

[Scotty]

I don't know where you get this idea that the narrative problems are somehow resident in the player. I was paying pretty damn close attention - this is a new Halo title, after all - but like Modern Warfare 2 (which you made the same argument about) Reach just doesn't present itself well. Halo 1 and even ODST were far better in this regard.

Comments about Modern Warfare 2 aside, I was just saying that I didn't notice that the narrative was choppy, not that any feeling of choppiness would be resident in the player.

[General Battuta]

I don't know where you get this idea that the narrative problems are somehow resident in the player. I was paying pretty damn close attention - this is a new Halo title, after all - but like Modern Warfare 2 (which you made the same argument about) Reach just doesn't present itself well. Halo 1 and even ODST were far better in this regard.

Comments about Modern Warfare 2 aside, I was just saying that I didn't notice that the narrative was choppy, not that any feeling of choppiness would be resident in the player.

Well you suggested you didn't notice the choppiness because you were paying attention, which suggests I wasn't.

Here's an interesting exercise to illustrate the choppiness, thanks to HBO's Cody Miller. Go through each level of the game and ask yourself if you could cut it without impacting the story.

Spoiler:

Pillar of Autumn: No. It’s what jump starts the whole game.
Halo: No. It introduces us to Halo, and provides time for The Autumn to Crash.
T&R: No. If we don’t rescue Keyes, we don’t learn Halo’s a weapon, the covenant fire it and we all die..
Silent Cartographer: Yes. There’s no real reason why we need to find the cartographer, THEN go to the maproom. Skipping to AoTCR is an option.
AoTCR: No. Without getting to the control room, we never learn where keyes is, and Cortana never learns about Halo’s purpose.
343 GS: No. It introduces the flood and sets up the remaining conflict.
Library: Yes. Nothing really happens in this mission, GS could have teleported you right to TB and everything could continue.
TB: No. You need to stop Halo from firing.
Keyes: No. You need keyes’ implants to blow up the Autumn.
Maw: No. It’s the climax.

So Halo’s really only got 2 levels that don’t do anything to advance the plot. What about Reach?

Winter Contingency: No. This jump starts the whole game.
Sword Base: Yes. The events of this level are pure action. Set up coms, defend ****, etc.
Nightfall: I still don’t know what we were doing in this level, so definite yes.
Tip of the Spear: Yes. Blah blah take out a shield protecting some covenant thing. Again pure action and no plot at all.
Long Night of solace: Yes. Blah Blah, blow up some covenant ship which is totally unimportant. Again, pure action and no plot.
Exudus: Yes. Blah Blah, get civilians out of the city. Notice how the plot hasn’t advanced AT ALL since meeting with Halsey.
New Alexandria: Yes. Blah Blah destroy some com jammers. The game’s almost over, and the plot STILL hasn’t advanced since level 2.
The package: No. Finally, the plot moves. We learn we need to get Cortana to Keyes on the Autumn..
Pillar of Autumn: No. It’s the climax.

Notice how in Halo, the plot is steadily advancing all throughout the game? Now notice in Reach, how only the very beginning, and the very end of the game move the story forward at all?

[Scotty]

Spoiler:

Winter Contingency: No. This jump starts the whole game. [agreed.]
Sword Base: Yes. The events of this level are pure action. Set up coms, defend ****, etc. [agreed.]
Nightfall: I still don’t know what we were doing in this level, so definite yes. [There was an entire section of the continent blacked out to satellite surveillance, etc.  Noble team splits into recon teams to locate both the source of the blockage and the (rather obvious to infer) base in the area.  This is where we learn how the Covenant got onto Reach in such large numbers without anyone noticing.]
Tip of the Spear: Yes. Blah blah take out a shield protecting some covenant thing. Again pure action and no plot at all. [agreed.]
Long Night of solace: Yes. Blah Blah, blow up some covenant ship which is totally unimportant. Again, pure action and no plot. [The Covenant ship you call totally unimportant is a supercarrier the likes of which the Battle of New Mombasa surrounds completely.  It is also responsible for a large portion of the Covenant ground troops and Command and Control for same.  Also, Jorge dies.  Behold!  Plot!]
Exudus: Yes. Blah Blah, get civilians out of the city. Notice how the plot hasn’t advanced AT ALL since meeting with Halsey.
New Alexandria: Yes. Blah Blah destroy some com jammers. The game’s almost over, and the plot STILL hasn’t advanced since level 2.
The package: No. Finally, the plot moves. We learn we need to get Cortana to Keyes on the Autumn..
Pillar of Autumn: No. It’s the climax.

Notice how in Halo, the plot is steadily advancing all throughout the game? Now notice in Reach, how only the very beginning, and the very end of the game move the story forward at all?

Spoiler:

My responses (to the levels I've played so far) are in brackets.

[General Battuta]

Again you're making the assumption that I somehow didn't see all those things you just cited. I did. They're just not plot points of any worth or merit. The Nightfall one was basically a long hike for a single plot point that most of us already assumed was true, and the whole storyline around the

Spoiler:

supercarrier[/i] was literally just killing time until the main fleet showed up.

[mxlm]

Alright Batman, I have to ask what that TO WAR thing was a reference to.

[General Battuta]

At one of the early dramatic points in Halo 3.

MARINE: Sir, squad leaders are requesting a rally point. Where should they go?

MIRANDA KEYES: *pauses*

*looks over shoulder*

*cocks pistol dramatically*

"TO WAR".

fsaihogreagregar

[StarSlayer]

Funny I can get a WORT WORT!! during firefight.  Its a bit more subdued then in past games, but as my broken body flopped across the landscape I believe that was the last thing that I heard before expiring.  I took a break from the campaign to accrue points for cool **** for my Spartan, they seem a bit more curtailed then in ODST.  Fun as hell mind you, but I can often manage to survive a bout by myself were in ODST I could last a long damn time but eventually I was doomed.  Did I mention Firefight is fun as hell?

[mxlm]

I sure hope that exchange is on youtube.

ETA: Jesus, nevermind. Every video I look at is people punching her over and over and/or titled RAEP!

[IceFire]

Play through was about 11 hours all told and I had a ton of fun.  Perhaps the only thing I didn't like was not having enough time to get to know the characters.  I felt like I knew the ODST team better by the end of ODST. Still... Reach was great. Firefight will probably be played for a long time to come for me so I'm looking forward to that.

Also bonus points for such an incredible theme song. I love the drums and haunting choir motif. And it connects well with the other Halo games without using exactly the same theme.

[SpardaSon21]

Halo sucks.  Duke Nukem is forever.

[General Battuta]

The good news is the Reach multiplayer is brilliant. As good as Bad Company 2.

[Roanoke]

Anyone else think the Elites seem unconvincing ? I mean the way they move and behave ? Seems like their only real strength is shields that protect from just about anything save overcharged plasma and the weakness of Spartan 3 shields.

I've yet to see an Elite do anything interesting like they would in Halo 1.

[StarSlayer]

What level are you playing at?  They're fiendish in Legendary.  Hell in Firefight I shot a Goldie in the face point blank with a Spartan Laser and he chuckled then hewed me with his beam sword.

[MR_T3D]

yeah, espicially on legendary co-op, the elites are very aptly named.
bastards cloak and flank, dodge needles like crazy, rush me with jetpacks, lock armour just as their sheild was about to drop so their buddy with the fuel rod can blast me, these guys are nuts.

then I got into a fight with brutes and laughed at their stupidity as i dispatched them easily, still on legendary.

really liking the game