[SpardaSon21]

I don't know, maybe a massive armada of Phantom dropships or something else dramatic, like a Scarab supported by Elites and Grunts blowing the building next to you sky-high before a Hornet blows it to smithereens with a barrage of rockets before getting melted by a wave of plasma fire from the infantry.

[General Battuta]

Of course not, but I don't really happen to care about the story either way.

And thus, I'm able to enjoy my $80 investment regardless of whatever mess people think Bungie have made with the story.

Some people saw a conclusion to the Halo saga in Reach, I saw another game to play on Fridays.

See, the thing is that the criticisms being made here aren't limited to the story. They're also applied to the gameplay. And, bizarrely, Reach's gameply never even matches the scale achieved in Halo 2, let alone Halo 3. Even ODST had more 'battle' levels with friendly vehicle support.

I mean what's up with that? If you're going to be playing a game on Fridays it shouldn't be an underperforming one.

This is the worst crime: the dramatic mighty introduction of the Covenant on Reach, after half a level of buildup, is looking out a window and seeing a Skirmisher standing on a roof. Le wut.

Not that I'm going to argue that the story wasn't a disjointed mess featuring for the most part a series of missions with trivial objectives with no context.   But what did you expect to make first contact with?  It seems obvious to me that your first engagement will be with the enemy's scouts and light infantry, that's their job.  I mean its a Skirmisher, the name is on the tin.  

Easy solution. Move the end of 'Winter Contingency' to the beginning. First contact should be the awesome fight in the comm relay.

Then transition to the promised hordes of Covenant that Bungie's own documentaries pledged us - 40 AI characters in one space. Scarabs striding the mountains using Bungie's AI LOD system, and flocks of Banshees. And for goodness' sake don't intro the first squad of Elites with nary a comment.

When you compare the level of chatter and context in, say, Halo 2's New Mombasa courtyard battle to Reach...it's just really puzzling.

Also spardason's idea is pretty cool.

Now if anyone says 'but the Covenant snuck onto Reach!', well, that's just one enormous plothole. The game should have started with a total blackout from the Visegrad region attributed to Insurrectionist activity; in truth it would have been ballistically inserted Elite pods taking out the local sensors followed immediately by a wtfhuge fleet. None of this 'army-cloaking shield' and 'teleportation spire' crap.

[StarSlayer]

I'm not going to argue the campaign was a giant let down.  I still wanted giant Kursk esq battle with Scorpions and Wraiths since the run up to Halo 2.  That mission with Jun would have made much more sense if it was an assassination of some Elite Field Marshal at the Covenant FOB.  The whole Falcon mission was bizarre and pointless.  There was no point to bringing up the Forerunner, I mean I don't even recall it being a plot point in any of the subsequent games.

But to be honest Winter Contingency wasn't a "bad" mission in my opinion.  Granted I think the way they spread the action out across the map was a bit boring but the actual Op wasn't militarily bizarre to me.  I'd expect them to drop the Spartans away from the relay.  I mean they figured it had been seized by rebels.  Flying Falcons right up to the thing isn't much of a surprise and's got Black Hawk down written all over it.  A quick silent approach on foot makes sense in this case.  Making first contact with a perimeter of Covenant scouts and light infantry is what I would expect.  Granted a mix of skirmishers and Spec Op Elites would have made for a cooler first contact but I wasn't exactly miffed that it didn't kick of with some giant frontal assault on the main Covenant Armada at the Relay.  That would have been militarily bizarre to me.

[Scotty]

There was no point to bringing up the Forerunner, I mean I don't even recall it being a plot point in any of the subsequent games.

What is this I don't even

[StarSlayer]

There was no point to bringing up the Forerunner, I mean I don't even recall it being a plot point in any of the subsequent games.

What is this I don't even

I don't recall Cortana ever mentioning "Hey John guess what?  I already came preloaded with the Forerunner's SQL Database from the giant holographic disco ball hidden under a glacier" as in that whole plot arc in Reach never was mentioned in the subsequent games.

[Scotty]

Gee, you ever think that might be because all of the "subsequent games" came out between three and nine years before Reach did?

[StarSlayer]

Gee, you ever think that might be because all of the "subsequent games" came out between three and nine years before Reach did?

Gee, you ever think Bungie might come up with a story that fits seamlessly and isn't contradictory to the work they already did three to nine years ago instead of a main campaign arc that 'should' have impacted chronologically later games but instead is a plot hole? 

[General Battuta]

Gee, you ever think that might be because all of the "subsequent games" came out between three and nine years before Reach did?

So that makes it even more of a bizarre mistake to bring up this narrative element in Reach.

It's come to my attention that apparently Bungie changed its design methodology for Reach. They set up a series of levels and then built a story around them, instead of vice versa.

* General Battuta facepalms

What's more they spent a great deal of time contradicting their most popular novel, one they themselves referenced many times, in a way that didn't add anything to Reach itself.

[NGTM-1R]

Like I said, the scary thing was that until Reach, the Halo universe blended seamlessly together in novels and games.

Now it doesn't.

[MR_T3D]

Like I said, the scary thing was that until Reach, the Halo universe blended seamlessly together in novels and games.

Now it doesn't.

I just don't think reach is cannon, even relative to the other 4 games.
look at the guns, the extinction of a covie race happens in day-ish between it and Halo CE, the inferior armour MC has relative to noble team and their abilities.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Like I said, the scary thing was that until Reach, the Halo universe blended seamlessly together in novels and games.

Now it doesn't.

I just don't think reach is cannon, even relative to the other 4 games.
look at the guns, the extinction of a covie race happens in day-ish between it and Halo CE, the inferior armour MC has relative to noble team and their abilities.

Meh. It's just a game. Canon schmanon.
The books are irrelevant quite frankly because the games should be self-contained.

People on another website were complaining about up-armoured grunts and so forth. I don't view the new guns and enemies as being contradicting what came before, but rather as replacing it. It's like the Brutes. In Halo 2 the mooks just used plasma rifles and carbines. Then in Halo 3 they got their own side arm, the Spiker. Did they invent this gun between Halo 2 and Halo 3? No, of course not. Rather, I view it as an evolution of the universe. Meaning brutes have been in several different games, but their look, armament and behaviour has evolved. So in other words, to me what changes is not the weaponry but rather the armies as a whole. And in each game the armies are the same, its just that the idea of what those armies are has changed. So the Brutes in Halo 2 should have spikers, had they been created by bungie. But they weren't. So in that iteration they use plasma rifles. And in that way, in Halo CE there were probably up armoured grunts and the like, but because that idea had yet to evolve we simply have what we have.

And besides, different guns does not mean better. The big needler is just a carbine replacement. The covie sniper rifle is inferior to the old one. The DMR is less of a gun than the later assault rifle.

Wow, just played multi with a few mates, big team battle or some ****. Man, I love the jetpack. Big grin

Finished first level of single player, apart from an annoying checkpoint, wasn't much to complain about.

Jetpack sucks man. All it does is make you a target.
I like the holograph. Love seeing people chase after my decoy then I go shoot 'em in the back. One time this guy jet packed up on pinnacle and smoked some guy in the back. I peeked around th corner, stuck him, blew him up then activated my decoy and ran off. He comes over there, looking for revenge, sees me and starts wailing on my decoy while meanwhile I'm halfway across the map.

The dumbest one is that armour lock down. I friggin stick a guy with a plasma, he does armour lock down, and doesn't die. That's some first rate bull**** right there.


Only thing I wish was in Reach was those quad striders from Halo Wars with the beam cannon. Would be cool to see some of those lesser scarabs in action. Forget what they're called. Oh, Locusts.

[General Battuta]

My problem isn't as much with the canon breaks from the books as it was that I thought the writing and level design were inferior to any previous Bungie game.

I mean compare the set pieces battles to Halo 3. Reach is a step down.

[Scotty]

The dumbest one is that armour lock down. I friggin stick a guy with a plasma, he does armour lock down, and doesn't die. That's some first rate bull**** right there.

Dude, that's the whole point of Armor Lock.  Learn how to beat it, and then laugh at their pathetic struggles for a few more seconds of life.

The only thing I wish they'd change about it is the ability to do a complete 180 melee when you pop out of it.  I actually wish you couldn't look around while you were in it.  That'd fix a bunch of stuff wrong with it.  As is, you can use it to look around corners without putting yourself in danger.

[General Battuta]

The dumbest one is that armour lock down. I friggin stick a guy with a plasma, he does armour lock down, and doesn't die. That's some first rate bull**** right there.

Dude, that's the whole point of Armor Lock.  Learn how to beat it, and then laugh at their pathetic struggles for a few more seconds of life.

The only thing I wish they'd change about it is the ability to do a complete 180 melee when you pop out of it.  I actually wish you couldn't look around while you were in it.  That'd fix a bunch of stuff wrong with it.  As is, you can use it to look around corners without putting yourself in danger.

That would neuter it even further.

Armor lock was a beautiful thing in the beta - a skill-sensitive, nuanced technique that made grenade spam survivable and melee battles interesting and strategic. Now it's a vaguely underpowered deathtrap, except in team play or when a Ghost is trying to ram you (where it's awesome.)

If you took away the ability to pop out at any angle, you'd render it utterly impotent.

[Scotty]

Then could we at the very least take away the ability to look around corners with it?

[General Battuta]

Then could we at the very least take away the ability to look around corners with it?

If they gave it back the melee EMP ability, maybe. 

[StarSlayer]

Jet Pack seems useful in firefight.  I still like sprint the best especially with a DMR and M45, but jump pack has saved my bacon on occasion when a beam saber wielding Elite or Hammer lugging Brute comes charging up on me.  It adds a level of tactical mobility plus descending upon a Grunt pile from the heavens dealing righteous wrath with a gravity hammer is obnoxiously fun.

[Akalabeth Angel]

The dumbest one is that armour lock down. I friggin stick a guy with a plasma, he does armour lock down, and doesn't die. That's some first rate bull**** right there.

Dude, that's the whole point of Armor Lock.  Learn how to beat it, and then laugh at their pathetic struggles for a few more seconds of life.

Meh, armour lock should make you invulnerable to incoming fire, not invulnerable to fire you've already been hit with. My favourite weapon in any halo game has always been the plasma grenade, so when some power complete neuters it I don't much care for it of course. Thankfully very few people play with Armour lock it seems.

Jet Pack seems useful in firefight.  I still like sprint the best especially with a DMR and M45, but jump pack has saved my bacon on occasion when a beam saber wielding Elite or Hammer lugging Brute comes charging up on me.  It adds a level of tactical mobility plus descending upon a Grunt pile from the heavens dealing righteous wrath with a gravity hammer is obnoxiously fun.

Yes I found the jump pack a lot more useful in the campaign. I suppose maybe the problem with the basic multi game is that people just do a huge leap in the middle of the map with no cover, and everyone automatically shoots them of course. When the pack is probably best for short leaps onto higher levels, or, on some levels, saving your ass when you fall off like a dork.


I wish people would quit picking Infection or stupid SWAT or worst of all Snipers. Infection's the worst though, so friggin boring and the zombies ALWAYS win, at least in my experience.

[General Battuta]

Well yes the zombies always win, that's how the game ends. The point is to kill as many as you can first.

I agree that SWAT and Infection really need their own playlist, though.

[Akalabeth Angel]

My problem isn't as much with the canon breaks from the books as it was that I thought the writing and level design were inferior to any previous Bungie game.

I mean compare the set pieces battles to Halo 3. Reach is a step down.

You mean such as the battle against the two Scarabs when you're taking out the Prophet?

It probably is, there aren't too many large battles. Replaying it on Legendary the one thing I do like is when aiding Sword base you see enemy Serephims or whatever streaking in and hitting the base (or at least I think they are, never looked too hard).

But the "big battle" such as it was, the bit with the charge of the light brigade was pretty friggin stupid. I think I actually saw a few scorpions at the starting over head shot, but by the end it's a bunch of friggin dune buggies charging across an open field towards fortified positions. Each buggy with only like three friggin guys in it. Who does that?

The whole game for me was pretty much "why am I getting my ass killed in this vehicle? Doesn't this stupid army know about closed crew compartments?" Even the friggin Rail Gun doesn't have an armoured operator's compartment. The closest you can really get to big battles in Halo is in Halo Wars I think. Especially when it's like 3 vs 3 multi team battle. Get some huge crap goin on.